Last 10 seconds - Lebron vs Kobe

[Gongxi]

Whoa, nice comeback. It must be that genius-level intelligence you talk about in every post you make. A rebound measures a rebound, but it depends on how you got that rebound, what team you were on, who you got that rebound against, when you got it, how it affected the game, what position you play, pace of the game, number of shots missed by either team, etc. Of course it's not meant to incorporate the entire context, but without the context you don't actually know anything -- except, of course, that at some time, that player got a rebound. "Statistics can only measure what is it they're supposed to measure." Insightful.

I talk about what every post?

I don't think you understand statistics.

What, pray tell, do you do involving statistics in your daily life?

I'm an intelligence analyst. But it's not all about statistics anyway, it's about understanding that you need verifiable facts and falsifiable evidence to reach rational conclusions, not subjective opinions.

Beyond that, in the dude's example about the rebound, he just listed other stats that are also pertinent to the situation. That doesn't do anything to dissuade anyone of even moderate intelligence that stats are bad or lie, it just proves that people who don't know how to use stats are at a disadvantage. Didn't we already know that?

[bl2k]

^
Kobe had 1 assist in that true hoop article a little while back.

The guy doesn't pass in the last 10 seconds.

he passes in the last seconds I don't know where he got that from, 10 seconds 30 seconds are still last moments
2:43
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG_R1B_k140#t=02m43s[/youtube]
3:01
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM8qO-2GUAw#t=03m01s[/youtube]
3:25
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3c0CfiWwvE#t=03m25s[/youtube]

[rrravenred]

THis thread is specifically about the last 10 seconds (it's arbitrary, absolutely) though.

[menofvalor]

Lebron, he would drive to the hole instead of taking a contested 40 footer.

[bballcool34]

I don't care how much time is left on the clock. The only 3 people in the league I want shooting a clutch shot when my team needs it the most are:

Kobe
Wade
Durant


And in this order.

Ray Allen is more clutch than Durante. Easily.

[MSGBallerz]

Kobe. Most competitive drive to win in the history of the NBA.

[rrravenred]

Bird? Russell? Jordan? Hell, even Magic's got a case for most competitive will to win.

[Asianiac_24]

I really don't understand how anyone can think Kobe is not clutch. From what I've seen for the past decade, the Lakers have ALWAYS been one of the best teams in clutch, even when the team was a solo Kobe show in 06 and 07.

Lebron is clutch? Miami believed that statistics from 82games.com and look how that turned out for them this year

[rrravenred]

Small sample size, much? Besides. Clutch is more than the last 10 seconds or indeed taking the last shot.

[ElGee]

I really don't understand how anyone can think Kobe is not clutch. From what I've seen for the past decade, the Lakers have ALWAYS been one of the best teams in clutch, even when the team was a solo Kobe show in 06 and 07.

Lebron is clutch? Miami believed that statistics from 82games.com and look how that turned out for them this year

What does that even mean? Miami still has one of the better offenses down the stretch, despite a clear lack of role players, team continuity, offensive chemistry, etc. And that in spite of the failures in the final 10 seconds over a handful of games (someone on CBS broke down every possession, and it's hard to find a lot "wrong" other than a few plays. And what team doesn't have that?

People think Kobe isn't clutch because his decision making can be bonkers and they look at 31% on game-winning shots and don't understand that's right around league average. I mean, I presume you don't think LeBron's clutch because he's not a good outside shooter. :shrug:

[Asianiac_24]

I really don't understand how anyone can think Kobe is not clutch. From what I've seen for the past decade, the Lakers have ALWAYS been one of the best teams in clutch, even when the team was a solo Kobe show in 06 and 07.

Lebron is clutch? Miami believed that statistics from 82games.com and look how that turned out for them this year

What does that even mean? Miami still has one of the better offenses down the stretch, despite a clear lack of role players, team continuity, offensive chemistry, etc. And that in spite of the failures in the final 10 seconds over a handful of games (someone on CBS broke down every possession, and it's hard to find a lot "wrong" other than a few plays. And what team doesn't have that?

People think Kobe isn't clutch because his decision making can be bonkers and they look at 31% on game-winning shots and don't understand that's right around league average. I mean, I presume you don't think LeBron's clutch because he's not a good outside shooter. :shrug:

Have you been watching the games this year or were you too busy reading box scores and statistics? Miami has failed numerous times going to Lebron in the clutch. Don't get me wrong I think LeBron is the best player in the league currently, but the guy simply isn't a guy you would want taking the last shot for your team, especially with a guy like Dwyane Wade.

As for the lack of team chemistry and team continuity, who's fault is it? We are about 15 games away from the playoffs, that stupid excuse doesn't cut it anymore. Lack of role players? You mean a top 3 player in Wade and a top 15 in Bosh isn't enough for LeBron? Maybe he should stop holding the ball on the top of the key for so damn long.

I actually think LeBron is a decent shooter, but he just doesn't shoot very well on last shot scenarios, and I think Miami this year proved my point pretty well.

[ElGee]

I really don't understand how anyone can think Kobe is not clutch. From what I've seen for the past decade, the Lakers have ALWAYS been one of the best teams in clutch, even when the team was a solo Kobe show in 06 and 07.

Lebron is clutch? Miami believed that statistics from 82games.com and look how that turned out for them this year

What does that even mean? Miami still has one of the better offenses down the stretch, despite a clear lack of role players, team continuity, offensive chemistry, etc. And that in spite of the failures in the final 10 seconds over a handful of games (someone on CBS broke down every possession, and it's hard to find a lot "wrong" other than a few plays. And what team doesn't have that?

People think Kobe isn't clutch because his decision making can be bonkers and they look at 31% on game-winning shots and don't understand that's right around league average. I mean, I presume you don't think LeBron's clutch because he's not a good outside shooter. :shrug:

Have you been watching the games this year or were you too busy reading box scores and statistics? Miami has failed numerous times going to Lebron in the clutch. Don't get me wrong I think LeBron is the best player in the league currently, but the guy simply isn't a guy you would want taking the last shot for your team, especially with a guy like Dwyane Wade.

As for the lack of team chemistry and team continuity, who's fault is it? We are about 15 games away from the playoffs, that stupid excuse doesn't cut it anymore. Lack of role players? You mean a top 3 player in Wade and a top 15 in Bosh isn't enough for LeBron? Maybe he should stop holding the ball on the top of the key for so damn long.

I actually think LeBron is a decent shooter, but he just doesn't shoot very well on last shot scenarios, and I think Miami this year proved my point pretty well.

No, I don't watch basketball. I'm a robot. :/

This post isn't related to your last post, which is what I was responding to. You said

"Lebron is lutch? Miami believe that statistics from 82games.com and look how that turned out for them this year. lol"

I don't understand what that means. Should they have not believed them? How did it turn out -- did the Heat stink? I assume you're alluding to their documented struggles in the final 10 seconds of games, but dude, that is super small-sample sized and super-specific criteria. Since LeBron has been a closing machine for 3 years, it would be logical to conclude that the change in roles has created a bump in the road, would it not? (And again, Miami is *still* one of the better offensives down the stretch.)

Who's fault is the lack of chemistry? What does that have to do with being clutch?

Yes, believe it or not, you can't win 3 on 5, especially win redundant talent.

What exactly has happened this year to confirm your belief that he doesn't shoot well on last shot scenarios? That he missed 5 jump shots? That did it for you?

*miss contested 3 twice against Hawks
*miss contested 3 against Chicago
*miss contested 3 against Knicks
*miss open 3 against Magic

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssport ... 4/27823071