"WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2

[Gomes3PC]

Ed Isaacson's write-up on Simmons.

There has been no more unique player in college basketball over the last few years, but it also makes Simmons’s weaknesses more glaring once you see what he is capable of...

Simmons didn’t seem to show very much that was new in his one college seasons, and the lack of effort was stunning at times. He has seemed to coast by on his size and ability to this point, but he will need to put in more work at the next level. Even when he seemed to carry the team on his back, which he had to do in the second half of games often this season, it just left you wondering what took him so long to take over. There is an immense amount of talent here, and there are still so many areas where he can, and will, improve, but it’s on Simmons now to make the most of it...

While the backlash in the past month or so about Simmons has been seriously overblown, the questions about his effort and weaknesses won’t go away over the next few months. The lack of ability to knock down open jumpers, as well as some deficiencies on defense will also need to be addressed sooner rather than later. Still, Simmons is a very unique player, and will still be seriously considered by anyone with the top pick. This may be a rare case where fit may come into play, rather than best player available, when deciding who to take at number one, as it can be tough to see where Simmons’ skill set may be best used by some teams who have a good chance at that top pick. The spacing at the NBA level may be a benefit to him, especially with his ability to create mismatches off the dribble, but it can also hurt him on the defensive end, where it’s unclear who he will be able to defend well right now. Even with all the questions, Simmons could be a future All-Star, maybe more, but he will need to work on his weak areas consistently to find improvement.

http://hoopshabit.com/2016/03/29/scouting-report-ben-simmons/

He just sounds like Aaron Gordon.

Uhhh, what? Aaron Gordon and Ben Simmons are not remotely similar players.

[Edug27]

I was always on the record how Jaylen Brown has a low NBA floor and that he needs a good coach like Thibs or Stevens, but I never expected to see that floor in multiple college games in a row because he's such an overwhelming athletic presence. That's frightening. I'm starting to think his downside is more problematic than I initially thought. Definitely slid from my top 4 to around #7.

I believe Jaylen Brown suffered an injury to his non-shooting hand the day before Cal's first round exit. But man was he horrid in that game. 4 points on 1-6 shooting, 7 TOs, 5 fouls, 2 rebounds and 0s across the rest of the board. I'll keep an open mind if he returns to school next season. But he didn't sound like a slam dunk prospect to begin with. I'm not taking him at #7.

The only part of Brown's game that is NBA ready is his body. Everything else is a complete ? mark.

Right. We also need to remember just how young these guys are and how much we expect from 19 year olds. I always compared Jaylen to Jimmy Butler. I think he'll develop into a similar player. Look at Jimmy's tourney games his freshman season. He struggled big time. Ideally players like Jaylen would return for a sophomore season and develop like Jimmy did, but hype=money and not many would turn that down. I just hope Jaylen gets drafted into a healthy environment that'll slowly allow him to develop... like Winslow and Stanley Johnson are. The world isn't being placed on their shoulders.

[Gomes3PC]

Difference was both Winslow and Johnson were further along than Brown, but generally agree with your premise.

[threrf23]

Right. We also need to remember just how young these guys are and how much we expect from 19 year olds. I always compared Jaylen to Jimmy Butler. I think he'll develop into a similar player. Look at Jimmy's tourney games his freshman season. He struggled big time. Ideally players like Jaylen would return for a sophomore season and develop like Jimmy did, but hype=money and not many would turn that down. I just hope Jaylen gets drafted into a healthy environment that'll slowly allow him to develop... like Winslow and Stanley Johnson are. The world isn't being placed on their shoulders.

Jimmy Butler didn't have a single turnover in two tourney games his freshman year. He probably played good defense too. He was also a really hard worker who was wholly unselfish.

I was watching Brown at the end of Cal's loss to Hawaii, and to a lesser extent I was watching him earlier in the game. He was horrid. I'm not sure his line - 4 points on 1-6 shooting, 7 TOs, 5 fouls, 2 rebounds and 0s across the rest of the board - even tells the full story.

[Edug27]

Right. We also need to remember just how young these guys are and how much we expect from 19 year olds. I always compared Jaylen to Jimmy Butler. I think he'll develop into a similar player. Look at Jimmy's tourney games his freshman season. He struggled big time. Ideally players like Jaylen would return for a sophomore season and develop like Jimmy did, but hype=money and not many would turn that down. I just hope Jaylen gets drafted into a healthy environment that'll slowly allow him to develop... like Winslow and Stanley Johnson are. The world isn't being placed on their shoulders.

Jimmy Butler didn't have a single turnover in two tourney games his freshman year. He probably played good defense too. He was also a really hard worker who was wholly unselfish.

I was watching Brown at the end of Cal's loss to Hawaii, and to a lesser extent I was watching him earlier in the game. He was horrid. I'm not sure his line - 4 points on 1-6 shooting, 7 TOs, 5 fouls, 2 rebounds and 0s across the rest of the board - even tells the full story.

If it makes you feel any better, Wiggins had 4 pts, shot 1-6, 4 TOs in his tourney loss to Stanford. Wasn't a pretty night from the number 1 overall pick who is avg'in 20+ in the NBA.

[greenroom31]

I'm drunk and experiencing extreme highs (closing an $8MM VC round for my company) and lows (my Dad's heart surgery) over the past week so bear with me (or don't and ignore this ****).

**** those who think they know the way and have all the answers and **** those who lack the balls to pick a path. **** those who follow and **** those who need to be led. **** those who hesitate, stutter, sputter and shut down under pressure. There is only one true path and it comes from within and you will find it or it will find you. Anything else is heresy and bull.

When you want to be the best in the goddamn world at something there is no half-way, there is no almost, there is no in-between. There is only go with all you have or GTFO the way. And while I love Marcus Smart's spirit and Avery Bradley's development and Jordan Mickey's fanboi lust potential, there is only one thing that's real in this **** world and that's results.

Right now the results say we're in the mix. To compete for 2nd place in the east. And whoever wins the East will lose to the **** West. So I will enjoy the **** ride that is the playoffs, but I won't lose sight of the prize, which is a championship. Trade, murder, kill, pillage, destroy whatever is **** necessary to get to that next level where we are not merely interesting but rather intimidating. When we show up in a city they should hide the women, lock the damn doors and pray to keep it close. We are THE Celtics. The most legendary franchise in basketball. Don't **** forget it.

So while we stroll into Golden State tonight to play the Warriors and their delusional GM who thinks he **** reinvented the goddamn game by getting lucky with Klay and Steph, don't **** forget for a second who we are as Celtics fans and what we understand more than any other fan base will ever understand, current history nothwithstanding.

Anyway clearly I'm posting this in the wrong thread. My bad. All I'm saying is the path you pave and the Celtics pave is their own. Don't look to the past for answers or rely on someone else to chart the course. Irrespective of the manner in how we proceed though, we have no choice but to dominate, and soon. Be it by draft, or by trade, or development, we will be back at the top again soon. Regaining our position as league champions. Something we've done more than any other team in the history of the NBA. It is our birthright, our claim, and our destiny, and **** all those who try to stand in our path.

As MANG might say..... ah **** you know the rest.

[truth18]

I'm drunk and experiencing extreme highs (closing an $8MM VC round for my company) and lows (my Dad's heart surgery) over the past week so bear with me (or don't and ignore this ****).

**** those who think they know the way and have all the answers and **** those who lack the balls to pick a path. **** those who follow and **** those who need to be led. **** those who hesitate, stutter, sputter and shut down under pressure. There is only one true path and it comes from within and you will find it or it will find you. Anything else is heresy and bull.

When you want to be the best in the goddamn world at something there is no half-way, there is no almost, there is no in-between. There is only go with all you have or GTFO the way. And while I love Marcus Smart's spirit and Avery Bradley's development and Jordan Mickey's fanboi lust potential, there is only one thing that's real in this **** world and that's results.

Right now the results say we're in the mix. To compete for 2nd place in the east. And whoever wins the East will lose to the **** West. So I will enjoy the **** ride that is the playoffs, but I won't lose sight of the prize, which is a championship. Trade, murder, kill, pillage, destroy whatever is **** necessary to get to that next level where we are not merely interesting but rather intimidating. When we show up in a city they should hide the women, lock the damn doors and pray to keep it close. We are THE Celtics. The most legendary franchise in basketball. Don't **** forget it.

So while we stroll into Golden State tonight to play the Warriors and their delusional GM who thinks he **** reinvented the goddamn game by getting lucky with Klay and Steph, don't **** forget for a second who we are as Celtics fans and what we understand more than any other fan base will ever understand, current history nothwithstanding.

Anyway clearly I'm posting this in the wrong thread. My bad. All I'm saying is the path you pave and the Celtics pave is their own. Don't look to the past for answers or rely on someone else to chart the course. Irrespective of the manner in how we proceed though, we have no choice but to dominate, and soon. Be it by draft, or by trade, or development, we will be back at the to again soon. Regaining our position as league champions. Something we've done more than any other team in the history of the NBA. It is our birthright, our claim, and our density, and **** all those who try to stand in our path.

As MANG might say..... ah **** you know the rest.

CS UP. PREACH SUN. LIVE GREEN OR DIE.

Spoiler:

also drunk

[Wes-J]

I believe Jaylen Brown suffered an injury to his non-shooting hand the day before Cal's first round exit. But man was he horrid in that game. 4 points on 1-6 shooting, 7 TOs, 5 fouls, 2 rebounds and 0s across the rest of the board. I'll keep an open mind if he returns to school next season. But he didn't sound like a slam dunk prospect to begin with. I'm not taking him at #7.

The only part of Brown's game that is NBA ready is his body. Everything else is a complete ? mark.

Right. We also need to remember just how young these guys are and how much we expect from 19 year olds. I always compared Jaylen to Jimmy Butler. I think he'll develop into a similar player. Look at Jimmy's tourney games his freshman season. He struggled big time. Ideally players like Jaylen would return for a sophomore season and develop like Jimmy did, but hype=money and not many would turn that down. I just hope Jaylen gets drafted into a healthy environment that'll slowly allow him to develop... like Winslow and Stanley Johnson are. The world isn't being placed on their shoulders.

Exactly. There's a reason why all the kids are called prospects. Even the best have their flaws. Many just expect way too much, so soon.

[No-Man]

Difference was both Winslow and Johnson were further along than Brown, but generally agree with your premise.

Brown is a bit like Johnson, playing wise, but less refined obviously, worse as a shooter and in 1on1 but with Winslow's athleticism, clearly better athlete than Stan.

[TheOGJabroni]

Question about the Mavs pick. I believe it is top 7 protected, so does that mean if they finish say 14th and in the lottery, is it our pick at that point? Or does the lottery need to play out and if it lands in the top 7 it is not ours?

[ConstableGeneva]

Question about the Mavs pick. I believe it is top 7 protected, so does that mean if they finish say 14th and in the lottery, is it our pick at that point? Or does the lottery need to play out and if it lands in the top 7 it is not ours?

We wait for the results of the lottery. If the Mavs somehow jump into the top 3, they keep their pick.

[165bows]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/steveshea33/status/715983237710000128[/tweet]

Analytical models of draft rankings rolling in. Worth noting that Shea had all three Boston picks in his top-15ish in his pre-draft ranking in 2015.

Not sure if that is coincidence or if they are in fact valuing things in an overlapping fashion.

[Crossy2008]

I didn't see much of Ellenson, but what I did see was not very good. Is anyone high on this guy? Would anyone on here consider taking him with a top six pick?

[Gant]

I didn't see much of Ellenson, but what I did see was not very good. Is anyone high on this guy? Would anyone on here consider taking him with a top six pick?

Chad Ford has him 5th now, much higher than anyone else I've seen.

http://www.aseaofblue.com/2016/4/1/11346868/nba-mock-draft-2016-chad-ford-5-0-has-new-names-in-lottery

[Crossy2008]

Just looked at Ford's mock from last year and he got two picks right in the top ten. Tough year for him.

Looks like Ellenson has a good mid range game, good passing skills, decent rebounding.

Lacks athleticism, which is a pretty big factor for me. He had a clear breakaway in one video I watched and he put in a layup. For a guard that is cool, but for a big that is not cool. Dunk the ball big man. It wasn't like he casually put in the layup either, he just didn't get above the rim.

I am not a fan of him in the top ten of this draft. I would have him going mid to late first because I think his rebounding will not be as effective at the next level without some athleticism.

[165bows]

Anunoby with a 7'6" wingspan?

Uh, not to be wildly hasty but let's draft this guy.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2016/3/23/11287870/og-anunoby-indiana-basketball-ncaa-tournament-2016-nba-draft

[Crossy2008]

Anunoby with a 7'6" wingspan?

Uh, not to be wildly hasty but let's draft this guy.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2016/3/23/11287870/og-anunoby-indiana-basketball-ncaa-tournament-2016-nba-draft

If only we had several draft picks.

I wonder where he will be projected to go. Would be nice if he made it to our pick or the second round.

[No-Man]

I doubt he declares but if he does, top10 pick for me 100%, and with a chance to go top5.

I wont touch Ellenson in the lotto I think, the issue with him is obvious, he cant stay in front of NBA modern tweeners or PFs, and he is not a rim protector.
Even if his offensive game pans out perfectly you are lowering your team chances and versatility by playing him.
I think you have to play him at C and live with that, with a strong all around D, and it is your best chance, I will compare him to Vin Baker/Memo Okur if we are talking about best case.

[Crossy2008]

This draft has taken significant turns this year. It started as Simmons and Skal, then Simmons or bust. Now it is Simmons and Ingram with both making a case for top pick. Then you throw in Bender, Dunn, Hield and it is starting to look pretty good. Brown and Murray are mixed into the top seven. Guys like Poetl and Rabb have fallen off a bit and now look to be late lotto picks. Then we have Luwawu and Anunoby looking like they could be solid pickups. Skal is going to be a big potential guy.

Then you have solid sophomores like Sabonis, Ulis, and Valentine.

The key to this draft class may be the international talent. I some guys step up and climb like Porzi and Hezonga did last year then that could deepen the draft a little more.

Looks like there will be some very solid NBA players drafted late in the first IMO

[Crossy2008]

There is a chance that the Celtics could end up drafting Simmon(Brk), Labissiere(Bos), and Sabonis(Dal). While potentially getting home court advantage in the playoffs. Go tell that to the board a eight months ago.