Is Wall Top 5 PG?

[CobraCommander]

15 turnovers in 2 games against the Celtics. That is not the work of a top 5 pg. Overtime wouldn't have been needed with a top 5 pg.

His turnovers and weak scoring efficiency are major problems. Funny how people keep trying to ignore them.

Hello Tontoz,
Do you ever get tired of being so negative? Almost every post I see from you is complaining about Wall's turnovers or "long twos". I think I'm going to buy you an ugly Christmas sweater that says "ASK ME ABOUT LONG TWOS" on the back. And a vanity plate-- "LONG2S"

Please don't think that I'm picking on you, I just want you to be happy. To see you so frustrated and desperately negative breaks my heart. Have you considered laughing yoga?
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8uxxMXuhZ8[/youtube]

All the best.
Your boy,
AF

Hilarious- Btw- curry has a worse assist to turnover ratio than wall. Paul has the best assist to turnover ratio- Andre Miller In the top 5 of assist to turnover. With that said- curry still the best point in league and is in the MVP debate-

[Kanyewest]

Lowry is having a better individual season so far than Wall. But there is a lot of basketball left to play, and Lowry is not a better all around player than Wall. He's a much more efficient offensive player. A lot of that comes from him playing a lesser role than Wall on a team with a slightly better supporting cast top to bottom. Wall is a much better defensive player and passer than Lowry.

True, Wall does get more assists but Lowry has a significantly better assist to turnover ratio than Wall. For a point guard, Lowry's 1.8 turnovers per game is insanely low.

Lowry is also a pretty good rebounder and defender. If Wall is a better defender than Lowry, it isn't by much. Lowry last year lead the league in drawing offensive fouls at 85 and in 2nd was Derek Fisher who only drew 55.

I agree there is a lot of basketball to be played. I believe that Wall can perhaps take his game to another level especially in the postseason.

[mohammed10]

Wall's last 5 games...

18pts 13ast 2stls
17pts 15ast 4reb
9pts 12ast 8reb (Didn’t play the 4th)
17pts 14ast 8reb 3stls 3blks
26pts 17ast 7reb 3st

WOW

[tontoz]

15 turnovers in 2 games against the Celtics. That is not the work of a top 5 pg. Overtime wouldn't have been needed with a top 5 pg.

His turnovers and weak scoring efficiency are major problems. Funny how people keep trying to ignore them.

Moving the goalposts: Not a top five PG because the team went to overtime in a regular season game against the Celtics.

You want to talk only about his 15 TOs these two games? You're the one cherrypicking, ignoring the 31 assists that went along with those. GTFO with that crap.

Cherry pickinng? How do you think Boston erased a 23 point deficit? Was it magic? Or was it 9 second half turnovers from Wall that led to easy points on the other end?

31 assist and 15 turnovers is a 2 to 1 assist to turnover ratio. Not impressed.

And lets not forget that many of the top pgs are good/very good perimeter shooters. Wall is a bad, and frequent, shooter.

[tontoz]

Hello Tontoz,
Do you ever get tired of being so negative? Almost every post I see from you is complaining about Wall's turnovers or "long twos". I think I'm going to buy you an ugly Christmas sweater that says "ASK ME ABOUT LONG TWOS" on the back. And a vanity plate-- "LONG2S"


AF

If that is what you think then you may have a reading problem. Or maybe you just can't make a coherent argument so you resort to personal comments.

[Dat2U]

15 turnovers in 2 games against the Celtics. That is not the work of a top 5 pg. Overtime wouldn't have been needed with a top 5 pg.

His turnovers and weak scoring efficiency are major problems. Funny how people keep trying to ignore them.

Despite the high TOs and scoring efficiency (which I can't hold him fully responsible for if Wittman is continually encouraging those long 2s) Wall is ranked 13th in league in RPM & 10th in the league in VORP. His defense on the perimeter is the best by any guard, by a wide a margin.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

[tontoz]

15 turnovers in 2 games against the Celtics. That is not the work of a top 5 pg. Overtime wouldn't have been needed with a top 5 pg.

His turnovers and weak scoring efficiency are major problems. Funny how people keep trying to ignore them.

Despite the high TOs and scoring efficiency (which I can't hold him fully responsible for if Wittman is continually encouraging those long 2s) Wall is ranked 13th in league in RPM & 10th in the league in VORP. His defense on the perimeter is the best by any guard, by a wide a margin.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

Wall is doing several things well. I don't think anyone is disputing that. Last night i posted that he seems to be improving his shot selection in recent games.

But his turnover rate is trending worse. It is higher than the last two seasons.

[jangles86]

Yes his turnover rate is a touch higher then you'd like. And his shooting is still iffy at times (although quite clearly improving. He is still putting up 18ppg 10.5apg 5rpg 2.2spg and nearly a block a game aswell. He is the best perimeter defender is the game right now, and quite close to being the best floor general aswell. He is trending much higher in many areas than we expected and he is taking his team to a 14-6 record pretty much on his own back with several key players being injured. I expect his assists to go up even more when Webster gets back in the line up and Beal finds his shots.

[Dat2U]

15 turnovers in 2 games against the Celtics. That is not the work of a top 5 pg. Overtime wouldn't have been needed with a top 5 pg.

His turnovers and weak scoring efficiency are major problems. Funny how people keep trying to ignore them.

Despite the high TOs and scoring efficiency (which I can't hold him fully responsible for if Wittman is continually encouraging those long 2s) Wall is ranked 13th in league in RPM & 10th in the league in VORP. His defense on the perimeter is the best by any guard, by a wide a margin.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

Wall is doing several things well. I don't think anyone is disputing that. Last night i posted that he seems to be improving his shot selection in recent games.

But his turnover rate is trending worse. It is higher than the last two seasons.

Of course it would be after two early season games where he had a combined 15 TOs. I think everyone, possibly with the exception of you, thinks it's a blip or an outlier that he'll eventually get in check.

[Ruzious]

I think you have to reach real low to pick at John's performance last night. That was an amazing effort.

[Induveca]

His turnovers have been high. Think positively, they will go down. Kidd was extremely turnover prone at this post in his career as well. I think he had a few 15 TO games. He was also a much worse shooter than Wall.

I think Wall's ceiling is MUCH higher than Kidd's, and that's more than encouraging. Kidd carried the Nets to the finals in year 8 or 9 of his career with the same flaws.

Wall has impressed me a lot this season, many of those turnovers are just timing issues. Once the team gets in sync with his speed/court vision the turnovers will go down.

[hands11]

Wall's last 5 games...

18pts 13ast 2stls
17pts 15ast 4reb
9pts 12ast 8reb (Didn’t play the 4th)
17pts 14ast 8reb 3stls 3blks
26pts 17ast 7reb 3st

WOW

And that's the main thing. Lowry is as good as he is going to be and going to be 29 in March

Wall is still improving and just turned 24 last Sept.

RPM has them 4 and 5 at PG

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_ ... position/1

Lowry with the clearly better offense. Wall with the clearly better defense.

Lowry is now entering his... how well will he age stage. Wall is still just a pup entering his prime.

Lowry has done well for a late first rounder. But Wall career number are going to blow his away. Lowry didnt even become a starter until his 5th year.

[tontoz]

Of course it would be after two early season games where he had a combined 15 TOs. I think everyone, possibly with the exception of you, thinks it's a blip or an outlier that he'll eventually get in check.

Wall had 10 games with at least 4 turnovers before playing Boston. Turnovers have been a problem his whole career and there is no sign of improvement.

[Dat2U]

Of course it would be after two early season games where he had a combined 15 TOs. I think everyone, possibly with the exception of you, thinks it's a blip or an outlier that he'll eventually get in check.

Wall had 10 games with at least 4 turnovers before playing Boston. Turnovers have been a problem his whole career and there is no sign of improvement.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... areer.html

Yeah, wouldn't want him associated with any of the names on the above lists.

[TGW]

Of course it would be after two early season games where he had a combined 15 TOs. I think everyone, possibly with the exception of you, thinks it's a blip or an outlier that he'll eventually get in check.

Wall had 10 games with at least 4 turnovers before playing Boston. Turnovers have been a problem his whole career and there is no sign of improvement.

Although I'd like to him clean it up, it's really a non-issue at this point. He handles the ball 90% of the game. It comes with the territory.

I think if the coaching was better, we'd see a better John Wall.

[hands11]

Yes his turnover rate is a touch higher then you'd like. And his shooting is still iffy at times (although quite clearly improving. He is still putting up 18ppg 10.5apg 5rpg 2.2spg and nearly a block a game aswell. He is the best perimeter defender is the game right now, and quite close to being the best floor general aswell. He is trending much higher in many areas than we expected and he is taking his team to a 14-6 record pretty much on his own back with several key players being injured. I expect his assists to go up even more when Webster gets back in the line up and Beal finds his shots.

He is still maturing.

Like last night he tried that pretty quick pass ally op that wasn't there. I think that goes to a comment Randy made about trying to make plays that aren't there that a player has predetermined. Phil even commented on that in like. Now that said, they were up 18 pts or so when he did it, but as we saw, you can lose leads when you stop playing smart ball.

Give Boston credit. I think that team with Smart back can make the playoffs. They just need a little more seasoning. They are young. But they have lots of pieces you want. They have a primary all around SF in Green. Two PGs. One passing. One defense. Scoring SGs. A S4 in KO. And young big hybrid in Zeller. A beefy player with range in Sully. That's not a untallented team. And they played crappy energy defense.

The high turnovers is a function of several things. Wall dishing out 17 assists, scrappy energy D, Wall still trying to made some plays that aren't there, lose handles sometimes, and that were you get some of those turnovers.

Wall will keep improving. But right now, dude is averaging a double doubt a 10 ast 18 pts. That in range of 20 and 10 numbers and anyone posting 20 and 10 is clearly elite.

He is also only .4 assists from leading the league in Assist Per Game.

Wall hasn't peaked yet and he keeps getting better. For now, the easiest way for him to be more efficient would be to get back to his norm for FT shooting and to make sure he gets to the line at least 3-4 times a game

[tontoz]

Of course it would be after two early season games where he had a combined 15 TOs. I think everyone, possibly with the exception of you, thinks it's a blip or an outlier that he'll eventually get in check.

Wall had 10 games with at least 4 turnovers before playing Boston. Turnovers have been a problem his whole career and there is no sign of improvement.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... areer.html

Yeah, wouldn't want him associated with any of the names on the above lists.

Total turnovers? This is a joke, right? Did it ever occur to you that guys who play a lot of years have more total turnovers than guys who don't?

Stockton is 2nd in NBA history in total turnovers but his worst season he averaged 3.2. And he averaged over 13 assists that year.

I am comparing him to other pgs currently playing. Do you not see the problem here?

Among current pgs Wall is 24th in assist to turnover ratio.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/playe ... int-guards

[hands11]

Wall had 10 games with at least 4 turnovers before playing Boston. Turnovers have been a problem his whole career and there is no sign of improvement.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... areer.html

Yeah, wouldn't want him associated with any of the names on the above lists.

Total turnovers? This is a joke, right? Did it ever occur to you that guys who play a lot of years have more total turnovers than guys who don't?

Stockton is 2nd in NBA history in total turnovers but his worst season he averaged 3.2. And he averaged over 13 assists that year.

I am comparing him to other pgs currently playing. Do you not see the problem here?

Among current pgs Wall is 24th in assist to turnover ratio.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/playe ... int-guards

Now sort that by AST PER GAME and tell us what you see.

He ends up with a better AST to Turnover then Curry but with a much higher AST/48

So Curry is worse.

Oh, sort by AST/48.. Look at the PROFESSOR.. Oldest player in the league with 12.3 Ast/48 and AST/TO of 4.33 Looks like Wall has a good teacher. I think he will get better.

[GhostsOfGil]

Over the last 5 games Wall is averaging 5 topg on 14.2 apg. Thats a very respectable assist to turnover ratio of 2.85. If Wall continues to pass the ball this well, I think I can turn a blind eye to the other flaws of his game.

[nuposse04]

He has to get the TOs down but I think part of the problem is that he is running a flawed offense when the mid range 2s aren't falling. Whenever we run a 2 man game there is so little off the ball movement it seems I wonder how Wall racks up any assists.

That being said, Wall just needs to fix his TOs and he'll be a top 5 PG to me, right now he is around 6-7.

Also, knocking him for TOs last night given what he was playing through, seems kinda much.