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I'd be pissed if Luc is not on this team under any reasonable circumstance. Luc and Bogut are the only players on this team that are elite at anything.

UWM_Brew_Buck wrote:I'd be pissed if Luc is not on this team under any reasonable circumstance. Luc and Bogut are the only players on this team that are elite at anything.

Yup. And their strengths are directly tied into Skiles' approach. That's why I'm not giving up hope yet that Moute will be re-signed.

paulpressey25 wrote:

InsideOut wrote: For me not only has Hammond ruined the regular season but the off season as well.

Thankfully the shelf life of bad GM's across all sports has come down. It used to be these guys got five full years until the fans got smarter and realized you usually know if you've got a competent GM after three seasons on the job.

But unfortunately we've got Hammond in that awful "year four" period. We know he's probably going to be a bust and get replaced in a year from now, but he's still on the job for the upcoming season.

He likely doesn't have the time nor the political capital to make major changes. So we're stuck with him doing some half-assed win-now stuff to save his job.

Unfortunately I disagree. We'll win 41ish next season and we'll have to listen to how he's doing a great job and that will show this season flop was due to injuries. We'll listen to how he made the team better 3 out of 4 season and won the exec of the year award. Fans will be pumped we're back in the playoffs and how he has us headed in the right direction.

Those of us that know better will ask the usual questions like has he brought in an above average starter and how will we get to the next level with few assets and picking 15th. However, that will fall on deaf ears and as euphoria of 41 wins and a 1st round beating will be enough to rally his supports and keep him in office. Year 5 people will figuring we're just spinning our wheels and maybe he'll get the ax. Man the NBA around here is just dead. I mean what do you see PP as the most exciting thing to look forward too? BJ in year 3, our lotto pick at 10, Gooden being healthy… I think we'll see a good sized drop in fans next season.

I asked for Luc's trade at the deadline, but at this point, I'd really prefer he walk. Aside from wanting to just be bad so we can tank and Luc hurts that effort, I just would love to see this franchise get over its love of random role players (Luc is good, don't get me wrong) and worrying about locking them up long-term before we ever get any sort of elite player(s).

europa wrote:

UWM_Brew_Buck wrote:I'd be pissed if Luc is not on this team under any reasonable circumstance. Luc and Bogut are the only players on this team that are elite at anything.

Yup. And their strengths are directly tied into Skiles' approach. That's why I'm not giving up hope yet that Moute will be re-signed.

40-45 wins. Sign those role players up and get it done! Yes we can with zero plan!

MFScho wrote:but my main point is that we shouldn't be using our assets to look for Bogut's backup. We weren't on the cusp of the ECF, so I don't know why they prepare like we are.

I do think with some reworks over the summer, including acquiring a legit backup five at least as good as Nazr would give this team the potential to win 45-50 games next year.

But it will be a short-lived success as there doesn't appear to be a foundation of young talent to sustain it. It also will depend almost entirely on getting 75 really good games out of Bogut.

I'm not sure what other plan Hammond has. There are only three options to change our fate from hoping all goes well and we win 45-games.

1) Trade Bogut in some blockbuster where we take a step back to take two steps forward
2) Land a Paul Pierce or Brook Lopez type talent with the 10th pick. Someone who will be an all-star that can contribute right away.
3) Hammond fleeces another team in a win-now trade. Think Maggette/Gooden/#10 for Danny Granger or something like that.

InsideOut wrote:Unfortunately I disagree. We'll win 41ish next season and we'll have to listen to how he's doing a great job and that will show this season flop was due to injuries. We'll listen to how he made the team better 3 out of 4 season and won the exec of the year award. Fans will be pumped we're back in the playoffs and how he has us headed in the right direction.

I too see this scenario as perhaps likely. See post above.

On the other hand, there are factors out there for a total Lindy Infante 1991 meltdown season as well.

GrendonJennings wrote:40-45 wins. Sign those role players up and get it done! Yes we can with zero plan!

40-45 wins is this forum's rallying cry but not mine. I would prefer to keep good players. Moute is an exceptional defensive player, he's young and I believe he'll be cheap to keep. I see no good reason to let him walk if his market value is reasonable. Every team could use a player like that.

europa wrote:

GrendonJennings wrote:40-45 wins. Sign those role players up and get it done! Yes we can with zero plan!

40-45 wins is this forum's rallying cry but not mine. I would prefer to keep good players. Moute is an exceptional defensive player, he's young and I believe he'll be cheap to keep. I see no good reason to let him walk if his market value is reasonable. Every team could use a player like that.

Listen, once again, you're doing the same thing the Bucks have done the past 20 years.

I like Luc and think he's good. But you lack a plan, just like Hammond. Is Luc worth more than 3/12 or whatever he may get? Hell yes he is. He's really good at what he does.

That said, we will NOT ever be in contention during the terms of his contract. We need to stop spending cash on guys that are role players in some various fashion, stop worrying about if our 7th man is better than the Lakers 8th man, etc.

We need #1. I don't give a **** about players 4 through 12 in our rotation right now unless they have a chance to move up to #1 or are very young guys that could become a very nice #5.

Again, just like Hammond, you have no idea how this all works. It was the same with RJ. Was he an upgrade over what we traded? Of course. Would he ever play a part of a contending team given his salary put us up to the cap? Not a chance in hell.

Moute is perfect for the Lakers, Thunder, etc. Serves minimal purpose for the Bucks.

paulpressey25 wrote:

InsideOut wrote:Unfortunately I disagree. We'll win 41ish next season and we'll have to listen to how he's doing a great job and that will show this season flop was due to injuries. We'll listen to how he made the team better 3 out of 4 season and won the exec of the year award. Fans will be pumped we're back in the playoffs and how he has us headed in the right direction.

I too see this scenario as perhaps likely. See post above.

On the other hand, there are factors out there for a total Lindy Infante 1991 meltdown season as well.

I agree and see so much of the Infante scenario in the Bucks/Hammond right now.

I just don't see any way to get better with how Hammond is running things. Just look at the list of guys he's brought through here. That list is historically crappy. I mean in 3 years who is the single best player he's added to this team? How can you get better with these type of players?

GrendonJennings wrote:

europa wrote:

UWM_Brew_Buck wrote:I'd be pissed if Luc is not on this team under any reasonable circumstance. Luc and Bogut are the only players on this team that are elite at anything.

Yup. And their strengths are directly tied into Skiles' approach. That's why I'm not giving up hope yet that Moute will be re-signed.

40-45 wins. Sign those role players up and get it done! Yes we can with zero plan!

We've on more than 45 games once in the last 10 seasons. I'd be happy to see this team get 45 wins next year.

UWM_Brew_Buck wrote:We've on more than 45 games once in the last 10 seasons. I'd be happy to see this team get 45 wins next year.

Chalk up another fan that doesn't want to see us win a playoff series over the next decade.

The 45 wins part of it was if everything goes right. Fat chance.

GrendonJennings wrote:[
Again, just like Hammond, you have no idea how this all works. It was the same with RJ. Was he an upgrade over what we traded? Of course. Would he ever play a part of a contending team given his salary put us up to the cap? Not a chance in hell.

Moute is perfect for the Lakers, Thunder, etc. Serves minimal purpose for the Bucks.

So 70% of teams or more shouldn't bother resigning valuable players because they don't have what's considered to be a super star?

GrendonJennings wrote:Listen, once again, you're doing the same thing the Bucks have done the past 20 years.

I disagree. Now if I told you I wanted to re-sign Moute for 5/$45M then you might have a point. You seem to think that I'm oblivious to the team's need to get more players as good or (preferably) better than Bogut when I'm not. All I'm saying is that any team could use a good, young, cheap player such as Moute. As long as his price is reasonable I see no reason to let him go.

And I'm well aware how "this thing works." Where you and I differ is I do not believe there is only path that can be accessed to build a contending team. The fact you disagree doesn't mean I have no plan or do not understand how "this thing works." It simply means I'm not going to limit my options when it comes to trying to improve this team.

smooth 'lil balla wrote:

GrendonJennings wrote:[
Again, just like Hammond, you have no idea how this all works. It was the same with RJ. Was he an upgrade over what we traded? Of course. Would he ever play a part of a contending team given his salary put us up to the cap? Not a chance in hell.

Moute is perfect for the Lakers, Thunder, etc. Serves minimal purpose for the Bucks.

So 70% of teams or more shouldn't bother resigning valuable players because they don't have what's considered to be a super star?

That's exactly right. The Bulls, Heat, Celtics, and Thunder let a ton of these guys walk because of a long term plan of varying degrees. They even traded some away for *gasp* almost nothing!

Sure, Haslem is still there and Collison stayed, but for the most part, a lot of these team's major players were shipped off.

paulpressey25 wrote:
On the other hand, there are factors out there for a total Lindy Infante 1991 meltdown season as well.

I think that will happen if a move isn't made or if the draft pick is a project. The couple of good players on the current roster will quit if they don't see legit talent brought in that can help.

In my opinion, this is the year to trade Bogut for prospects/picks, and tank from the start. But that won't happen.

I'd prefer Burks at 10, but I don't think he'll be there. Like I said before, Leonard has a lot of potential, but isn't going to do much right away. Singleton isn't a lottery pick, in my opinion. That leaves Faried as the guy that best fits their intentions, out of the rumored players.

Maybe it all changes tomorrow night? Doubt it though.

europa wrote:

GrendonJennings wrote:Listen, once again, you're doing the same thing the Bucks have done the past 20 years.

I disagree. Now if I told you I wanted to re-sign Moute for 5/$45M then you might have a point. You seem to think that I'm oblivious to the team's need to get more players as good or (preferably) better than Bogut when I'm not. All I'm saying is that any team could use a good, young, cheap player such as Moute. As long as his price is reasonable I see no reason to let him go.

The terms of the contract mean almost nothing to me. Again, we're in a hole that is going to take longer than 2-3 years to fix. Whether Moute is paid 4 for 20 or 5 for 45, we're going to waste that excess space not paying for him in filler crap on a non-contending team.

This is the only part of the theory that not everybody should agree with me on and will never happen: Moute (especially being cheap) is keeping us from the high lottery. Let him go.

europa wrote: As long as his price is reasonable I see no reason to let him go.

Would you match an offer sheet from the Lakers for 4/$20? (assuming CBA hasn't totally changed)

GrendonJennings wrote:

UWM_Brew_Buck wrote:We've on more than 45 games once in the last 10 seasons. I'd be happy to see this team get 45 wins next year.

Chalk up another fan that doesn't want to see us win a playoff series over the next decade.

The 45 wins part of it was if everything goes right. Fat chance.

Wut?

What would the Bucks include with Maggette to nab a Childress / Lopez package?

Would prefer to deal Gooden for him obviously...but even if that ship has sailed, for better or worse, Hammond is probably the biggest fan of Childress in the league.