tkf keys to the loss

[TKF]

That play was so bad not only did he go under the screen but he sagged deeper into the paint. I was like talk about bailing on a play. It's akin to a wide receiver running a lazy slant route, then allowing the DB to jump and not going after him after he picks off the pass.

Dougie isn't as bad as Aggo states offensively because his 3 ball is alive but he is approaching Nate territory with his point play. He's not as fun to watch anymore, which is sad because I think he's a good guy and all but I can't gravitate to selfish basketball players no matter how endearing their personalities are. Maybe coach is to blame here again allowing players to do whatever they want, regardless I do not like it at all.

another play, jru was wide open in the corner, douglas didn't want to leave his man, and let jru set up and take an uncontested three. you have to run at that shooter and make him pass.

I don't want to pick on douglas, but I want him to get back to doing the little things that got him playing time..

[najeem37]

Knicks have to make shots consistently. You cant shoot well in a game and then shoot poorly the next game.

[J9Starks3]

Knicks have to make shots consistently. You cant shoot well in a game and then shoot poorly the next game.

I disagree, while Id love for us to shoot 60% every game, its not going to happen. This is the NBA, when your shot isnt falling, you have to find ways to win the game. We have guys who can do other things and as people mentioned, our defense bailed out the 6ers a ton. When your shot isnt falling, you cannot afford the turnovers and mental lapses that we had.

But this is the NBA and those type of bad shooting nights will happen...you just have to find ways to overcome.

[TheBluest]

yea, one time TD went under the screen on Holliday and just stayed there as jru had like 3 seconds to line up a wide open three.. that was not good at all

That play was so bad not only did he go under the screen but he sagged deeper into the paint. I was like talk about bailing on a play. It's akin to a wide receiver running a lazy slant route, then allowing the DB to jump and not going after him after he picks off the pass.

Dougie isn't as bad as Aggo states offensively because his 3 ball is alive but he is approaching Nate territory with his point play. He's not as fun to watch anymore, which is sad because I think he's a good guy and all but I can't gravitate to selfish basketball players no matter how endearing their personalities are. Maybe coach is to blame here again allowing players to do whatever they want, regardless I do not like it at all.

another play, jru was wide open in the corner, douglas didn't want to leave his man, and let jru set up and take an uncontested three. you have to run at that shooter and make him pass.

I don't want to pick on douglas, but I want him to get back to doing the little things that got him playing time..

Yeah I remember this one too. Bottom corner 3. Jru was...Que tu quieres mujeres, said she blow la-la FLIPSIDE - and she my baby mama Flipside Get Wild dancing in the corner like he was about to be in a video shoot practicing his hood stuff for Volume II before he shot the 3.

[Justdatdude]

I watched the game live yesterday and was so mad at the outcome, I didn't come near a computer. It was just a bad loss and I'm sure everything I want to say have been said. I just want to touch on Toney Douglas because I see a lot of people aren't happy with his play.

Coming into the league, we knew three things about Douglas. 1, he's a good scorer. 2, he's a good defender. 3, he isn't a point guard. 2 years into the NBA, we know 3 things about Douglas. 1, he's a good scorer. 2, he's a good defender. 3, he isn't a point guard.

I don't mind this guy coming into the game throwing up shots. Scoring is his main offensive trait and I don't want him to go away from it. You want your bench players to give you a boost in energy, get the game moving, create havoc. That is what he does. Chandler is a good basketball player, but he isn't a player that you look to bring off the bench to get points in bunches. Like Terry, JR Smith, Ben Gordon, and D'Antoni's old 6th men Leandro Barbosa and Nate Robinson, Douglas is the type of player you bring in to put points on the board. A passing point guard isn't needed for 48 minutes a game, especially when you don't have many "scorers" on a team (don't confuse the team scoring a lot of points as the team having a lot of scorers). There should be a line where D'Antoni tells Douglas not to cross and to calm down, but it isn't. This is D'Antoni's style of play and its not necessarily wrong. When you have a player like Douglas who can score and do it efficiently, you allow him to score. Let him play his game if it means he will continue to bring it on the other end. He isn't a good passer nor does he have good court vision.

One of the problems I have with a lot of coaches is they try to build their own player. They don't try to improve them, they try to break them, and make the player how they want the player. Most of the times it don't work out. Coaches need to let players do what they're good at and try to get them to be better at another thing. In this case, D'Antoni need to let Douglas shoot and score. However, help him learn the point guard position.

[Knicks D]

This loss comes down to two issues. One obvious and the other not so obvious.

1). Obvious: Bad 3pt shooting game.
2). Non-Obvious: Sitting Landry Fields for way too long.

Your second point really doesn't say a lot for the rest of this team. A team with Amare, Gallo, and Felton should have to rely on a second round pick to win games.

[earthmansurfer]

This loss comes down to two issues. One obvious and the other not so obvious.

1). Obvious: Bad 3pt shooting game.
2). Non-Obvious: Sitting Landry Fields for way too long.

Your second point really doesn't say a lot for the rest of this team. A team with Amare, Gallo, and Felton should have to rely on a second round pick to win games.

So in other words you are basing you argument on where a player was drafted rather than the skills they bring.

[TheBluest]

I watched the game live yesterday and was so mad at the outcome, I didn't come near a computer. It was just a bad loss and I'm sure everything I want to say have been said. I just want to touch on Toney Douglas because I see a lot of people aren't happy with his play.

Coming into the league, we knew three things about Douglas. 1, he's a good scorer. 2, he's a good defender. 3, he isn't a point guard. 2 years into the NBA, we know 3 things about Douglas. 1, he's a good scorer. 2, he's a good defender. 3, he isn't a point guard.

I don't mind this guy coming into the game throwing up shots. Scoring is his main offensive trait and I don't want him to go away from it. You want your bench players to give you a boost in energy, get the game moving, create havoc. That is what he does. Chandler is a good basketball player, but he isn't a player that you look to bring off the bench to get points in bunches. Like Terry, JR Smith, Ben Gordon, and D'Antoni's old 6th men Leandro Barbosa and Nate Robinson, Douglas is the type of player you bring in to put points on the board. A passing point guard isn't needed for 48 minutes a game, especially when you don't have many "scorers" on a team (don't confuse the team scoring a lot of points as the team having a lot of scorers). There should be a line where D'Antoni tells Douglas not to cross and to calm down, but it isn't. This is D'Antoni's style of play and its not necessarily wrong. When you have a player like Douglas who can score and do it efficiently, you allow him to score. Let him play his game if it means he will continue to bring it on the other end. He isn't a good passer nor does he have good court vision.

One of the problems I have with a lot of coaches is they try to build their own player. They don't try to improve them, they try to break them, and make the player how they want the player. Most of the times it don't work out. Coaches need to let players do what they're good at and try to get them to be better at another thing. In this case, D'Antoni need to let Douglas shoot and score. However, help him learn the point guard position.

So this is a long winded way of saying less Nate more George Hill.... because the only way you improve your point play is by giving up some of what you do well to improve in an area you're weak at. It's not to be translated as ditch Nate and become George Hill, although some would take this.

[TKF]

Yeah I remember this one too. Bottom corner 3. Jru was...Que tu quieres mujeres, said she blow la-la FLIPSIDE - and she my baby mama Flipside Get Wild dancing in the corner like he was about to be in a video shoot practicing his hood stuff for Volume II before he shot the 3.

HAHA.. you crazy bro..

[Justdatdude]

I watched the game live yesterday and was so mad at the outcome, I didn't come near a computer. It was just a bad loss and I'm sure everything I want to say have been said. I just want to touch on Toney Douglas because I see a lot of people aren't happy with his play.

Coming into the league, we knew three things about Douglas. 1, he's a good scorer. 2, he's a good defender. 3, he isn't a point guard. 2 years into the NBA, we know 3 things about Douglas. 1, he's a good scorer. 2, he's a good defender. 3, he isn't a point guard.

I don't mind this guy coming into the game throwing up shots. Scoring is his main offensive trait and I don't want him to go away from it. You want your bench players to give you a boost in energy, get the game moving, create havoc. That is what he does. Chandler is a good basketball player, but he isn't a player that you look to bring off the bench to get points in bunches. Like Terry, JR Smith, Ben Gordon, and D'Antoni's old 6th men Leandro Barbosa and Nate Robinson, Douglas is the type of player you bring in to put points on the board. A passing point guard isn't needed for 48 minutes a game, especially when you don't have many "scorers" on a team (don't confuse the team scoring a lot of points as the team having a lot of scorers). There should be a line where D'Antoni tells Douglas not to cross and to calm down, but it isn't. This is D'Antoni's style of play and its not necessarily wrong. When you have a player like Douglas who can score and do it efficiently, you allow him to score. Let him play his game if it means he will continue to bring it on the other end. He isn't a good passer nor does he have good court vision.

One of the problems I have with a lot of coaches is they try to build their own player. They don't try to improve them, they try to break them, and make the player how they want the player. Most of the times it don't work out. Coaches need to let players do what they're good at and try to get them to be better at another thing. In this case, D'Antoni need to let Douglas shoot and score. However, help him learn the point guard position.

So this is a long winded way of saying less Nate more George Hill.... because the only way you improve your point play is by giving up some of what you do well to improve in an area you're weak at. It's not to be translated as ditch Nate and become George Hill, although some would take this.

Actually, its a long winded way of saying more Nate. MORE NATE. I don't know how you feel about Nate, but tunnel vision is something Nate did not have. Passing ability is something Nate did have. Nate scored because it was something he was able to do and he did it well, however Nate was also a pretty good passer and did hit the open man when the man was opened. As a backup guard with good scoring ability, I want that guard to go ahead and shoot the ball, but if you're going to play the point position, be able to pass well. Nate did everything well besides defend. You can talk about his antics and how he often chose to be flashy, but he produced on the court. Besides defense, there is nothing in Nate's game that I would say he is weak at.

This isn't to say that I'm not a fan of Douglas game. That would be foolish to say as he has been playing very well. I just want improved passing and court vision. That's it. I don't mind him scoring, but be a solid passer at least.

[NewEra]

This loss tought me NEVER to assume anything when it comes to the Knicks.

[TheBluest]

Actually, its a long winded way of saying more Nate. MORE NATE. I don't know how you feel about Nate, but tunnel vision is something Nate did not have. Passing ability is something Nate did have. Nate scored because it was something he was able to do and he did it well, however Nate was also a pretty good passer and did hit the open man when the man was opened. As a backup guard with good scoring ability, I want that guard to go ahead and shoot the ball, but if you're going to play the point position, be able to pass well. Nate did everything well besides defend. You can talk about his antics and how he often chose to be flashy, but he produced on the court. Besides defense, there is nothing in Nate's game that I would say he is weak at.

This isn't to say that I'm not a fan of Douglas game. That would be foolish to say as he has been playing very well. I just want improved passing and court vision. That's it. I don't mind him scoring, but be a solid passer at least.

We'll have to disagree. Nate was good off penetration at times and found roller baseline going to the rim but Nate dribbled and dribbled and dribbled and dribbled and dribbled until he got a shot off or the clock ran out. 4rth qrts last year and year prior too he was not a willing passer but a gunner. Dougie has passing ability as he is able to find Turiaf and Walker at times but he has to be first option in all scenarios. The only difference in Nate and Dougie besides athleticism and D is Nate would eat the clock up with his dribbling...Dougie looks off players with his dribbling.


Oh and if Dougie was any more like Nate he wouldn't be playing....lol


EDIT: One again that's not to say Dougie and Nate aren't similar in some ways, they are but they go about doing things slightly different. Dougie might be a better shooter than Nate too. The 3 ball is definitely his saving grace otherwise I doubt he'd get PT.

[Pedro Pistolas]

Toney right now isn't confident in his passing ability...I dont know how many times he failed to pass to a open player under the hoop...
He looks them off and either shoots a wild floater or dribbles around the court and passes it to chandler/ gallinari so they can try to iso their defenders..
I guess Toney is what he is which isnt a bad thing but I'm hoping D'Antoni is grooming Rautins to become our backup PG. Toney will still get minutes backing up the shooting guard

[Knicks D]

This loss comes down to two issues. One obvious and the other not so obvious.

1). Obvious: Bad 3pt shooting game.
2). Non-Obvious: Sitting Landry Fields for way too long.

Your second point really doesn't say a lot for the rest of this team. A team with Amare, Gallo, and Felton should have to rely on a second round pick to win games.

So in other words you are basing you argument on where a player was drafted rather than the skills they bring.

I don't think I said anything negative about the player, more so the rest of the team.

[2010]

This loss comes down to two issues. One obvious and the other not so obvious.

1). Obvious: Bad 3pt shooting game.
2). Non-Obvious: Sitting Landry Fields for way too long.

Your second point really doesn't say a lot for the rest of this team. A team with Amare, Gallo, and Felton should have to rely on a second round pick to win games.

To be honest I could care less about how my second statement indicts the rest of the team. All I care about is winning games. Fact of the matter is that although Fields made two mistakes (jumping for Williams headfakes and fouling twice on two 3pt shot attempts), still...good things happen when he is on the court. I trust him down the stretch more than other players who have more experience. You can take it however you want.

[2010]

Toney right now isn't confident in his passing ability...I dont know how many times he failed to pass to a open player under the hoop...
He looks them off and either shoots a wild floater or dribbles around the court and passes it to chandler/ gallinari so they can try to iso their defenders..
I guess Toney is what he is which isnt a bad thing but I'm hoping D'Antoni is grooming Rautins to become our backup PG. Toney will still get minutes backing up the shooting guard

I agree with most of what you said but Rautins is horrible. He is not a rotation NBA player on a winning team. He is NOT a pg. Not quick enough, not enough handle and the one thing he is supposed to be good at (shooting) he is streaky at. Rautins is what he is...a safe pick, 11th-12th man.

[NoLayupRule]

Rautlins is clealy not a point but he does have a very good passing touch.

[2010]

Rautlins is clealy not a point but he does have a very good passing touch.

True but the one thing about a good passing point is that they need to have a handle to get into the paint, make the defense converge on them and then find the open man. This is the problem that makes me determine that Rautins will never be a point unless he dramatically improves his handle. He has no left hand and he is not a good dribbler even with his strong hand (right) so he often gives up his dribble if the defense pressures him. This negates his passing skills because he cannot effectively use a dribble to get into the paint and draw defenders. Since he gives up his dribble on the perimeter it cuts down his options on who he can pass to. Where Rautins has shown to be a good passer is in the open court or when the defense isn't set and he has a running start to the rim, or when he is on the perimeter and gets a pass then swings it to the weakside to another jumpshooter.

[towelie]

I don't know if it's lack of court vision on Toney's part, or simply the reluctance to make a tough pass. It's as if for all the great instincts and anticipation he has for covering the passing lanes and stealing the ball on defense...gets turned upside down on offense. He's afraid to make those passes out of fear that someone is watching the passing lanes and will intercept it.

I mean, how many times have we ever really seen Toney thread the needle on a pass?

[thisiskoz]

I don't know if it's lack of court vision on Toney's part, or simply the reluctance to make a tough pass. It's as if for all the great instincts and anticipation he has for covering the passing lanes and stealing the ball on defense...gets turned upside down on offense. He's afraid to make those passes out of fear that someone is watching the passing lanes and will intercept it.

I mean, how many times have we ever really seen Toney thread the needle on a pass?

this is something ive been saying this season... i feel like he sees the open guy... but doesnt want to make the pass... and i think this mentality will forever be his major hurdle in developing those point guard instincts we wish he would show...

and i agree about rautins not being a realistic answer to our pg problems.. that said... if theres one quality i like about rautins its that he usually makes what i would dub "attacking" passes... rather then just swinging it around the outside... he seems to be the only guy looking to make that pass to the interior from the outside... and put any kind of pressure on the defense... and with all the zone he played at syracuse.... perhaps he might get a look in some sort of a zone busting offense... as we seem to be having real trouble when the opponent goes zone...