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Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs

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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#1181 » by bigfoot » Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:12 am

Kerrsed wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:
LMAO, i just came here to post that.

I already put in my two cents.

I respectfully declined when in reality i wanted to shout HELL F'N NO!!!

Funny to see people from other teams chime in that the Suns would do it in a heartbeat.


Thanks Kerrsed. That stupidity over there got me a warning. Next time I'll watch what forum I'm in before I post a funny image.


Yeah, many boards dont tolerate just image posts. Its against the rules.

Luckily here on our board, im the mod and also a big proponent that an image is worth a thousand words.


So if wrote a big long explanation about why Len for Noah stinks and then added this picture at the end it would be okay?

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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#1182 » by Kerrsed » Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:15 am

bigfoot wrote:So if wrote a big long explanation about why Len for Noah stinks and then added this picture at the end it would be okay?

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Most likely, yes.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#1183 » by carey » Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:22 am

Kerrsed wrote: Luckily here on our board, im the mod and also a big proponent that an image is worth a thousand words.


The phrase "A picture is worth a thousand words" is about 100 years old. I don't think they had lame memes in mind.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#1184 » by batsmasher » Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:07 am

PSA: Just because it's been a day since the last trade suggestion doesn't mean you need to make a new one. This is starting to become the "look what I got to work in the trade machine" thread. It would help improve the quality of discussion too.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#1185 » by DirtyDez » Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:16 am

SF88 wrote:What do you guys think about this trade?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1367404


The trade board sucks. Everyone is a flaming homer and most threads turn into a bitch fest.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#1186 » by BurningHeart » Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:53 am

The same people who justified signing Bledsoe because "the cap's going up anyway" are the same ones worried about overpaying Goran Dragic. It doesnt make sense. If "the cap is going up anyway" then it doesn't matter if we give Dragic 5/80.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#1187 » by NaturalBuns » Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:27 am

SF88 wrote:What do you guys think about this trade?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1367404



Noah would just have the same role as Len.
It's not really worth it.
oldscho0led wrote:Baseball is all about momentum. Pirates will carry their winning ways and beat Giants in the Wildcard.

A's over Royals. Lester and experience will prove that he's worth the trade.

Tigers winning it all. Tigers are, imo, peaking at the right time.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#1188 » by Revived » Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:07 am

Zelaznyrules wrote:
SF88 wrote:
Zelaznyrules wrote:I really hate this line of thinking even if it does mirror reality occasionally. I don't think Dragic is worth more than 11 or 12 million. And whether we overpaid Bledsoe or not should have no bearing on Dragic's deal. Is Goran worth more than Lowry? Or is he 24 years old and just beginning to show what he can do? If you ("you" being management) think he's worth 14 million then fine, pay him 14 million. But his contract has to stand on it's own, don't make a mistake just because you've already made one. And if you do decide to overpay him, as we did for Eric, do it for a better reason than Bledsoe's contract.

So you admit we overpaid for Bledsoe?

As for reasoning, yes he's an All NBA guard who when isn't playing with 2 other PG's is capable of putting up 20+ pts and 6+ assists a game on great efficiency.


Sure, I think he's overpaid right now. I thought it at the time too although I did consider it a reasonable contract based on his potential and the rising cap. And I'm disappointed in his play so far this season although I still think he's been our best player overall (barely). He has so much potential but until he can knock down that mid-range shot consistently not to mention his 3 point jumper, he's going to have too many off-nights. His turnovers are a problem too but he's cut down on those quite a bit now that he's no longer trying to set up Plumlee. I doubt he'll ever do away with the ball handling TO's, it's just a problem we'll have to live with. Anyway, even without improvement as a shooter, he'll still have value because he defends, rebounds, drives and assists but we're paying him like a top 20 player and he's playing more like he's top 50.

And your "all nba guard" point isn't a reason to overpay Dragic. If you truly consider him to be an ALL NBA player it's probably a reason to give him that contract but then it wouldnt be an overpay. But if you look around the league and decide his value is somewhere around 11 million per, it's foolish to give him 14 million simply because that's what you paid some other player. They aren't twins, they aren't clones and part of the cost of buying Bledsoe was his age and growth potential.

We pretty much know what Goran is by this time. He's a very good player but one season as a 3rd team all NBA guard does not necessarily make him a max contract player. Besides, I doubt that I'm alone in realizing that Goran's 3rd team award was, at least in part, a makeup call for the fact he was ignored for the all star game. His interview where he suggested he "(paraphrased) was not given serious consideration for the all star game because he was an international player from a not-so-important nation" probably helped a bit too. He had a very good season but he is not one of the 6 best guards in the game IMO. I like him. A lot. I don't want to lose him but I don't want to seriously overpay him either.

I actually think you are definitely alone in thinking that. Dragic earned his All NBA Team status, he didn't get it because he's Slovenian or because he was snubbed or whatever. It played no role, he got All NBA because of the numbers he put up on amazing efficiency for a 48 win club. Simple.

If Bledsoe ever got some sort of an accomplishment, I doubt you would agree with me if I said, "Weelll Bledsoe got that award because he's black and the NBA is still trying to help black people because of segregation they have faced now and especially in the past".

Secondly, its ALWAYS a better idea to pay a player based on his play rather than his potential. ALWAYS. Its business 101. Not just in the NBA but in any sports and in any business. Sure you can take a gamble every now and then (an example could be GSW with Curry) but for the most part, it will fail. A very recent example of that is Larry Sanders and the extension that Milwaukke gave him based on his "potential".

Dragic is worth $14-$16M. And that's based on his play and his impact on this team. Not his race or anything else. A major overpay for Dragic would be anything over $18M.

BurningHeart wrote:The same people who justified signing Bledsoe because "the cap's going up anyway" are the same ones worried about overpaying Goran Dragic. It doesnt make sense. If "the cap is going up anyway" then it doesn't matter if we give Dragic 5/80.

Great point.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#1189 » by Safety Pickle » Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:14 am

batsmasher wrote:PSA: Just because it's been a day since the last trade suggestion doesn't mean you need to make a new one. This is starting to become the "look what I got to work in the trade machine" thread. It would help improve the quality of discussion too.


Ya, how dare you guys post hypothetical trades in a thread titled "Official Trade Thread". You should know that those kind of things have no place here
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#1190 » by Revived » Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:24 am

bigfoot wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:
SF88 wrote:What do you guys think about this trade?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1367404


LMAO, i just came here to post that.

I already put in my two cents.

I respectfully declined when in reality i wanted to shout HELL F'N NO!!!

Funny to see people from other teams chime in that the Suns would do it in a heartbeat.


Thanks Kerrsed. That stupidity over there got me a warning. Next time I'll watch what forum I'm in before I post a funny image.

Kinda ridiculous that you can get in trouble for posting an image while this guy basically calls us all embarassing for not agreeing with him and that's apparently fine

I_Socrates wrote:I would like to apologize on behalf of the Suns fan base. This thread is embarrassing. OP, kind sir, is this deal still available? Please. Just tell me where to sign off.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1367404&start=20

Who nominated I_Socrates as the spokesman for Suns fans? I have never even seen this guy post in this forum.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#1191 » by thamadkant » Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:43 am

I_Socrates post a lot in the trade forum, he is alright. Maybe he simply likes Noah...
He has countered many bad trades from the Suns point of view over there.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#1192 » by Revived » Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:41 pm

1UPZ wrote:I_Socrates post a lot in the trade forum, he is alright. Maybe he simply likes Noah...
He has countered many bad trades from the Suns point of view over there.

He needs to spend less time in the trade forum and more time watching Len then.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#1193 » by Revived » Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:42 pm

I countered with Plumlee/Tucker for Noah/McD lol

:lol:
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Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#1194 » by Jdiddy701 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:27 pm

SF88 wrote:I countered with Plumlee/Tucker for Noah/McD lol

:lol:


Lol nice! Get it done MCD! :)


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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#1195 » by NotTraxxe » Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:06 pm

My response:

Noah has the better body of work x100.

The reason the Suns say 'no' is for a number of reasons. None of which are that Len //IS// a better player than Noah.

Here are my reasons:

1) The Suns with Noah in an ultra competitive West are not going to contend. There is no guarantee they make the playoffs at this juncture either even with Noah. We would have to make other moves with this and if those are not out there then there is no reason to move forward.

2) Noah's salary. The Suns have Goran Dragic to resign or trade. Taking Noah would hamper our ability to do that. If we don't find a trade partner for Dragic where we get value back we will want to retain him.

3) McDonough valued Len as a top two pick in the draft. We attempted to get an earlier pick to acquire him or Oladipo. Len is in the eyes of management a statement of franchise direction and opportunity. This was our lowest pick in a draft (even if a poor one) and the Suns have taken tremendous heat for our sending off of our picks. (Nash/Rondo/etc.)

4) Noah's inevitable decline is upon us:

Percent decline of NBA player's by Age: (Keep in mind for a Center this is likely far more dramatic)
29 to 30 -11%
30 to 31 -17%
31 to 32 -22%
32 to 33 -35%
33 to 34 -57%
34 to 35 -146%

Source: http://wagesofwins.com/nba-players-age-like-milk/

5) Len's contract. He is still on his rookie deal for two more years. If Noah declines as expected Len will be producing where he is at a fraction of the cost. Further the Suns can resign Len when his rookie deal is up. Look at the statistics of where a team that can offer longer contracts loses a player they want to keep and resign.

6 Noah's contract. Noah will have the ability to go to a contending team or a large market team when his contract expires. See the percentage of players that remain on non-contending teams in this scenario with the draw Noah has. Likely the Suns get Noah for two years and then would have to overpay a rapidly declining player to retain him.


It isn't because Len's last run of games that makes him equal to Noah why the suns say no. It is all the reasons mentioned above. Len is not equal to Noah right now. But in two years his production will be better than Noah and that's when the Suns with their young players will be reaching many of their 'peak' years. The Suns will be in their prime in about two years if they don't shake up the roster. Getting Noah now hinders that progress. Len will be in his third year (missing the first) when statistically big men show a leap forward in production.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#1196 » by Fo-Real » Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:32 pm

Just kind of scouring the league looking for untapped or unused talent, other than the obvious big name mostly untouchable stars, the Suns dont have much of a win now trade to make. It might be his situation but Love looks like he would be a terrible risk..... and could just opt out.
I will get flamed... probably deservedly so... much like love.... talk about a guy who was playing at a near all-star level and goes to a bad chemistry, bad team, full of chuckers and seems to fall off of the earth... Andrea Bargnani was balling before he went to New York. He was a guy that at 7"0 had a very high quick release... shot it at a high percentage...unlimited range....was savy and quick enough to put the ball on the floor and blow by you.... his post game was good... he was even playing a little defense and just from sheer length blocking shots. Just saying... did he get hurt...rich and lazy.... or is this another Pau Gasol situation where he isnt used properly, because he can be had for scraps right now and can be a pf in this league if so.

So if our team is still thinking addition by subtraction. .. Thomas and Green probably could get that plus assets if we get a third team involved. Hell... the way Len and getting a TRUE big in Wright has looked and if the Suns really are internally irritated with the Morri....maybe send them home to thier mamma in Philly while fleecing both teams for assets and or picks. It would get rid of almost all of our hero ball while opeaning up playing time for some young guys.... I havnt looked at actual trade scenarios but an expiring Bargs (mind you... if he can still play) a guy like KJ McDaniel.... or other young talent from either team... or someone to spin to another deal..... I dont know.... just thinking out loud... just addition by subtraction with Thomas and Green plus getting an assets plus an expiring... and the what if on the bs that has been going on with the Morri.... If he still has game hideing in there, Len and Bargs would be a really long frontcourt... and Wright off the bench is still keeping the theme.... coupled with not having a single problem with having the money to retain Dragic and Wright... while opeaning up playing time for young guys...... again.... just thinking out loud.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#1197 » by Frank Lee » Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:15 pm

Thats some bangin logic Los Sloes... might have to go over and see the Kramden-like HomminaHomminaHommina responses.
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Nice spy Fo... Bargs is another long talented player who has been mired in/around mediocrity and hampered with injury. Only 2 games this yr... but scheduled to return soon. Don't know how we trade for him, as I would rather keep IT than give him away for a rental, unless a significant one. Too many ?? about Bargs' immediate impact. Good FA target though. Green can go easier IMO... Like IT as a back up.

i too think the MoBros have ruffled some feathers. We were after Wright before each had their public ass showings, but who knows what goes on inside the walls? Certainly, BWright makes it easier to part with KeifMo, if the right return was tabled. Frankly, I have no idea whats next... but I see GGreen as sooooo available, and apparently, others too.

PS... I think it is more likely we make a big trade i.e. MoBros, IT etc in the off season once the drafting order is established.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#1198 » by Qwigglez » Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:16 pm

I would trade for Bargnani sure. His contract expires so that helps. As a player, heck no he's done. I used to be enamored by Bargnani, thinking he would be a perfect fit in our system. But he doesn't possess that fire and he just simply doesn't want to play basketball anymore it seems.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#1199 » by NavLDO » Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:31 pm

Frank Lee wrote:Thats some bangin logic Los Sloes... might have to go over and see the Kramden-like HomminaHomminaHommina responses.

Nice spy Fo... Bargs is another long talented player who has been mired in/around mediocrity and hampered with injury. Only 2 games this yr... but scheduled to return soon. Don't know how we trade for him, as I would rather keep IT than give him away for a rental, unless a significant one. Too many ?? about Bargs' immediate impact. Good FA target though. Green can go easier IMO... Like IT as a back up.

i too think the MoBros have ruffled some feathers. We were after Wright before each had their public ass showings, but who knows what goes on inside the walls? Certainly, BWright makes it easier to part with KeifMo, if the right return was tabled. Frankly, I have no idea whats next... but I see GGreen as sooooo available, and apparently, others too.

PS... I think it is more likely we make a big trade i.e. MoBros, IT etc in the off season once the drafting order is established.



http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kzu975d

There's your Barg for IT/Green trade

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lc8p9wr

There's a Barg/C. Early for the Morri/Green trade, if they would demand a PF in return. Would leave us with Wright starting at PF, and would likely need to play Tucker as a "stretch 4" backup, until Bargs is ready to play. That of course, would require us to play Warren as our starting SF, with Early or Goodwin as our backup SF--so basically, this would be a bad trade for us until Bargs is healthy, at which point, it then becomes a decent trade, I guess.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#1200 » by rsavaj » Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:43 pm

Any GM that trades for Bargnani deserves to be fired on the spot. He hasn't made a positive impact on the court for 5 years.

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