Bears 2023 thread V

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

He has better completion percentage, a slightly higher rating, and more YPC this year than last year when he was celebrated as the GOAT. Total yards are down, because # of drops are down. It seems like there is classic paralysis by analysis going on with him. The more these guys are stared at, the more people look for flaws instead of strengths. He’s been on the radar too long.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4431611/caleb-williams

You do the same thing with Fields.

But I mean shouldn't we be trying to find flaws in these guys before we pick one? Or should we just watch highlights of the players and make our choice that way?

Are you disputing any of the Caleb Williams criticisms based on defensiveness over Fields “haters” observations? Seems like you are, but then you aren’t. You might ask your pointed questions about the case of the Bears quarterback.

No.

[Almost Retired]

If we do move on from fields, I hope poles does right by him and trades him to Atlanta so he can win mvp in his home town

Let JF win 2 games in a row for the Falcons before we ignite MVP talk on his behalf.

[fleet]

You do the same thing with Fields.

But I mean shouldn't we be trying to find flaws in these guys before we pick one? Or should we just watch highlights of the players and make our choice that way?

Are you disputing any of the Caleb Williams criticisms based on defensiveness over Fields “haters” observations? Seems like you are, but then you aren’t. You might ask your pointed questions about the case of the Bears quarterback.

No.

No, what? Not disputing Caleb Williams criticism in general, or just based on Fields criticism defensiveness. I gotta say, if it’s the former, pretty inconsistent. I mean, since you want to talk about each other personally. Lets.

[Almost Retired]

Our secondary is really underrated. One more top level pass rusher and I think we got a top 10 unit

When healthy we do have a pretty good secondary. But they all seem to be injury prone to one degree or another.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Are you disputing any of the Caleb Williams criticisms based on defensiveness over Fields “haters” observations? Seems like you are, but then you aren’t. You might ask your pointed questions about the case of the Bears quarterback.

No.

No, what? Not disputing Caleb Williams criticism in general, or just based on Fields criticism defensiveness. I gotta say, if it’s the former, pretty inconsistent. I mean, since you want to talk about each other personally. Lets.

No to the question you asked.

I have nothing against you personally, sorry you took it that way.

[fleet]

No.

No, what? Not disputing Caleb Williams criticism in general, or just based on Fields criticism defensiveness. I gotta say, if it’s the former, pretty inconsistent. I mean, since you want to talk about each other personally. Lets.

No to the question you asked.

I have nothing against you personally, sorry you took it that way.

Whats with all the “Hater” police talk then?

So you are acceptable to criticism of Caleb Williams, but if someone criticizes Fields, its labeled as hate.

[Almost Retired]

Edwards is good

A very good value for production signing. We overpaid for Tremaine Edmunds (so far) but got a real deal with Edwards. It balances out. Our defense is not the problem.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

No, what? Not disputing Caleb Williams criticism in general, or just based on Fields criticism defensiveness. I gotta say, if it’s the former, pretty inconsistent. I mean, since you want to talk about each other personally. Lets.

No to the question you asked.

I have nothing against you personally, sorry you took it that way.

Whats with all the “Hater” police talk then?

So you are acceptable to criticism of Caleb Williams, but if someone criticizes Fields, its labeled as hate.

I mean do you disagree that what you said is a bit hypocritical? Ok, you didn't like that part of my comment, lets just drop it.

But the second part, 'shouldn't we be trying to find flaws in these guys before we pick one? Or should we just watch highlights of the players and make our choice that way?' I mean this makes sense in the same way we do it for Fields correct?

[fleet]

No to the question you asked.

I have nothing against you personally, sorry you took it that way.

Whats with all the “Hater” police talk then?

So you are acceptable to criticism of Caleb Williams, but if someone criticizes Fields, its labeled as hate.

I mean do you disagree that what you said is a bit hypocritical? Ok, you didn't like that part of my comment, lets just drop it.

But the second part, 'shouldn't we be trying to find flaws in these guys before we pick one? Or should we just watch highlights of the players and make our choice that way?' I mean this makes sense in the same way we do it for Fields correct?

Its not hypocrisy. Caleb Williams was almost universally praised last season. This season, he is taking flak with better stats. Fields was never universally praised in the NFL. Paralysis by analysis is a fair question to raise in Williams case

To the second paragraph, you seem to be objecting to Fields criticism every opportunity, calling it hate rather than honest evaluation. But here you are are adopting an attitude of welcoming criticism toward Williams that doesn’t apply to your approach on hearing Fields criticism.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Whats with all the “Hater” police talk then?

So you are acceptable to criticism of Caleb Williams, but if someone criticizes Fields, its labeled as hate.

I mean do you disagree that what you said is a bit hypocritical? Ok, you didn't like that part of my comment, lets just drop it.

But the second part, 'shouldn't we be trying to find flaws in these guys before we pick one? Or should we just watch highlights of the players and make our choice that way?' I mean this makes sense in the same way we do it for Fields correct?

Its not hypocrisy. Caleb Williams was almost universally praised last season. This season, he is taking flak with better stats. Fields was never universally praised in the NFL. Paralysis by analysis was a fair question to raise in Williams case.

To the second paragraph, you seem to be objecting to Fields criticism every opportunity, calling it hate rather than honest evaluation. But here you are are adopting an attitude of welcoming criticism toward Williams that doesn’t apply to your approach on hearing Fields criticism.

No no the part about the more guys are stared at the more people look for flaws instead of strengths. Thats ok though I'm over it.

And yes I have been commenting on the JF "hate" that continues because he actually has played much better but people are stuck in their agendas of Caleb is the next Mahomes or Bagent is our savior even. I have been critical of JF in the past and I will be anytime he doesn't play well. It will fluctuate based on his play. I mean people say things here about Fields that just isn't true. I get it, some people have seen enough but some of us still need to see more and well looking at his flaws instead of his strengths can help, no?

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

[x]

Read on Twitter

?s=20[/x]

This guy needs more reps.

[amcoolio]

Most Panther fans want you guys to get the #1 pick from us so Tepper can feel embarrassed. Good trade by you guys. Just an idiotic GM and coaching hire by Tepper

[Almost Retired]

[x]

Read on Twitter

?s=20[/x]

This guy needs more reps.

I think he's become our #1 RB at this point. He did miss on one block last night that I remember, but overall he's been a nice 4th Round pick up. And he came to us without a lot of wear and tear because he played behind Bijan Robinson at Texas. Pound for pound he might be our best blocker, period. He's good as a receiver out of the backfield. He's a more punishing runner than Herbert. Herbert has one more year under contract a little over $1 million. Might as well keep him one more year as a back up. Keep Foreman another year too if he'll sign another value contract.

[Betta Bulleavit]

Whats with all the “Hater” police talk then?

So you are acceptable to criticism of Caleb Williams, but if someone criticizes Fields, its labeled as hate.

I mean do you disagree that what you said is a bit hypocritical? Ok, you didn't like that part of my comment, lets just drop it.

But the second part, 'shouldn't we be trying to find flaws in these guys before we pick one? Or should we just watch highlights of the players and make our choice that way?' I mean this makes sense in the same way we do it for Fields correct?

Its not hypocrisy. Caleb Williams was almost universally praised last season. This season, he is taking flak with better stats. Fields was never universally praised in the NFL. Paralysis by analysis is a fair question to raise in Williams case

To the second paragraph, you seem to be objecting to Fields criticism every opportunity, calling it hate rather than honest evaluation. But here you are are adopting an attitude of welcoming criticism toward Williams that doesn’t apply to your approach on hearing Fields criticism.

Williams is being criticized more this year because:

1. It’s almost a certainty that he’s going to enter the draft this year (unlike last year).

2. He has shown certain tendencies that could make using a number 1 pick on him concerning.

3. As good as his stats are, they aren’t that much better than other “generational talents” that have come before him.

[Dresden]

Our secondary is really underrated. One more top level pass rusher and I think we got a top 10 unit

When healthy we do have a pretty good secondary. But they all seem to be injury prone to one degree or another.

It better be good. We have used a lot of high draft picks there the past few years.

[Dresden]

I mean do you disagree that what you said is a bit hypocritical? Ok, you didn't like that part of my comment, lets just drop it.

But the second part, 'shouldn't we be trying to find flaws in these guys before we pick one? Or should we just watch highlights of the players and make our choice that way?' I mean this makes sense in the same way we do it for Fields correct?

Its not hypocrisy. Caleb Williams was almost universally praised last season. This season, he is taking flak with better stats. Fields was never universally praised in the NFL. Paralysis by analysis is a fair question to raise in Williams case

To the second paragraph, you seem to be objecting to Fields criticism every opportunity, calling it hate rather than honest evaluation. But here you are are adopting an attitude of welcoming criticism toward Williams that doesn’t apply to your approach on hearing Fields criticism.

Williams is being criticized more this year because:

1. It’s almost a certainty that he’s going to enter the draft this year (unlike last year).

2. He has shown certain tendencies that could make using a number 1 pick on him concerning.

3. As good as his stats are, they aren’t that much better than other “generational talents” that have come before him.

The thing with Williams, IMO, is that his upside is so great. He's got a tremendous arm, and I think if he does a pro day or throws at the combine, he will really blow people away for that reason. On top of that, he's very elusive so has a great ability to extend plays.

the downside is that he gets too used to using his scrambling ability and trying to make big plays, instead of taking what's there. That you might have to coach him on some. But the potential with him is there- he's got HOF written all over him if he can tone down his scrambling a bit and play more within a system.

But I understand some teams preferring Maye, too. He is likely a safer bet, and also has a cannon for an arm and good mobility. It's hard to imagine either of them not being very, very good in the NFL. And I think we'd be fools not to take one of them.

[Almost Retired]

Day after thoughts on Fields. He did play much better. He had a few escape plays where he was able to find a receiver and pick up yardage. That's progress. But he failed to see open receivers a couple of times, even with the receivers waving their arms that they were wide open. So I don't think his full field vision has improved enough. Those fumbles are going to cost us games against quality teams. And my biggest concert is that twice he threw WR screens directly into a Defensive Lineman. One of the throws was right into his grill. Did JF somehow not see that 6' 4' 325 pound obstacle in the way of his throwing lane? It's not like the DL arrived there out of nowhere. He was there, in his way, prior to JF winding up the throw. And he still threw it.

So while he looked better can we trust him with a huge contact extending for 4 or 5 years? Lamar Jackson got 5 years/$260 million with $185 Million guaranteed. Kyler Murray got 5 years/$230 million with almost $160 million guaranteed. Joe Burrow got 5 years/$275 million with $219 million guaranteed. Mahomes got 10 years/$450 million but only $141 million guaranteed. Justin Herbert got 5 year/$262.5 million with $218 million guaranteed. So even if we got Fields on a "discount" we're probably still paying him at least $30 million a year for 5 years with at least $100 million guaranteed. At a minimum. In contrast the cap hit for the #1 pick in 2024 will be closer to $8 million. I'm not a JF hater. But the gods have lined up against him. He got stuck going to a team without enough talent, with coaches clearly over their heads. If the Bears keep him he's going to have to learn a whole new offense. He might prosper under a new OC. But that's not a sure thing. Football is a business. Moving on to a new QB while saving almost $20 million a year in cap space makes the most sense. If we were picking in the mid First Round the equation might work out differently. But getting such a high pick again makes a pretty compelling argument for going for a QB in the Draft. Whoever the new coach and OC want to roll with.

[fleet]

Most Panther fans want you guys to get the #1 pick from us so Tepper can feel embarrassed. Good trade by you guys. Just an idiotic GM and coaching hire by Tepper

A lot of owners hire funky GMs and even coaches. But getting involved with player personnel is atrocious behavior. The Bears ownership have had the humility to have taken steps to isolate themselves from football decisions. Although they still have some work to do because they had input in both the GM and coaching hire recently. Hopefully the hiring of Kevin Warren as team president will cut the final cord on that. Tepper appears to be shifting the blame and accountability for his own moves/fail, and his quarterback choice mistake. He will likely continue to lack any bit of self-reflction. How narciscistic billionaires are. If you think it's bad where you are, Jerry Reinsdorf owns 2 Chicago teams, and both fanbases simultaneously have the pitchforks and torches out. These guys can't resist sticking their beaks into the expert's clubhouse. The Panthers FO were poised to actually 'win' the trade by taking Stroud. They 'lost' the trade just because of Tepper's input. Although time will have the final say on the winner.

[MoSalad]

He has better completion percentage, a slightly higher rating, and more YPC this year than last year when he was celebrated as the GOAT. Total yards are down, because # of drops are down. It seems like there is classic paralysis by analysis going on with him. The more these guys are stared at, the more people look for flaws instead of strengths. He’s been on the radar too long.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4431611/caleb-williams

He isn't playing worse...Its just becoming more obvious that there is some emptiness to his stats. The shift on Caleb Williams happened this year with a greater deal of the public when the "hes never played well against a good defense" comment became kind of hard to refute.

I started questioning him a bit last year when against Utah they scored like 1 time in their last 10 possessions and people were like "well the defense let them down"....Sure!

He is talented, but he is an undersized QB who struggles within these games more than the final stats show.

My point is there is such thing as a once in a more than just a few season level QB prospect. Caleb Williams does not really fall in that category.

[TheSuzerain]

He has better completion percentage, a slightly higher rating, and more YPC this year than last year when he was celebrated as the GOAT. Total yards are down, because # of drops are down. It seems like there is classic paralysis by analysis going on with him. The more these guys are stared at, the more people look for flaws instead of strengths. He’s been on the radar too long.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4431611/caleb-williams

He isn't playing worse...Its just becoming more obvious that there is some emptiness to his stats. The shift on Caleb Williams happened this year with a greater deal of the public when the "hes never played well against a good defense" comment became kind of hard to refute.

I started questioning him a bit last year when against Utah they scored like 1 time in their last 10 possessions and people were like "well the defense let them down"....Sure!

He is talented, but he is an undersized QB who struggles within these games more than the final stats show.

My point is there is such thing as a once in a more than just a few season level QB prospect. Caleb Williams does not really fall in that category.

Who is the best QB prospect of the past 3 seasons?