2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[Doctor MJ]

in fairness bucks have not had their core together too many games (like many other teams to be fairer)

but they are like 20-4 in games where giannis, jrue, middleton all play which is more in Line with the dominance we would expect

Okay, but do you understand that's not really a rebuttal against the stats I'm mentioning? Were I only listing the respective stars' individual raw +/- it would be, but I'm pointing out separation from teammates in the raw, and then pointing to RAPM which specifically adjusts for teammates.

Not saying the data is the end-all be-all, only that I think the point still stands.

i was not clear

what i wanted to say is that their dominance when fully healthy may be why people are willing to excuse bucks ubderwhelming season in giannis mvp case

Fair enough, and I’m not saying folks are crazy for picking Giannis.


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[Doctor MJ]

in fairness bucks have not had their core together too many games (like many other teams to be fairer)

but they are like 20-4 in games where giannis, jrue, middleton all play which is more in Line with the dominance we would expect

Okay, but do you understand that's not really a rebuttal against the stats I'm mentioning? Were I only listing the respective stars' individual raw +/- it would be, but I'm pointing out separation from teammates in the raw, and then pointing to RAPM which specifically adjusts for teammates.

Not saying the data is the end-all be-all, only that I think the point still stands.

According to Bball-Index's Luck-Adjusted RAPM

Giannis: 2.30
Steph: 2.21

By NBA Shot Charts Luck-Adjusted RAPM

Steph: 2.52
Giannis: 1.22

By other luck-adjusted impact metrics I listed earlier, Giannis comes out ahead.

I think LA-RAPM is a reasonable stat to prefer over RAPM but I’m cautious. My understand is that part of what they consider luck is how well teammates shoot 3’s with the player in the court compared to without. This is not something I’d consider an inherently lucky thing the way we’d expect free throws to be, and especially in Curry’s case.


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[70sFan]

Have you seen Ben's collaboration with NBA? They just posted his breakdown of Jokic offensive game. It's so nice that he finally got recognition!

The video itself is amazing, short but shows perfectly why Jokic is such an amazing offensive player.

[Peregrine01]

Have you seen Ben's collaboration with NBA? They just posted his breakdown of Jokic offensive game. It's so nice that he finally got recognition!

The video itself is amazing, short but shows perfectly why Jokic is such an amazing offensive player.

Came right online to post this and saw that you got here first.

Super happy for Ben, who I think has the best NBA analysis for posterity on the internet. Great to see him AND Jokic get the recognition they deserve!

[Clyde Frazier]

Have you seen Ben's collaboration with NBA? They just posted his breakdown of Jokic offensive game. It's so nice that he finally got recognition!

The video itself is amazing, short but shows perfectly why Jokic is such an amazing offensive player.

Read on Twitter

So cool! Happy for him.

[eminence]

Very cool for Ben.

In case you still scroll here every once in awhile, big congrats man!

[falcolombardi]

wonder if this will give ben a bigger viewing base going forward, as much as í disagree some of his takes the man still is a really great content creator thst kind of hoy got me into analizing basketball more in depth (alongside real gm)

in other news, it seems like morey is gonna play the dangerous "punt on the season and wait for harden next year" gambit

a dangerous play considering harden age, embiid health and the wildness of free agency

if harden doesnt come sixers are toast, if he comes but embiid is unhealthy next season ir harden regresses further with age they are also toast

for embiid sake, hope it works out for sixers

[Doctor MJ]

Have you seen Ben's collaboration with NBA? They just posted his breakdown of Jokic offensive game. It's so nice that he finally got recognition!

The video itself is amazing, short but shows perfectly why Jokic is such an amazing offensive player.

Love the positive shout outs Ben's getting for this.

As you know, but probably most don't fully know, this is a really big deal for Ben because of the partnership with the NBA. The NBA, like most mega-organizations tends to first look at people who make use of their content as IP threats, and then some graduate to partners. Typically a lot easier to reach partnership status when you are an established corporation, rather than an indie artist like Ben is. With this video, we're explicitly seeing the NBA appreciate what Ben does, and I'm very excited for this.

And yeah, beautiful work from Ben here. As with his Greatest Peaks series, it's not just about how good the player is, but how jaw-dropping the player is when you zoom in on the little details. To me this ranks up there with his work on Bird & Hakeem - my favorite of those videos - a testament both to Ben and to Jokic, who just has such an incredible basketball brain.Shorter than those of course, but he packed a lot in those minutes.

[eminence]

A) I switched back to a Utah logo to avoid confusing folks in the T&T board

B) Wiggins as an all-star starter is really not great (maybe fringe on the team, though I'd lean towards no), though I guess I don't get too bothered by the fans driving an event for fans. If this was All-NBA or something it'd be ridiculous.

[RCM88x]

Is Wiggins the worst player/season to ever be an All-Star starter?

Thinking there might be some guys in the 2000s East who'd be worse but don't know for sure.

[Fadeaway_J]

Oh good lord.

[parsnips33]

I honestly feel bad for Wiggins. This all-star selection is going to be treated as a punchline, deservedly so

But he's clearly worked a lot on his game and I genuinely think he's improved his game in ways I had little hope for. Happy to see him get some recognition, even like this

[Texas Chuck]

Is Wiggins the worst player/season to ever be an All-Star starter?

Thinking there might be some guys in the 2000s East who'd be worse but don't know for sure.

AC Green started an all-star game during Showtime I'm almost certain(though small chance I've confused him with Rambis, but I think one of them did?) Fine player but not better than current Wiggins.

[Texas Chuck]

oh and Wiggins owes nobody any apologies. Say what you want about him not living up to being 1st overall in front of Embiid, but he plays every night and in Golden State has proven so many of us wrong who were convinced he didn't care about team basketball in any fashion. He's a solid pro now. And if the fans want to show him some love as the 3rd best player on a really good team, doesn't bother me and I'm certainly not going to meme Wiggins. Good on him.

[yoyoboy]

Honestly, I'm not on board with the idea that it's alright for the fans to vote in whoever they want because it's ultimately a showcase for the fans.

It's important to the players. If a guy is having a great season, he deserves to be recognized for it, and it's possible that guy may never get the opportunity again in his career so it would suck to be snubbed. Also, like it or not, after players' careers are finished, All-Star appearances are something that's brought up when talking about their legacies. Sure, that's not something we discuss much or care about in our small corner of the internet. But a whole lot of other people outside of here do, and so it's clearly not just some meaningless opportunity to play an exhibition for the fans. If a guy like Fred VanVleet makes the ASG this season, a lot of people will look at him a lot differently than if he never made one at all, and I guarantee it's something that would mean a lot to him because he's someone who could never have a chance to do it again. Same goes for Mike Conley if he had ever made one. And I think Jarrett Allen this year could potentially have the best opportunity of his career this year.

[Texas Chuck]

Honestly, I'm not on board with the idea that it's alright for the fans to vote in whoever they want because it's ultimately a showcase for the fans.

It's important to the players. If a guy is having a great season, he deserves to be recognized for it, and it's possible that guy may never get the opportunity again in his career so it would suck to be snubbed. Also, like it or not, after players' careers are finished, All-Star appearances are something that's brought up when talking about their legacies. Sure, that's not something we discuss much or care about in our small corner of the internet. But a whole lot of other people outside of here do, and so it's clearly not just some meaningless opportunity to play an exhibition for the fans. If a guy like Fred VanVleet makes the ASG this season, a lot of people will look at him a lot differently than if he never made one at all, and I guarantee it's something that would mean a lot to him because he's someone who could never have a chance to do it again. Same goes for Mike Conley if he had ever made one. And I think Jarrett Allen this year could potentially have the best opportunity of his career this year.

There are still 10 spots in each conference for players to get in solely on merits. And if only 1 of the 10 starters is in on something other than merit, I'm not sure its that big of a deal and something I as the NBA would want to take away from my customers.

I honestly stopped caring about the all-star game at least 25 years ago, but its the NBA's biggest fan event. The whole weekend is about the fans. I think I'm too cool because I'm into "real" basketball lol. But all-star weekend is known as the black super bowl for a reason. And kids still love all of it, dunk contest, the game, etc....


Now no doubt it means something to the players. But I don't think the NBA should be thinking in those terms. It would be one thing if you never gave fans a voice, but they've already not made it exclusively about the fans after it had been for a long time. Taking it away because people are mad about a guy who certainly isn't the least deserving all-star starter we've ever had doesn't make sense.

I never heard this much noise when a star who was injured most of the first half of the season takes a spot away from a guy.

[Texas Chuck]

oh and if we are bitching about fans we need to look at the votes for Ben Simmons and Grayson Allen to be all-starters by players.

[Fadeaway_J]

Honestly, I'm not on board with the idea that it's alright for the fans to vote in whoever they want because it's ultimately a showcase for the fans.

It's important to the players. If a guy is having a great season, he deserves to be recognized for it, and it's possible that guy may never get the opportunity again in his career so it would suck to be snubbed. Also, like it or not, after players' careers are finished, All-Star appearances are something that's brought up when talking about their legacies. Sure, that's not something we discuss much or care about in our small corner of the internet. But a whole lot of other people outside of here do, and so it's clearly not just some meaningless opportunity to play an exhibition for the fans. If a guy like Fred VanVleet makes the ASG this season, a lot of people will look at him a lot differently than if he never made one at all, and I guarantee it's something that would mean a lot to him because he's someone who could never have a chance to do it again. Same goes for Mike Conley if he had ever made one. And I think Jarrett Allen this year could potentially have the best opportunity of his career this year.

I also suspect the "fans" would still watch the game even if they appointed a committee of RealGM posters to select the teams.

[falcolombardi]

wiggins probably deserved borderline all star consideration tbh, not a much worse player than, lets say, 2009 mo williams

the inusual part is that he is making it as a starter and not as a injury replacement, but is not unheard of for players of his level to make the all star once if the circunstances align

[falcolombardi]

oh and if we are bitching about fans we need to look at the votes for Ben Simmons and Grayson Allen to be all-starters by players. Or the media casting as many votes for Klay Thompson as Luka Doncic.

Fans at least are honest about what they are doing. Those who are supposed to know better aren't doing much better.

in fairness only 2 players voted for simmons, that is the nba equivalent of the people who vote for kanye west in usa elections

the media voting for klay is much more damning than 2 players out of 500 voting ben as a troll vote, but again i am low on the average media voter when people like Stephen a smith or skip bayless are voters