Stein/Fischer: Toronto willing to deal RJ Barrett, IQ, Poeltl for Significant Upgrades // #9 Available

[ForeverTFC]

But he hasn't, and that's my point. That's why I said same or worse, cause I was trying to not be overly negative about it.

Last 100+ games in NYC he averaged about 59% TS%, in his total time with us, he's averaged about a little under 57% TS%. So he's gotten noticeably worse with a marginal increase to USG% 22% vs 25%. His TOV% is up 10% vs 9%. His AST% rate is up, as is RJ's, because they have both been asked to handle the ball more due to injuries, our team wide AST/g are identical this year vs last, 28.5 vs 28.5. Meanwhile Scotties AST% has marginally increased, despite his AST/g actually dropping from 6.1 to 5.8. All this means is that someone has to make the pass to a scoring player in a pass heavy offence.

I'm not trying to say IQ is awful or anything, but nothing he has done since being here would qualify as "seriously good". At best, he's stagnated, but realistically (due to injuries or otherwise) has gotten demonstrably worse. If people want to say he's played about as expected and has been injured so they expect better next season, that's completely reasonable and I can get behind it, but I don't see any purpose in gassing him up and lying about objective results.

I don’t know why you’re picking timelines to fit a narrative. Just look at the seasons.

2022/2023 - .578 TS
2023/2024 - .577 TS
2024/2025 - .570 TS
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/q/quickim01.html

And that’s with him becoming a full time PG. PGs have a lower league average TS vs SGs. He’s 200bps above league average efficiency at PG with high volume and he’s doing it on a team with no shooting.

[Zeno]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

It is the logical place for him because he’s in the East so the Suns wouldn’t’ be helping teams they would in theory hope to beat to (dream to) beat out in playoff positioning and they are they most needy of KD given their rudderless situation. The only barrier is Riley tries to get assets for near zero. But of KD’s preferred destinations they are the most likely unless Houston for some reason gives up future Suns draft capital.

[tsherkin]

PG's have a 55.8 TS%, so he's still above average for his position as a Raptor.

True... but not as helpful as it might be to us in context, given the deplorable state of our offense. And, as you increase volume, positional average is less relevant, because you begin to support to large a proportion of team offense for that to matter.

IQ in 27 games as a starter for the Knicks put up 21.7 ppg 5 rpg and 4.9 apg on 58.9 TS%. So, he was actually more efficient as a starter than he was as the so called spark plug off the bench. In general, he's played better as a starter than he has as a bench player.

I wouldn't say "in general," so much as "in 2024." And that was primarily on the basis of setting a career-high in 3pt shooting (39.5%) as anything. He also set his career-high in 3pt volume during his partial season with us, and shot a similar volume this year. And a career-high in the RA. He was also useless from 3-23 feet.

So I don't know how much you want to make of that sample.

He's a useful player. His shooting is of particular value, so being cavalier with trading him (IF we trade him) would be a mistake. There, I agree.

[Duffman100]

But he hasn't, and that's my point. That's why I said same or worse, cause I was trying to not be overly negative about it.

Last 100+ games in NYC he averaged about 59% TS%, in his total time with us, he's averaged about a little under 57% TS%. So he's gotten noticeably worse with a marginal increase to USG% 22% vs 25%. His TOV% is up 10% vs 9%. His AST% rate is up, as is RJ's, because they have both been asked to handle the ball more due to injuries, our team wide AST/g are identical this year vs last, 28.5 vs 28.5. Meanwhile Scotties AST% has marginally increased, despite his AST/g actually dropping from 6.1 to 5.8. All this means is that someone has to make the pass to a scoring player in a pass heavy offence.

I'm not trying to say IQ is awful or anything, but nothing he has done since being here would qualify as "seriously good". At best, he's stagnated, but realistically (due to injuries or otherwise) has gotten demonstrably worse. If people want to say he's played about as expected and has been injured so they expect better next season, that's completely reasonable and I can get behind it, but I don't see any purpose in gassing him up and lying about objective results.

I don’t know why you’re picking timelines to fit a narrative. Just look at the seasons.

2022/2023 - .578 TS
2023/2024 - .577 TS
2024/2025 - .570 TS
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/q/quickim01.html

And that’s with him becoming a full time PG. PGs have a lower league average TS vs SGs. He’s 200bps above league average efficiency at PG with high volume and he’s doing it on a team with no shooting.

Wait...

Did he fault him for his turnover rate going up but dismissed his assist rate going up because he was asked to handle the ball more.

[YogurtProducer]

But he hasn't, and that's my point. That's why I said same or worse, cause I was trying to not be overly negative about it.

Last 100+ games in NYC he averaged about 59% TS%, in his total time with us, he's averaged about a little under 57% TS%. So he's gotten noticeably worse with a marginal increase to USG% 22% vs 25%. His TOV% is up 10% vs 9%. His AST% rate is up, as is RJ's, because they have both been asked to handle the ball more due to injuries, our team wide AST/g are identical this year vs last, 28.5 vs 28.5. Meanwhile Scotties AST% has marginally increased, despite his AST/g actually dropping from 6.1 to 5.8. All this means is that someone has to make the pass to a scoring player in a pass heavy offence.

I'm not trying to say IQ is awful or anything, but nothing he has done since being here would qualify as "seriously good". At best, he's stagnated, but realistically (due to injuries or otherwise) has gotten demonstrably worse. If people want to say he's played about as expected and has been injured so they expect better next season, that's completely reasonable and I can get behind it, but I don't see any purpose in gassing him up and lying about objective results.

I don’t know why you’re picking timelines to fit a narrative. Just look at the seasons.

2022/2023 - .578 TS
2023/2024 - .577 TS
2024/2025 - .570 TS
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/q/quickim01.html

And that’s with him becoming a full time PG. PGs have a lower league average TS vs SGs. He’s 200bps above league average efficiency at PG with high volume and he’s doing it on a team with no shooting.

Wait...

Did he fault him for his turnover rate going up but dismissed his assist rate going up because he was asked to handle the ball more.

You didn’t expect an unbiased opinion, did you?

People using league average TS% as a barometer also bothers the hell out of me.

[djsunyc]

hey guys. anybody know a store that sell F5 keys?

[Merit]

koc has no real connections

so i listened to it. it was esfander berhami that said it. he's a local raptors podcaster who has zero connections. then later in the conversation koc just re-iterated what esfander said.

while there may be pressure, i don't think the local guys would know about it.

The RR guys definitely have connections to the Raptors. But whether this is sourced or really just more of the same speculation about Masai re his job security is up in the air.

It’s opinion/speculation based on context. Nothing is firmly known.

[niQ]

hey guys. anybody know a store that sell F5 keys?

Try Future Shop.

[GLF]

I don’t know why you’re picking timelines to fit a narrative. Just look at the seasons.

2022/2023 - .578 TS
2023/2024 - .577 TS
2024/2025 - .570 TS
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/q/quickim01.html

And that’s with him becoming a full time PG. PGs have a lower league average TS vs SGs. He’s 200bps above league average efficiency at PG with high volume and he’s doing it on a team with no shooting.

Wait...

Did he fault him for his turnover rate going up but dismissed his assist rate going up because he was asked to handle the ball more.

You didn’t expect an unbiased opinion, did you?

People using league average TS% as a barometer also bothers the hell out of me.

Why do you hate TS% as a barometer? I agree btw but I just wanted to see if our reasoning is the same lol

[Duffman100]

Wait...

Did he fault him for his turnover rate going up but dismissed his assist rate going up because he was asked to handle the ball more.

You didn’t expect an unbiased opinion, did you?

People using league average TS% as a barometer also bothers the hell out of me.

Why do you hate TS% as a barometer? I agree btw but I just wanted to see if our reasoning is the same lol

League average vs positional.

You don't want to compare PGs to centres

[Potential]

Now that I think of it Miami would actually be pretty cool with Herro and Bam. Get a PG and solid 3 and d role players and they can make another run to The Finals

[Pointgod]

From the second the ink dried, but having two players that dont fit and getting rid of one that does, makes no sense at all.

And those of us that wanted to trade OG for a massive pick package were brow beaten that Masai got the best package

And by massive you mean 3 crap Knick picks that were not even all guaranteed 1sts.

There was interest in OG beyond the Knicks if we hadn’t waited until the last minute to trade him.

[MoneyBall]

Now that I think of it Miami would actually be pretty cool with Herro and Bam. Get a PG and solid 3 and d role players and they can make another run to The Finals

Who's going the other way? Miami looks depleted.

[PhilBlackson]

Now that I think of it Miami would actually be pretty cool with Herro and Bam. Get a PG and solid 3 and d role players and they can make another run to The Finals

They also would still seem very beatable imo, he’s still an injury risk and should bring back some viewership to the Eastern Conference so it’s not the worst thing to happen either.

[PhilBlackson]

Now that I think of it Miami would actually be pretty cool with Herro and Bam. Get a PG and solid 3 and d role players and they can make another run to The Finals

Who's going the other way? Miami looks depleted.

The sticking point has been the inclusion of Kel’El Ware into the trade. That happens and I think it’s a done deal.

[MoneyBall]

hey guys. anybody know a store that sell F5 keys?

Try Future Shop.

More like Past Shop

[tsherkin]

People using league average TS% as a barometer also bothers the hell out of me.

There are pros and cons to using positional average.

Good scorers score above league average.

Decent scorers score at league average.

This isn't a new thing. There is some threshold of volume where you can tolerate a degree of inefficient, but as that volume load rises and you start pissing away more possessions per game, you're damaging your overall capability.

There are a bunch of sliding-scale variables which can, at least over a regular season, change tolerance for this. Stuff like offensive rebounding and ball protection come to mind. There is a middle space between low volume and high volume where it's a little fuzzier.

Take Quickley, for example. He's a 13-15 ish FGA/g player over his different roles these past two seasons. He's a league-average efficiency scorer at that volume. That's not bad. Him being like 1.5 to 2% above positional average is interesting...

But that's more of a comment on why it's a bad idea to run volume through shorter guys who aren't exceptional than it is a reason for us to really commend him as a volume scoring option. That's where I find myself more lukewarm on the production as opposed to singing his praises (not that you were doing so, Yogurt, obviously).

There is also something to be said for what good shooting does for a team. So a guy who can bomb 37+% from 3 ATB has some value, within reasonable volume, as far as his impact on defensive attention for his teammates. That becomes even more important if he's a decent playmaker; and Quick has been what, a 6-7 apg player for us so far? That's pretty good. Not staggering, but pretty good, especially at the 10 - 10.5% TOV he's averaged for us. He isn't a savant, but he's surely helpful.

Questions of efficiency depend pretty heavily on context. Ochai and Battle are 59, 60% TS players... but no one sane is really looking at them to significantly push volume, because they're primarily C+S 3pt shooters who need setup from other players. They're efficient roleplayers, which is fine.

One of the other major variables to efficiency questions is... "do you have a really good volume scorer as your baseplate?"

This one... we have to wait to find out. Do we get 22-25 Ingram, who scores 21-25 ppg at something like -1% to +0% rTS, or do we get AS Ingram, who was around +2%?

If we get +2% rTS in volume from Ingram, then having a few guys hovering around league average is far less problematic. If we have all of our volume guys at or beneath league average, it's going to make fielding a competitive offense quite difficult. We were, remember, 25th in the league in team scoring efficiency (at 55.3%). We need SOMEONE to drive that up for us, and that leaves 55.3% or so about break-even for improving upon what we were doing last year (again, minding that team offense isn't just pure efficiency, la la la).

So there is merit to considering league-average TS%, especially as volume responsibility rises in a given player. It isn't the ONLY consideration, but it's a useful starting point, and positional average has its own flaws.

[ArthurVandelay]

Now that I think of it Miami would actually be pretty cool with Herro and Bam. Get a PG and solid 3 and d role players and they can make another run to The Finals

Who's going the other way? Miami looks depleted.

Wiggins Ware Jovic #20 are their assets

Rozier and SLO-Mo dead weight rerouted elsewhere

[ArthurVandelay]

Now that I think of it Miami would actually be pretty cool with Herro and Bam. Get a PG and solid 3 and d role players and they can make another run to The Finals

Who's going the other way? Miami looks depleted.

The sticking point has been the inclusion of Kel’El Ware into the trade. That happens and I think it’s a done deal.

I’m hoping PHX is in win now mode and prefers Poeltl over Ware

I’d take Rozier to get Ware and Jovic

[LoveMyRaps]

Shams is obviously a KD mouthpiece.