Stan Van Gundy says lebron already betta than mj

[LordBaldric]

In 1996, I got to see MJ play live in Cleveland. It was a relatively boring game with the Bulls up 10+ for most of it. Then there was some skirmish between Bob Sura and MJ early in the 4th. Jordan then went on to destroy the Cavs with dunk after dunk.

Jordan often spoke about sitting back in games. He was on a team that he knew he was going to win. He had it on cruise control during the regular season. Every once in a while he would hit the gas pedal but for the most part you didn't see the real Jordan until the playoffs. That's why he is one of the few people who's playoff stats are generally better than his regular season stats.

I'm obviously a Jordan fan.

This year is the first time I have ever seen a player who looks like he is toying with the NBA other than Jordan. Lebron has taken it to a different level versus his past self. He looks like he is just screwing around and can kill an opponent whenever he chooses.

For the first time, I think there is a player that is a legit conversation with MJ for goat. The Kobe stuff was always a joke. Kobe was just always a lesser version of MJ. Lebron's skill set is different, but the level of domination is similar to MJ at his peak.

Stan Van Gundy is a troll though. I suspect its from the 90's where his coaching tree was getting smashed annually by MJ.

Wilt is in a legit conversation with MJ for goat and anyone who doesn't think so is a damn fool. Hell, even when they asked MJ if he's the greatest ever he said couldn't say so. The first words out of his mouth were "That would be disrespectful to Wilt Chamberlain."

[sportjames23]

This is why Stan has no coaching job.

[coldfish]

In 1996, I got to see MJ play live in Cleveland. It was a relatively boring game with the Bulls up 10+ for most of it. Then there was some skirmish between Bob Sura and MJ early in the 4th. Jordan then went on to destroy the Cavs with dunk after dunk.

Jordan often spoke about sitting back in games. He was on a team that he knew he was going to win. He had it on cruise control during the regular season. Every once in a while he would hit the gas pedal but for the most part you didn't see the real Jordan until the playoffs. That's why he is one of the few people who's playoff stats are generally better than his regular season stats.

I'm obviously a Jordan fan.

This year is the first time I have ever seen a player who looks like he is toying with the NBA other than Jordan. Lebron has taken it to a different level versus his past self. He looks like he is just screwing around and can kill an opponent whenever he chooses.

For the first time, I think there is a player that is a legit conversation with MJ for goat. The Kobe stuff was always a joke. Kobe was just always a lesser version of MJ. Lebron's skill set is different, but the level of domination is similar to MJ at his peak.

Stan Van Gundy is a troll though. I suspect its from the 90's where his coaching tree was getting smashed annually by MJ.

Wilt is in a legit conversation with MJ for goat and anyone who doesn't think so is a damn fool. Hell, even when they asked MJ if he's the greatest ever he said couldn't say so. The first words out of his mouth were "That would be disrespectful to Wilt Chamberlain."

I never saw Wilt play and I dare say most of the people here haven't either. The ones that have are senile by now and probably think that cell phones were better in the 60's.

Maybe Wilt was, but everything was so different in the 60's its hard to even have a conversation.

[kamelion4291]

Guy with a Skip Bayless avatar trashing on LeBron. Who knew?!

[LordBaldric]

In 1996, I got to see MJ play live in Cleveland. It was a relatively boring game with the Bulls up 10+ for most of it. Then there was some skirmish between Bob Sura and MJ early in the 4th. Jordan then went on to destroy the Cavs with dunk after dunk.

Jordan often spoke about sitting back in games. He was on a team that he knew he was going to win. He had it on cruise control during the regular season. Every once in a while he would hit the gas pedal but for the most part you didn't see the real Jordan until the playoffs. That's why he is one of the few people who's playoff stats are generally better than his regular season stats.

I'm obviously a Jordan fan.

This year is the first time I have ever seen a player who looks like he is toying with the NBA other than Jordan. Lebron has taken it to a different level versus his past self. He looks like he is just screwing around and can kill an opponent whenever he chooses.

For the first time, I think there is a player that is a legit conversation with MJ for goat. The Kobe stuff was always a joke. Kobe was just always a lesser version of MJ. Lebron's skill set is different, but the level of domination is similar to MJ at his peak.

Stan Van Gundy is a troll though. I suspect its from the 90's where his coaching tree was getting smashed annually by MJ.

Wilt is in a legit conversation with MJ for goat and anyone who doesn't think so is a damn fool. Hell, even when they asked MJ if he's the greatest ever he said couldn't say so. The first words out of his mouth were "That would be disrespectful to Wilt Chamberlain."

I never saw Wilt play and I dare say most of the people here haven't either. The ones that have are senile by now and probably think that cell phones were better in the 60's.

Maybe Wilt was, but everything was so different in the 60's its hard to even have a conversation.

Just like you'll get all these young kids coming up now who never saw MJ play and will disregard his achievements in favor of whoever the flavor of the month is. I think it's pretty sad.

[acrossthecourt]

He's actually made fun of PER. He had a whole thing on the show where he listed what the all-star team would look like if it was done just by PER to show how ridiculous the stat was to use on it's own.

People just plain making **** up in this thread to see what will stick. That's how mad they are I guess.

You are saying I'm making things up?

I'm saying, that saying that SVG is somehow out there pushing PER because his brother works for ESPN--is making things up. Especially given how he's ridiculed it's usage on the Lebatard show.

Do you have any other explaination why SVG would make such a ridiculous statement then? It was speculation evidenced by the word probably.[/quote]

This comment makes absolutely NO SENSE.

First of all, using PER to discredit Jordan is silly because Jordan's career PER is still higher and he has a higher single season PER.

Second of all, why is there some conspiracy in ESPN pushing PER as a stat? You really think ESPN is thinking, Hey, we need more money. How about we use a former coach who isn't that famous to tout the virtues of PER secretly by saying LeBron is better than Jordan?

How does this make any sense?

[Johnny Firpo]

Well, he isn't. But in terms of impact amongst perimeter players since MJ, he's a lot closer than anybody ever was. Kobe never played at that level.

[coldfish]

Just like you'll get all these young kids coming up now who never saw MJ play and will disregard his achievements in favor of whoever the flavor of the month is. I think it's pretty sad.

The difference is film. You can see MJ play even if you weren't alive at the time. Stats and box scores are fully available. Yeah, you can get some kiddies thinking MJ was overrated but its easily dispelled with several hundred hours of youtube videos.

What videos exist of Wilt show a completely different league. Players running around doing things that you can't get away with in high school nowadays. Its hard to project a person coming from such a different era. I'm not saying you are wrong, I just don't even see the point of having the conversation.

[acrossthecourt]

Here's another note: don't take the name of PER (player efficiency rating) too seriously. It's not about just efficiency. Usage is a big factor, and LeBron playing with two other all-stars actually hurts his PER because he gets less shots. If he was the only big time scorer like in Cleveland he'd be scoring more points and could possibly have an even higher PER (even though he's near the all-time mark.)

People are also comparing LeBron to Jordan at every level of his career, which isn't too fair. Jordan developed the post game later (LeBron is now too.) He won the championships later when he had better teammates. He has a huge breadth of a career, and LeBron is still in his prime. Let's not go too crazy yet. Let's at least wait until LeBron is 35 or something.

[The Evidence]

Jordan shooting over quadruple teams hurts your argument, not helps it. LeBron is smart and doesn't take those terrible shots like Kobe routinely does. Plus, who the hell was quadruple teaming Jordan when he was taking a jumper? LeBron has a higher career 3fg% than Jordan did.

These Jordan homers are insane. It's like they think that everything Jordan did he was better than anybody else in history at.

Quadruple team is hyperbole for facing way more defensive attention and pressure. Perhaps I should have said quintuple team. Obviouly the triangle minimized quintiple teams but learn to read in between the lines

Lebron is a higher 3P%? .336 vs .327 And on shots he's largely open and being dared to shoot. I'm sure if we looked at 2P jumpers this isn't even a question about who the better shooter is

[kamelion4291]

Jordan shooting over quadruple teams hurts your argument, not helps it. LeBron is smart and doesn't take those terrible shots like Kobe routinely does. Plus, who the hell was quadruple teaming Jordan when he was taking a jumper? LeBron has a higher career 3fg% than Jordan did.

These Jordan homers are insane. It's like they think that everything Jordan did he was better than anybody else in history at.

Quadruple team is hyperbole for facing way more defensive attention and pressure. Perhaps I should have said quintuple team. Obviouly the triangle minimized quintiple teams but learn to read in between the lines

Lebron is a higher 3P%? .336 vs .327 And on shots he's largely open and being dared to shoot. I'm sure if we looked at 2P jumpers this isn't even a question about who the better shooter is

33.6% is higher than 32.7% last I checked, and Jordan was dared to shoot just as LeBron is. Feel free to look up the 2 point jumpers though, because you won't find it.

[acrossthecourt]

Jordan shooting over quadruple teams hurts your argument, not helps it. LeBron is smart and doesn't take those terrible shots like Kobe routinely does. Plus, who the hell was quadruple teaming Jordan when he was taking a jumper? LeBron has a higher career 3fg% than Jordan did.

These Jordan homers are insane. It's like they think that everything Jordan did he was better than anybody else in history at.

Quadruple team is hyperbole for facing way more defensive attention and pressure. Perhaps I should have said quintuple team. Obviouly the triangle minimized quintiple teams but learn to read in between the lines

Lebron is a higher 3P%? .336 vs .327 And on shots he's largely open and being dared to shoot. I'm sure if we looked at 2P jumpers this isn't even a question about who the better shooter is

33.6% is higher than 32.7% last I checked, and Jordan was dared to shoot just as LeBron is. Feel free to look up the 2 point jumpers though, because you won't find it.

Jordan never had a season like LeBron is having from the three-point line this year. Jordan had a couple almost decent seasons due to the shortened line, but it was still far exceeded by LeBron.

People need to also stop using FG% or eFG%. Why are we ignoring free throws? It's an outdated stat.

[The Evidence]

33.6% is higher than 32.7% last I checked, and Jordan was dared to shoot just as LeBron is. Feel free to look up the 2 point jumpers though, because you won't find it.

How was Jordan dared to shoot 2P jumpers? The entire second half of his career was built on the 2P jumper vs single/double teams, and occasional triples. He rarely took three's so there's no way you can argue against Jordan having a lower jumper percentage.

We can defiently check Lebron's numbers on overall jumpshots, and its only cracked 40% twice. Two years ago at 40% and this year at 43%

[acrossthecourt]

Jordan in 97 and 98 was taking nearly 1000 midrange jump shots a year (the most of anyone for which this stat has been tracked) at very good percentages. I think one season he was at 50 percent.

[kamelion4291]

33.6% is higher than 32.7% last I checked, and Jordan was dared to shoot just as LeBron is. Feel free to look up the 2 point jumpers though, because you won't find it.

How was Jordan dared to shoot 2P jumpers? The entire second half of his career was built on the 2P jumper vs single/double teams, and occasional triples. He rarely took three's so there's no way you can argue against Jordan having a lower jumper percentage.

We can defiently check Lebron's numbers on overall jumpshots, and its only cracked 40% twice. Two years ago at 40% and this year at 43%

Yes, and you use a laughing emoticon because 43% is bad on long 2 point jumpshots now? Can we say hater? The entire second half of Jordan's career he lived by the jumpshot because he didn't have the athleticism he did earlier in his career, when teams ABSOLUTELY dared him to shoot jumpers. Do you not remember the playoff "shrug" game? It was because teams dared him to beat him with the jumper and he did... eventually. If you think teams didn't defend Jordan by stopping him from getting to the basket first, just like LeBron, well then... you've never really seen Jordan play. Right now LeBron is having a better shooting season than Jordan ever did. That is a stone cold fact that you can not argue.

Bonus fun fact: Kobe Bryant's career 3 point fg%: 33.6%. LeBron's career 3 point fg%: 33.6%. Jordan's career 3 point fg%: 32.7%.

[diablerouge]

this is not that outlandish coming from svg. he doesn't buy into the jordan mythology and has said numerous times that he considers kareem and oscar to be the two best players in the history of the game.

i don't agree with him on lebron already being better than lebron but you can certainly make a rational argument as to why kareem would be the best ever consider his stellar resume in hs, pros and colleges and records he holds.

[An Unbiased Fan]

Bonus fun fact: Kobe Bryant's career 3 point fg%: 33.6%. LeBron's career 3 point fg%: 33.6%. Jordan's career 3 point fg%: 32.7%.

Actually, MJ is only around 28% at the regular 3pt-line. His 3pt% is over-inflated because he had a few years with a shortened line.

[SuperflyKnick]

I agree. get over it people. MJ is ridicoulsly overrated that people have developed this perception that no one can challenge him for GOAT.

Umm really, guy won 6 rings, cud have been 2 more if he didnt retire or 2 more of he decided to play more... i mean no1 was going to beat him and i mean no1....Do u realize the guy cud have won 10 straight rings if he wanted to.... Not to mention he was a way better defender and leader... ohhh did i mention crunch time it was over no matter what... Oh his jump shot was automatic, oh and also he played in a era where defenses dominated and physical play was welcomed.... I mean some people make me just shake my head Lebron = Jordan ummm not even close....

[The Evidence]

Yes, and you use a laughing emoticon because 43% is bad on long 2 point jumpshots now? Can we say hater? The entire second half of Jordan's career he lived by the jumpshot because he didn't have the athleticism he did earlier in his career, when teams ABSOLUTELY dared him to shoot jumpers. Do you not remember the playoff "shrug" game? It was because teams dared him to beat him with the jumper and he did... eventually. If you think teams didn't defend Jordan by stopping him from getting to the basket first, just like LeBron, well then... you've never really seen Jordan play. Right now LeBron is having a better shooting season than Jordan ever did. That is a stone cold fact that you can not argue.

Bonus fun fact: Kobe Bryant's career 3 point fg%: 33.6%. LeBron's career 3 point fg%: 33.6%. Jordan's career 3 point fg%: 32.7%.

Jordan was automatic from two, and for many many years. Lebron has one good jumpshooting year and now he's a better shooter? Give me a break.

Most teams do not worry about Lebron's shot AT ALL, and the gameplan on him is to let him shoot. Jordan faced way tougher defenses and received way more attention in every facet of his game. The more compelling jump-shooting debate is still Jordan vs Kobe.

[EscapoTHB]

I agree. get over it people. MJ is ridicoulsly overrated that people have developed this perception that no one can challenge him for GOAT.

Umm really, guy won 6 rings, cud have been 2 more if he didnt retire or 2 more of he decided to play more... i mean no1 was going to beat him and i mean no1....Do u realize the guy cud have won 10 straight rings if he wanted to.... Not to mention he was a way better defender and leader... ohhh did i mention crunch time it was over no matter what... Oh his jump shot was automatic, oh and also he played in a era where defenses dominated and physical play was welcomed.... I mean some people make me just shake my head Lebron = Jordan ummm not even close....

Bulls weren't winning no damn 10 rings in a row. I'm sorry, but that is the most ignorant thing I've ever read on here. The Bulls were absolutely pushed by Barkley's Suns--and during that two years span they lost Cartwright, Grant, and Paxson.

You honestly believe a frontline of Will Perdue and Toni Kukoc is going to 1) come out of the East where the Orlando Magic had Shaq, Horace; the Knicks had Ewing and Oakley and then 2) beat the Rockets who beat the Barkley Suns team that the Bulls ALREADY had trouble with?

Luc Longley guarding Hakeem would be the biggest joke I've ever seen in the NBA finals history. The Bulls always had trouble beating Hakeem because Hakeem was quick enough to cut off their penetration--and he was the premier shotblocker in the game which made Pippen and Jordan both a little less efficient than they normally were. Couple that with how Vernon Maxwell always got up to play Jordan--and always got under his skin like few players did. Kenny the Jet has said before that Maxwell was one of the few players that legit scared Mike--because he was so completely crazy.

I mean the year Jordan came back from baseball they got knocked out by Shaq's Magic in the second round.

There's not very much evidence to suggest that Mike was going to deny Hakeem his rings. People are so up Jordan's backside that they forget how insanely good Hakeem was those two years Jordan was gone. It is a shame we never got to see what would have happened--but Hakeem's all-time greatness basically hinges on how otherworldly he was those two years.

It's like Dirk and the Mavs and how they were able to beat Lebron and Wade in the finals. An all-time great big at his peak with terrific role players is something that the Bulls never ran up against in the eastern conference. Ewing was the best center they faced. And they really never faced Shaq in his prime. I think if they had had to play Hakeem's Rockets teams instead of the Sonics(one of my favorite teams for sure), or the Jazz--it would have been a different story. The Bulls got away with playing scrubs at center during their dynasty because 1. Bill Cartwright always had a mental edge on Patrick and 2. All of the truly great centers in their prime in Jordan's era were in the Western conference getting taken out by teams with all-time great power fowards.

I get loving Jordan--but so many of Jordan's fans, disrespect the history of the game---and disrespect Jordan's greatness because they don't understand it's context. You're so eager to say outlandish things about Jordan--that you completely miss out on the reality of the situation. It's like how people talked about Babe Ruth in baseball for the longest time. You're not talking about a player--you're talking about a myth.