NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued)

[Cubbies2120]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=XO0PgrZjS-uU8MmGKL8grQ

Looks like he’ll be missing another game?

Yup because he's actually hurt.

Anybody who saw that video would know it was a bad ankle roll. When you’re his height and weight, these things needed to be taken slowly and with caution.

I've personally said repeatedly here that I thought THIS was a real injury.

My thread was about the 76 game sample size in the last 5 years. There were games in there that were 'load management' (not all, not nearly all) that were strategically chosen for the road game...he still traveled with the team, just didn't play.

Usually there's a logic that teams stick to for managing B2B's, either "Sit tail end" or "Front end" of a B2B. For Embiid, it seemed to be a lot of "Sit the road game", which if you look at the Sixers history with Embiid sitting...they should be sitting him for the home game (they win 62% without him at home, and 44% on the road).

Maybe the Sixers just prefer to give themselves a lower % chance to win the game, idk...

[eyeatoma]

I didnt say anything about your family. Try to stay on topic. Im just relaying how you conduct yourself in similar discussions on the internet and how unhinged you appeared to become while offering to meet up in person and fight people.

Never said you did - I said I responded in kind to people on reddit (short of making death threats to people / their families, which redditors did).

Go ahead and post the specific post where I said "I'll meet up with you and fight you" to someone on reddit. I'll wait. I said "People are brave under the shroud of anonymity", and if I remember correctly I said I'd love to meet up in person for a drink to someone...now if that same energy is presented in person, who knows where that takes us! Also be sure to read the comments I was responding to, as I don't just post things in a vacuum...

You act as if I saw people make rational posts and then just said "Argh you're attacking my data! Let's fight!"

Two people were willing to talk about the data in that thread. Of the 500 responses. The rest were attacking me as a person, or my family (lol) because they got triggered by the data. Wait til tomorrow's post, an analysis of 100 top scorers in NBA history. I'm sure Sixers fans will attack me there too, even though it's just an analysis of 100 scorers, not one specific person. We'll see

an analysis that added every multi game injury (some over weeks at a time including a 9 game absence with covid) and included it in your "objective data" to try to support what your preconceived conclusion already was. Anyone that brought that up was promptly ignored, you ever said the data was incomplete and you would follow up on it... lol.

Your data is just for every game he has missed with no context for why or how while making sweeping declarations. That is science done at its best imo.

It is a troll post which is not unusual for you. Very passive aggressive as you try to come off as objective but that thinly veiled excuse got exposed by your many responses with anyone that disagreed with you. Just own it, being an Embiid hater is hardly a novelty. Youd be welcomed with open arms.

LOL, at this point it's amusing to see someone continue to try to justify it, when literally everyone can see through him.

[Cubbies2120]

Never said you did - I said I responded in kind to people on reddit (short of making death threats to people / their families, which redditors did).

Go ahead and post the specific post where I said "I'll meet up with you and fight you" to someone on reddit. I'll wait. I said "People are brave under the shroud of anonymity", and if I remember correctly I said I'd love to meet up in person for a drink to someone...now if that same energy is presented in person, who knows where that takes us! Also be sure to read the comments I was responding to, as I don't just post things in a vacuum...

You act as if I saw people make rational posts and then just said "Argh you're attacking my data! Let's fight!"

Two people were willing to talk about the data in that thread. Of the 500 responses. The rest were attacking me as a person, or my family (lol) because they got triggered by the data. Wait til tomorrow's post, an analysis of 100 top scorers in NBA history. I'm sure Sixers fans will attack me there too, even though it's just an analysis of 100 scorers, not one specific person. We'll see

an analysis that added every multi game injury (some over weeks at a time including a 9 game absence with covid) and included it in your "objective data" to try to support what your preconceived conclusion already was. Anyone that brought that up was promptly ignored, you ever said the data was incomplete and you would follow up on it... lol.

Your data is just for every game he has missed with no context for why or how while making sweeping declarations. That is science done at its best imo.

It is a troll post which is not unusual for you. Very passive aggressive as you try to come off as objective but that thinly veiled excuse got exposed by your many responses with anyone that disagreed with you. Just own it, being an Embiid hater is hardly a novelty. Youd be welcomed with open arms.

LOL, at this point it's amusing to see someone continue to try to justify it, when literally everyone can see through him.

Like I said You can't point out any evidence, so just continue to deflect. Thought I was on the ignore list? Put me back there please!

[LordCovington33]

Never said you did - I said I responded in kind to people on reddit (short of making death threats to people / their families, which redditors did).

Go ahead and post the specific post where I said "I'll meet up with you and fight you" to someone on reddit. I'll wait. I said "People are brave under the shroud of anonymity", and if I remember correctly I said I'd love to meet up in person for a drink to someone...now if that same energy is presented in person, who knows where that takes us! Also be sure to read the comments I was responding to, as I don't just post things in a vacuum...

You act as if I saw people make rational posts and then just said "Argh you're attacking my data! Let's fight!"

Two people were willing to talk about the data in that thread. Of the 500 responses. The rest were attacking me as a person, or my family (lol) because they got triggered by the data. Wait til tomorrow's post, an analysis of 100 top scorers in NBA history. I'm sure Sixers fans will attack me there too, even though it's just an analysis of 100 scorers, not one specific person. We'll see

an analysis that added every multi game injury (some over weeks at a time including a 9 game absence with covid) and included it in your "objective data" to try to support what your preconceived conclusion already was. Anyone that brought that up was promptly ignored, you ever said the data was incomplete and you would follow up on it... lol.

Your data is just for every game he has missed with no context for why or how while making sweeping declarations. That is science done at its best imo.

It is a troll post which is not unusual for you. Very passive aggressive as you try to come off as objective but that thinly veiled excuse got exposed by your many responses with anyone that disagreed with you. Just own it, being an Embiid hater is hardly a novelty. Youd be welcomed with open arms.

LOL, at this point it's amusing to see someone continue to try to justify it, when literally everyone can see through him.

And it wasn’t like he wasn’t sick when he missed two games earlier in the season. Unless Maxey was faking it too, since he caught Embiid’s cold. Maybe he should have played in those games and passed it onto others? That would have gone down well.

Also, does the 76-game sample include games from season 1 where he was heavily load managed? He only played 31 games and for good reason.

[CobraCommander]

If he plays defense like that every night....he will get some first team mvp votes. The scoring and assist are nice but we expect that from Luka and 6 guys avg 30 so...it’s kinda what ever

and Jokic avg more assist and more rebounds and only 5 less points....but if Luka plays with this level of intensity on defense...well like he does against Booker and the Suns...that’s my mvp.

SGA plays defense - that’s what makes him better than Luka - but this Luka plays defense too

Scoring is what ever - take as many shots as he does you should lead the league in scoring...but beat them down at both ends like he did yesterday...that’s special

That’s reallly special - it’s the secret of greatness -

What?

5 ppg margin is huge. It still surprises me how people trivialize accomplishments. And the first sentence… if Luka would play like last night, he will be MVP almost unanimously.

What ever

CobraCommander loves to secretly hate on Doncic. While always stating that he really likes him. ; )
For example when he says that Doncic is on the same level as "Booker and Tatum" and that SGA is a better player than Doncic/has surpassed him.
Or when he says stuff like above
"Eh, he scores 30+ every game even when he gets doubled all the time. But that is nothing special because we expect that from him."

Do not take what he does for granted. I often laugh when i see the daily top10 and there is some kind of allen oop pass from someone to someone at number 2 or 3 and you see those kind of passes at least 2 or 3 times per game from Doncic. Heck, a lot of his insane plays are not even recognized properly because "you expect that from him."

Naw I’m just NOT like a “Luka only” fan- I don’t secretly hate on him. Luka’s fans have some over inflated view so when Luka comes ins behind SGA in MVP votes like he did last year and didn’t get a single 1st 2nd or 3rd place vote and I call that out, I’m a hater.

The problem with some Luka fans is they are not objective.

I love Luka but he ain’t perfect.

His defense was great last night - I’m not gonna say he is better than SGA when SGA plays defense every night and I’m not gonna say Luka better than Embiid when Rmbiid the reining mvp with better stats than Luka and Giannis or Jokic when they have MVPs and chips,

I don’t secretly hate anyone-

I hate Embiid publicly -

I love basketball publicly-


I don’t get the Luka is best ever from some of you guys - but I do love watching him play.

Oh and

Jokic takes 18 shots per game -
Embiid take 20 - leads league in scoring
Luka takes 22 - second in league in scoring

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/who-leads-the-nba-in-scoring

If you want to argue that Luka is a better scorer than Jokic - ok but dudes taking 4 more shots and is taking 2 more than Embiid while scoring less.

Luka ain’t perfect guys he is better than Booker tho

[Cubbies2120]

an analysis that added every multi game injury (some over weeks at a time including a 9 game absence with covid) and included it in your "objective data" to try to support what your preconceived conclusion already was.

I offered to give people a copy so they could add any context they felt was missing. Nobody wants to do it. I can give you a copy if you'd like?

Anyone that brought that up was promptly ignored, you ever said the data was incomplete and you would follow up on it... lol.

Again, you are paraphrasing. Give the full context...I said every data set is 'incomplete' when new conditions / criteria get added. Would you like to bring in the comment chain here or continue to make quotes with no context?

Your data is just for every game he has missed with no context for why or how while making sweeping declarations. That is science done at its best imo.

My 'sweeping declaration' in the OP was this, verbatim, this:

**Conclusion:**If Embiid decides to sit less road games (his personal stats would suffer a bit), his TEAM would perform better record wise. His team has shown they can win vs. bad teams AND great teams at home, but cannot replicate the success on the road (this is not unusual - role players play worse on the road in most cases).

This is based on historical winning % over a 5 year period, broken out vs. great teams, average teams, and bad teams.

It is a troll post which is not unusual for you. Very passive aggressive as you try to come off as objective but that thinly veiled excuse got exposed by your many responses with anyone that disagreed with you. Just own it, being an Embiid hater is hardly a novelty. Youd be welcomed with open arms.

[/quote]

Don't worry, tomorrow's data set will be all 100 top scorers of all time (current and retired). It will rank all of them in certain categories that way you don't think I'm being passive aggressive!

[eyeatoma]

an analysis that added every multi game injury (some over weeks at a time including a 9 game absence with covid) and included it in your "objective data" to try to support what your preconceived conclusion already was. Anyone that brought that up was promptly ignored, you ever said the data was incomplete and you would follow up on it... lol.

Your data is just for every game he has missed with no context for why or how while making sweeping declarations. That is science done at its best imo.

It is a troll post which is not unusual for you. Very passive aggressive as you try to come off as objective but that thinly veiled excuse got exposed by your many responses with anyone that disagreed with you. Just own it, being an Embiid hater is hardly a novelty. Youd be welcomed with open arms.

LOL, at this point it's amusing to see someone continue to try to justify it, when literally everyone can see through him.

Like I said You can't point out any evidence, so just continue to deflect. Thought I was on the ignore list? Put me back there please!

You realise I quoted him and not you.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

[LordCovington33]

I don’t go on Reddit, but to spam two boards with anti-Embiid content points to bigger issues. I get that some people are overly passionate about sports, but it’s just a game. People should just chill.

[Optms]

Luka is basically Euro Kobe. Not only will he win an MVP, he's going to win chips. You basically can quote me on it. Just a matter of time.

He’s an overrated regular season player and he should be tied for 4th at best in the MVP race, but he should certainly have a better career than Kobe. Kobe made the playoffs 15 times and he never had one single playoff run where his numbers were as good as Luka’s career playoff averages from age 20-22. Only in 2009 did Kobe have a playoff BPM that was even good enough to match Luka’s worst playoff run.

So you say he's overrated but than give an analysis that his career will be better than Kobe? Checks out.

[Cubbies2120]

LOL, at this point it's amusing to see someone continue to try to justify it, when literally everyone can see through him.

Like I said You can't point out any evidence, so just continue to deflect. Thought I was on the ignore list? Put me back there please!

You realise I quoted him and not you.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

Yes, and if I was on your ignore list you wouldn't have seen my post. Now put me back please, thanks.

[yoyoboy]

Yeah, you are probably not watching many Doncic games and rather piggyback on narratives about him.

The narratives are there for a reason, and the statistical evidence we have this season so far seems to point in the same direction of being a below average defender, just like it has in past years. Negative Def EPM and Dallas is 2.7 points per 100 poss worse with him on the floor versus off. I’ve watched him a fair bit this season, and he’s still a very lazy perimeter defender.

He had 7 Stocks yesterday and shut Booker down a few times in the 4th quarter.

Wow, steals/blocks from 1 game…I’m totally convinced. It’s not like we have an entire season’s sample to go off of, where his steal and block rates are nothing special. 74th in steals per 100 poss and 140th in blocks per 100 poss.

He is a good team defender when he is engaged.

If you have to preface your statement with “when he is engaged,” then it’s safe to say that engagement is inconsistent enough to seriously hamper his defensive value.

He is miles ahead of everyone in regards to the offensive end.
Best defense against him for all teams is this: double/blitz him as soon as he crosses half court
or when he initiates a PnR and let the rest of the players play 3on4.
Funny thing right now: it barely works when Lively and Irving are injured. This will not work when both are available.

I mean, he got doubled 80% of the game today against an average defense and he still dropped 50 and 15 assists. What the actual ****?!

Not far enough ahead to totally disregard the other end of the floor. Jokic, Hali, and Embiid are basically right there with him.

[iggymcfrack]

I feel like it’s:

(slightly ordered within tier)
1-3. SGA, Jokic, Embiid

(gap)

(completely unordered within tier)
4-6. Giannis, Luka, LeBron

(gap)

7. Haliburton

KD just quit on his team with them out of the play-in. He’s off my ballot.

How do you watch what Luka did last night and have him 4-6? What more does this man have to do!???

I moved him up to the Giannis tier for having such an amazing game.

[iggymcfrack]

I feel like it’s:

(slightly ordered within tier)
1-3. SGA, Jokic, Embiid

(gap)

(completely unordered within tier)
4-6. Giannis, Luka, LeBron

(gap)

7. Haliburton

KD just quit on his team with them out of the play-in. He’s off my ballot.

You put Lebron in the same tier as Giannis and Luka?

EPM: Giannis 7.2, Luka 7.0, LeBron 6.6
BPM: Luka 9.5, LeBron 8.5, Giannis 7.2
On/off: LeBron +11.0, Giannis +6.9, Luka +3.7

Seems like they’re all pretty tight to me.

[bigboi]

Ja gotta be top 5. Grizz turnaround is insanity

[iggymcfrack]

Ja gotta be top 5. Grizz turnaround is insanity

He’s already missed too many games to be eligible. It is crazy how much better the Grizzlies look with him though. You’d think he’s get tired down the stretch after sitting out so long, but it seems like he somehow gets MORE energy late in games. I guess he’s been keeping himself in good shape.

[bigboi]

Ja gotta be top 5. Grizz turnaround is insanity

He’s already missed too many games to be eligible. It is crazy how much better the Grizzlies look with him though. You’d think he’s get tired down the stretch after sitting out so long, but it seems like he somehow gets MORE energy late in games. I guess he’s been keeping himself in good shape.

Yea, it is unfortunately. But he literally embodies the word MVP. Grizz has a good chance of making the playoffs or at very least play in

[DrModesty]

SGA with a very efficient 34/6/9/2/1 in a blow out win over the Timberwolves.

[Wolfgang630]

I feel like it’s:

(slightly ordered within tier)
1-3. SGA, Jokic, Embiid

(gap)

(completely unordered within tier)
4-6. Giannis, Luka, LeBron

(gap)

7. Haliburton

KD just quit on his team with them out of the play-in. He’s off my ballot.

You put Lebron in the same tier as Giannis and Luka?

EPM: Giannis 7.2, Luka 7.0, LeBron 6.6
BPM: Luka 9.5, LeBron 8.5, Giannis 7.2
On/off: LeBron +11.0, Giannis +6.9, Luka +3.7

Seems like they’re all pretty tight to me.

This is not some end all be all for mvp. The LAKERS are the 9th SEED. Their record is 16-15. He’s not in any tier with Giannis and Luka

[iggymcfrack]

You put Lebron in the same tier as Giannis and Luka?

EPM: Giannis 7.2, Luka 7.0, LeBron 6.6
BPM: Luka 9.5, LeBron 8.5, Giannis 7.2
On/off: LeBron +11.0, Giannis +6.9, Luka +3.7

Seems like they’re all pretty tight to me.

This is not some end all be all for mvp. The LAKERS are the 9th SEED. Their record is 16-15. He’s not in any tier with Giannis and Luka

Lakers are +3.3 with LeBron on the floor. Mavs are +2.2 with Luka on the floor. I’m not going to disqualify Bron for having a worse bench.

[iggymcfrack]

SGA with a very efficient 34/6/9/2/1 in a blow out win over the Timberwolves.

He da real MVP. Especially with Embiid missing more time, I think SGA’s clearly the most valuable player so far this season.