Political Roundtable Part XVII

[gtn130]

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This is probably not being talked about enough. Trump-appointed FBI Director threatens to resign because the independence of the FBI is being attacked by Trump and Sessions.

SD20 and Nate are cool with this btw.

[dckingsfan]

See, this is what I've been saying about the two parties for a long time. The Republican party's problem is its business model is hypocrisy - since they can't admit out loud that they just represent rich people, they have to pretend they represent some other group that is easily fooled, mainly evangelicals and non-college educated old white people. No offense intended, Popper.

The Democrats' problem is they are a poorly cobbled together coalition of minority issues - marijuana legalization, african american oppression, lgbtqetc. issues, abortion/women's rights (which only a minority of women are interested in), none of whom really give a crap about each other. So their business model is incompetence, which we've seen a great example of today. They can't hold together as a group. They're easily divided.

I think Brooks makes your point better on the Ds
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/22/opinion/democrats-daca-shutdown.html

[Zonkerbl]

See, this is what I've been saying about the two parties for a long time. The Republican party's problem is its business model is hypocrisy - since they can't admit out loud that they just represent rich people, they have to pretend they represent some other group that is easily fooled, mainly evangelicals and non-college educated old white people. No offense intended, Popper.

The Democrats' problem is they are a poorly cobbled together coalition of minority issues - marijuana legalization, african american oppression, lgbtqetc. issues, abortion/women's rights (which only a minority of women are interested in), none of whom really give a crap about each other. So their business model is incompetence, which we've seen a great example of today. They can't hold together as a group. They're easily divided.

I think Brooks makes your point better on the Ds
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/22/opinion/democrats-daca-shutdown.html

Um, not really. The times article is a hate piece, my post is a fact piece.

Rachel Maddow said something really interesting in an interview with Ezra Klein. *She doesn't read opinion pieces anymore.* Since I read that I started dividing out editorials vs. straight up reporting in my mind and it makes staying sane a lot easier. You really don't learn anything at all from opinion pieces. You lose nothing by not reading them.

[gtn130]

The Democrats' problem is they are a poorly cobbled together coalition of minority issues - marijuana legalization, african american oppression, lgbtqetc. issues, abortion/women's rights (which only a minority of women are interested in), none of whom really give a crap about each other. So their business model is incompetence, which we've seen a great example of today. They can't hold together as a group. They're easily divided.

Man, don't think I agree with this at all. The 'issues' the Democrats find themselves campaigning on are almost entirely a reaction to the reactionary, regressive bullsh*t the GOP peddles.

I spoke to some derper one time who said something like, "the GOP has better things to worry about than who is using which bathroom." Funny thing about that is that the GOP are the ones proposing bathroom bills!

I think that back and forth crystalizes what I'm getting at here. The Democrats are pigeonholed into these social issues because the other party is harassing minorities and other communities they don't like. Republicans like to say idiotic things like "the Dems are just about identity politics herp derp!" when the last time I checked Trump ran on deporting Muslims and building a wall to keep out Mexicans. But yeah, the Dems are the ones playing identity politics!

And the Democrats were unified on shutting down the government. The GOP controls all three branches and can't pass legislation because they have things like the Freedom Caucus and other right wing lunatics hijacking the party. If the Democrats are ever in power again they'll be able to pass whatever they want with minimal in-fighting.

[dckingsfan]

I think Brooks makes your point better on the Ds
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/22/opinion/democrats-daca-shutdown.html

Um, not really. The times article is a hate piece, my post is a fact piece.

Not really a hate piece - more like a "how are Ds going to do it to themselves again" piece. You are kind of just waiting until the do something silly. A long-term shutdown of the government over DACA would have been one of those - "what are they thinking" issues.

And I think he nailed it with:

But there are some of us who are uncomfortable with the whole identity-politics drill. We believe that while racism is the central stain on American history, racial conflict is not inevitable. By reducing inequalities, by integrating daily life, we can eventually make our common humanity more salient and our racial difference less so. We believe that America has already made strides in this direction and that it’s everyone’s responsibility to make racial diversity a creative spark and not a source of permanent hostility.

One of these days some party should pay attention to us folks.

[Zonkerbl]

This is all wishful thinking. The facts are the Republican party is a highly disciplined machine with a unified purpose that is so robust to dissent that not even Trump's insane incompetence can bring it down. The Republicans have ten times the discipline the Dems have and that's why Republicans are running this country despite being in the minority. Dems have to stop making excuses and get their act together.

[gtn130]

This is all wishful thinking. The facts are the Republican party is a highly disciplined machine with a unified purpose that is so robust to dissent that not even Trump's insane incompetence can bring it down. The Republicans have ten times the discipline the Dems have and that's why Republicans are running this country despite being in the minority. Dems have to stop making excuses and get their act together.

This is laughable. There will be political realignment in the near future, and it will largely be brought on by the GOP's race to the bottom. Fear-mongering, exploiting racial animus, targeting the dumbest voters in society - those things are not long-term strategies.

This is not a defense of the Democrats. It's really just about the GOP. They have no long-term strategy or ability to win over voters who are younger than ~45 years old.

[gtn130]

You guys are nuts if you think the GOP is some well-oiled machine. Their legislative platform is built around pleasing their donors, destroying Obama's legacy and making symbolic gestures of hatred toward groups they don't like.

Remind me again why they couldn't repeal ACA?

[FAH1223]

This is all wishful thinking. The facts are the Republican party is a highly disciplined machine with a unified purpose that is so robust to dissent that not even Trump's insane incompetence can bring it down. The Republicans have ten times the discipline the Dems have and that's why Republicans are running this country despite being in the minority. Dems have to stop making excuses and get their act together.

They are running this country because

1. They gerry mandered the hell out of states and got state houses, then won the House in 2010 and 2014.

2. Citizens United opening more flood gates of their donors

3. The Dems have sucked for 9 years though it looks like the base is energized and the progressives have a much bigger voice since Occupy, Fight for 15, Bernie's insurgent run, and the Trump effect.

4. Jimmy Carter in 1977 had higher majorities in Congress than Trump has right now. While he accomplished more than Trump probably will accomplish, He also entered the presidency after liberal Democrats gained dozens of seats in the 1974 post-Watergate midterms and were poised and ready to pass major, transformative legislation. There was wide support in the party — including from Carter — for single-payer health care, and while ultimate passage was unlikely, the odds of some kind of universal coverage passing were significant; Nixon, after all, had put out a plan not unlike the one that would become the Affordable Care Act three decades later. Trump's legacy will be his packing of the courts.

There's cracks in the GOP's armor. I thought they had a permanent majority on things but with some life in the Dems... I think things may change later this year and I'm very skeptical because of how crappy the Dems have been. But I think there are some good candidates rising up to run for office at all levels willing to take on power whether it is financial, corporate, or taming the military industrial complex.

[dckingsfan]

You guys are nuts if you think the GOP is some well-oiled machine. Their legislative platform is built around pleasing their donors, destroying Obama's legacy and making symbolic gestures of hatred toward groups they don't like.

Remind me again why they couldn't repeal ACA?

If it is a comparison to Ds past and Rs past - yeah, the Rs were the well-oiled machine.

Did you see what tax carveouts ended up in the continuing resolution? What happened to the individual mandate? They have essentially crippled the ACA without the mess that points a finger at them.

[gtn130]

You guys are nuts if you think the GOP is some well-oiled machine. Their legislative platform is built around pleasing their donors, destroying Obama's legacy and making symbolic gestures of hatred toward groups they don't like.

Remind me again why they couldn't repeal ACA?

If it is a comparison to Ds past and Rs past - yeah, the Rs were the well-oiled machine.

Did you see what tax carveouts ended up in the continuing resolution? What happened to the individual mandate? They have essentially crippled the ACA without the mess that points a finger at them.

The ACA repeal effort was an unmitigated disaster for the GOP. They wanted to repeal ACA largely for the narrative. Instead it blew up in their faces as they tried to make good on a 'promise' that was fundamentally unpopular and exposed how specious their claims were about Obamacare over the last 5+ years.

They did not need a single Democratic vote to repeal ACA and they failed. That's a really bad look for them.

This should go without saying, but if the midterms were today, the GOP gets absolutely decimated. That is not a hallmark of a good strategy!

[Zonkerbl]

But what political penalty are they paying for their failure? They have Trump's base eating out of their hand, swallowing up any narrative they come up with. Their propaganda game is grandmaster level.

Trump and the Republicans were arguably as guilty of the shutdown as anyone. But look at the headlines today - universally blaming the Dems for shutting the government down and then caving in three days. How can you look at that and think of anything but absolute control over the perception of the truth by the GOP?

[gtn130]

But what political penalty are they paying for their failure? They have Trump's base eating out of their hand, swallowing up any narrative they come up with. Their propaganda game is grandmaster level.

Look at midterm polling, man. Look at what happened in the VA election. Look at the margins for the special elections that have already happened - Dems haven't won them, but they've outperformed historical margins by double digits.

[dckingsfan]

Two things... thing one: Trump sucks. thing two: that doesn't mean the Ds have their act together.

[stilldropin20]

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This is probably not being talked about enough. Trump-appointed FBI Director threatens to resign because the independence of the FBI is being attacked by Trump and Sessions.

SD20 and Nate are cool with this btw.

the entire russian collusiongate narrative was born directly out of the minds of 4-5 rogues DOJ/FBI officials/agents at the top. At this point we have direct evidence. It's a fact. We have the actual text messages. we are recovering more that were deleted.

Russian collusion gate was sold to the main stream media (who ran with it) from some of the highest members of the FBI. The goal was to impeach trump if he won. That is how sad the democrats played their cards this time around.

Trump wants to clean up his FBI. And he should want to clean it up, no? FBI is not suppose to play politics. nor spy on political opponents. Nor make up/investigate completely false charges. At this point collusion is almost completely out of the narrative. Peter Strzok said so in a text in May 2017<--that was after 6 months of investigating it!!! From a completely biased perspective!! This is the guy who cooked up the trail to begin with.

[stilldropin20]

I will add that CNN has slowly realized that they have been duped by Obama holdovers and democrats. I have slowly watched CNN slightly change their tune over the past year. I mean CNN ran with collusion every single day. all day long. 17-18 hours per day for over 1 year. I mean...can you imagine that???? I could not even imagine being dumb enough to fall for that narrative.

I mean how stupid would you have to be to fall for that????? We are talking sub 75 level IQ here. Or just willfully being ignorant. We had leaks every single day of every thing. And no leak ever gets produced that ties trump to colluding with russians? Even with rogue FBI agents llike Strzok and Mccabe desperate to dig something up?? Instead what we find is texts from Strzok himself in May 2017 that "there is no there there."

I mean shakespeare wrote about this 500 years ago. when the lady doth protest too much you should know. YOU SHOULD KNOW. that it is likely some kind of smoke screen.

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[stilldropin20]

If true, get rudy now. its time.

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[stilldropin20]

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[stilldropin20]

Harris Faulkner is ON it!!!!!

And. here. we GOOOOOOOO!!!!

2 words: Rudy guilini. NOW!!!!

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[stilldropin20]

meanwhile. tax reform just keeps reaping rewards.

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