Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov

GrandAdmiralDan · Post #121 » by **GrandAdmiralDan** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:10 am

This also illustrates just how unnecessary it was to "lock up" Delfino and Neal when we did to "bolster" our wing rotation. The Bucks REALLY need to learn that unless you are a championship contender, you can worry about filling out your rotation later in the offseason.

Let's say we didn't sign Delfino or Neal. Everything else this offseason still happens and we trade Kratsov and Udoh for Caron Butler. Mayo and Butler start at SG & SF. Middleton backs up both of them, getting minutes at both spots. Ridnour is likely to get some of the backup SG minutes alongside Knight at PG anyway. And we still have Wolters and Ish Smith to provide emergency and practice minutes at PG, not to mention Wolters can do so at SG also. In this scenario, Giannis could have been used occasionally for a handful of minutes in blowouts OR to get 10-12 mpg in the rotation if one of the 3 main wings were hurt a month or more into the season when Giannis had become slightly more acclimated to the lifestyle in this country and the NBA. Now? Middleton is bumped down to that role, and Giannis will not only never see the court during a game, he won't even likely get to play during practice!!!!!!

And we could've entered this season about $12.5 mil under the cap instead of now theoretically only $6 mil under the cap and can play a major role in facilitating trades and extracting one or more 1st round pick or young talent this season.

mcfromage · Post #122 » by **mcfromage** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:11 am

Could signal that Delfino is hurt worse then we thought. So long as Caron takes his minutes and not Giannis/Middleton's I'm fine with it. Thankfully no picks...

ReddWing · Post #123 » by **ReddWing** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:11 am

So we gave up nothing for Caron? Whatever's sounds good to me.

Steve210 · Post #124 » by **Steve210** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:11 am

DukeH wrote:There's really nothing to complain about with this trade, it's actually very good trade.

Well Jim, for those of us that wanted to see Middleton and Giannis play, both of those guys will be lucky to get on the floor now.

Down To Buck · Post #125 » by **Down To Buck** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:12 am

I can live with this. Kravtsov gargles man sacks and while Ish might be okay, there is no room for him on the roster.

Actually there's not really any room for Butler either. What are we trying to accomplish here? Oh well. At least we don't give up a pick.

Turd Ferguson · Post #126 » by **Turd Ferguson** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:12 am

DukeH wrote:There's really nothing to complain about with this trade, it's actually very good trade.

Saw that you edited your post to include the link - just how desperate is this franchise to spin this trade in a way that leaves them in a positive light?

DukeH · Post #127 » by **DukeH** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:14 am

Turd Ferguson wrote:
DukeH wrote:There's really nothing to complain about with this trade, it's actually very good trade.

Saw that you edited your post to include the link - just how desperate is this franchise to spin this trade in a way that leaves them in a positive light?

I actually just read it after seeing a Bucks blogger tweet it, seriously though, why's your vagina so hurt over this trade?

Post #128 » by **paulpressey25** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:17 am

I got home from work late. Catching up on some Pawn Stars episodes. Figured I'd check the board one last time for two seconds and then go to bed.....Nothing to read in the dog days save for Bern's big Anthony Pettis thread.

Then I see this mess. Ugh.

This will steal minutes from the young guys and add five wins assuming Butler can still walk. And it takes some cap room away we might have used In a more meaningful deal at the deadline.

Yeah, Kohl is still in charge here. Meh. This sucks.

GrandAdmiralDan · Post #129 » by **GrandAdmiralDan** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:19 am

DukeH wrote:There's really nothing to complain about with this trade, it's actually very good trade.

Wrong. We gave up $5.548537 mil in cap space out of our roughly $8 mil in cap space that could have been used this season to facilitate trades and extract at least one 1st round pick and/or a young asset.

Combined with the rest of our roster circumstances, particularly the Delfino & Neal signings, this is a MORONIC trade, as most of Hammond's trades have been, unfortunately.

MrPerfect1 · Post #130 » by **MrPerfect1** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:24 am

paulpressey25 wrote:
This will steal minutes from the young guys and add five wins assuming Butler can still walk. And it takes some cap room away we might have used In a more meaningful deal at the deadline.

Yeah, Kohl is still in charge here. Meh. This sucks.

The trade is kind of dumb because it steals minutes from young players. However, Butler is pretty sucky. He had PER's of 11.7 ans 12.4 the last 2 years, definitely not an impact player. Also here is the number of games played the last 5 years for him:

-47
-27
-29
-63
-78

If he was underwhelming when surrounded by a lot of offensive Talent in DAL and LAC, imagine how effective he will be in MIL without teams having a Dirk/Paul/Griffin to focus on instead. He also is far from durable and will be 34 during the season, he might help the stealth tank.

LittleRooster · Post #131 » by **LittleRooster** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:24 am

[quote="paulpressey25"]I got home from work late.[/quote]

Whoa, whoa, whoa...you work? I thought this was your full time job

Arts closed early? :lol:

DukeH · Post #132 » by **DukeH** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:24 am

GrandAdmiralDan wrote:
DukeH wrote:There's really nothing to complain about with this trade, it's actually very good trade.

Wrong. We gave up $5.548537 mil in cap space out of our roughly $8 mil in cap space that could have been used this season to facilitate trades and extract at least one 1st round pick and/or a young asset.

Combined with the rest of our roster circumstances, particularly the Delfino & Neal signings, this is a MORONIC trade, as most of Hammond's trades have been, unfortunately.

Butler's worth something at the deadline to a contender and so is Udoh if the Bucks drop out of the playoff race. And lols at thinking $8M cap space would get us a 1st round pick.

GrandAdmiralDan · Post #133 » by **GrandAdmiralDan** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:25 am

I want everyone to realize that of all the cap space we were able to have this offseason, we used $12.048537 mil on Carlos Delfino, Gary Neal, and Caron Butler.

$17.248537 mil on Delfino, Neal, Butler, and Zaza.

We used $30 mil on Delfino, Neal, Butler, Zaza, Ridnour, and Mayo. I can't recall a less effective use of $30 mil of cap space in the history of the NBA. And I have paid VERY close attention to how teams use cap space since 1994...

MrPerfect1 · Post #134 » by **MrPerfect1** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:25 am

DukeH wrote: And lols at thinking $8M cap space would get us a 1st round pick.

You do know that 1st Round picks have been sold for $3 mil before right?

Garbs_7 · Post #135 » by **Garbs_7** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:25 am

It isn't really that surprising, Bucks have said from the start they want to rebuild while staying competitive. This completely follows that line of thinking and suits what their plan is. For whatever reason they don't want to become a Bobcats style laughing stock and completely bottom out so we just have to stop hoping for a complete gutting and rebuild...

mcfromage · Post #136 » by **mcfromage** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:27 am

Knight (32) / Ridnour (16)
Mayo (32) / Neal (16)
Butler (20) / Middleton (18) / Delfino (10)
Ersan (30) / Henson (18)
Sanders (35) / Pachulia (9) / Udoh (4)

There's my best guess at our 12 man rotation. Giannis only sees the court in garbage time, Delfino's health dependent. Henson needs more time but where does that come?

cwally10 · Post #137 » by **cwally10** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:28 am

[quote="DukeH"]There's really nothing to complain about with this trade, it's actually very good trade.

Some of you may have already read this article, but for those who haven't it's a great read on Butler's life:

The complaint is predicated on the fact that the fans were able to convince themselves the reason we "passed" on Bledsoe was due to taking Butler's salary. Granted, we didn't give up much, BUT don't you think we could have topped Dudley? If not, that is a sad indictment (frankly, one I don't believe) on the assets on our roster,

Duke, I replied to you in the SF thread as well. I support the Bucks, but we are setup to rebuild so quickly and we are messing it up! And yes, I realize we may not "tank" but the reason the fans want to play the young guys (even Giannis who may only be readily for "scrub time") is because we either lose in a fantastic draft year OR we compete for the playoffs because the young guys gave developed. That's what the fans want to get excited about!

DukeH · Post #138 » by **DukeH** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:29 am

MrPerfect1 wrote:
DukeH wrote: And lols at thinking $8M cap space would get us a 1st round pick.

You do know that 1st Round picks have been sold for $3 mil before right?

It happens every year, doesn't it? Especially in years where the draft is stacked. :roll:

Garbs_7 · Post #139 » by **Garbs_7** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:29 am

MrPerfect1 wrote:
DukeH wrote: And lols at thinking $8M cap space would get us a 1st round pick.

You do know that 1st Round picks have been sold for $3 mil before right?

It's pretty common for teams to look to dump players and their contracts with a 1st tied to it Duke.

MrPerfect1 · Post #140 » by **MrPerfect1** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:30 am

DukeH wrote:
MrPerfect1 wrote:
DukeH wrote: And lols at thinking $8M cap space would get us a 1st round pick.

You do know that 1st Round picks have been sold for $3 mil before right?

It happens every year, doesn't it? Especially in years where the draft is stacked.

Show me any projections indicating the draft is "stacked" for late in the 1st