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PG: Grant Looks Like Bull in PnR

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Re: PG: Grant Looks Like Bull in PnR 

Post#121 » by GONYK » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:34 pm

Shadylove wrote:This is my Opinion Phil did not want to be wrong about Calederon, Fish and Rambis never saw Phil rely on rookies to run the show he always relied on vets so they did the same.Even with KP Rambis gave him quick hooks, Melo said this way back in October 2015 that Grant was killing it i training


Then he proceeded to sh*t all over the bed in actual games. Training camp doesn't mean anything once the season starts.

You're talking as if Grant never played. He averaged 21 MPG for the first 20 games of the season.
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Re: PG: Grant Looks Like Bull in PnR 

Post#122 » by Adelheid » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:40 pm

moocow007 wrote:
Shadylove wrote:This is my Opinion Phil did not want to be wrong about Calederon, Fish and Rambis never saw Phil rely on rookies to run the show he always relied on vets so they did the same.Even with KP Rambis gave him quick hooks, Melo said this way back in October 2015 that Grant was killing it i training


If that was the reason then Fisher deserved to be fired and Rambis should be fired.


Did Phil sacrifice this season just so he wouldn't be wrong for siding with Jose? That just sounds so horrible.
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Re: PG: Grant Looks Like Bull in PnR 

Post#123 » by god shammgod » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:58 pm

they were letting grant play with the ball in his hands a lot yesterday. there was no triangle at the end of that game. that would have probably worked at any time during the season. they force him back into having to play without the ball and he'll look bad again.
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Re: PG: Grant Looks Like Bull in PnR 

Post#124 » by Shadylove » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:05 pm

GONYK wrote:
Shadylove wrote:This is my Opinion Phil did not want to be wrong about Calederon, Fish and Rambis never saw Phil rely on rookies to run the show he always relied on vets so they did the same.Even with KP Rambis gave him quick hooks, Melo said this way back in October 2015 that Grant was killing it i training


Then he proceeded to sh*t all over the bed in actual games. Training camp doesn't mean anything once the season starts.

You're talking as if Grant never played. He averaged 21 MPG for the first 20 games of the season.


Yeah he played the games that he was allowed to play like the Boston game he did well.
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Re: PG: Grant Looks Like Bull in PnR 

Post#125 » by Shadylove » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:07 pm

god shammgod wrote:they were letting grant play with the ball in his hands a lot yesterday. there was no triangle at the end of that game. that would have probably worked at any time during the season. they force him back into having to play without the ball and he'll look bad again.


This I agree you have to let him play his game and work the triangle in gradually. The pick and roll with KP at summer league and with Rolo in real games is a thing of beauty
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Re: PG: Grant Looks Like Bull in PnR 

Post#126 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:10 pm

GONYK wrote:Guys, I've been pretty optimistic about Grant on the whole and always thought he would turn the corner. I'm glad he's doing well now.

That doesn't mean he really deserved to be starting or anything early on this season. He was absolutely terrible to start the year. He had no jumper, couldn't finish, took forever to make decisions, and was getting bumped off his drive lanes constantly. He didn't really deserve to be out there.

Him playing well now is a testament to his work ethic, but it isn't evidence of how he would have played all season. Especially since this is all coming in April, aka "The Shved Zone".

I'm excited for what he's showing though, and I can't wait to see him come in next year with some experience under his belt and a further improved jumper.


Yeah, he may only turn out to be a back-up caliber at best and he really did struggle at times. Seeing what he can do and trying to develop him was probably still our best option to both win this season and in the future.
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Re: PG: Grant Looks Like Bull in PnR 

Post#127 » by Shadylove » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:13 pm

Are We Ther Yet wrote:New York’s defense has surrendered just over 100 points per 100 possessions with Grant and Galloway on the court, according to NBA.com; a metric that’d rank third-best in the league. By contrast, the Knicks allowed more than 108 points per 100 plays when Calderon and Afflalo played together, a number that’d rank the club’s defense second-worst in the entire NBA. (Despite these numbers, Afflalo and Calderon inexplicably shared the court almost 49% of the time this season, whereas Grant and Galloway only played together about 29% of the time.)

Grant should have been playing for MONTHS. Maybe not starting when we were 22-22. But this kid should have seen much more PT.

HORRIBLE season of coaching. Squandered a playoff run in full tank mode fashion with no pick. Just a surreal season.

Batum Batum Batum Batum Batum. That's all I want this summer. Afflalo opts out and we sign Batum. D Will stays. Thibs or Walton and call it a day. Phil redeemed 100%.


I agree what if we dont get Batum whats the plan b?
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Re: PG: Grant Looks Like Bull in PnR 

Post#128 » by moocow007 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:14 pm

Adelheid wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
Shadylove wrote:This is my Opinion Phil did not want to be wrong about Calederon, Fish and Rambis never saw Phil rely on rookies to run the show he always relied on vets so they did the same.Even with KP Rambis gave him quick hooks, Melo said this way back in October 2015 that Grant was killing it i training


If that was the reason then Fisher deserved to be fired and Rambis should be fired.


Did Phil sacrifice this season just so he wouldn't be wrong for siding with Jose? That just sounds so horrible.


I have no idea to be honest what is driving Phil Jackson. But like GONYK said, Grant was struggling early in the season so I think it was at least part Grant's play that kept him from getting more time. To me it's a sign that the Knicks aren't thinking rebuild. They are trying to win still. If they were willing to rebuild they'd have played the younger players, let them learn, let them make mistakes and play through it (like rebuilding teams do). I know Jackson hasn't come out and said either or (which leads to folks guessing) but IMO the signs are pretty clear. It's really why, while I say the best option might be a rebuild, I've been really focused on talking about what they can do to win now.
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Re: PG: Grant Looks Like Bull in PnR 

Post#129 » by K_ick_God » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:16 pm

Triple C wrote:[Tweet]https://twitter.com/lazenby/status/719518644968034304[/Tweet]
[Tweet]https://twitter.com/lazenby/status/719521735457009664[/Tweet]
[Tweet]https://twitter.com/lazenby/status/719520631977549824[/Tweet]


Thibs will be gone next summer probably.
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Re: PG: Grant Looks Like Bull in PnR 

Post#130 » by GONYK » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:18 pm

Shadylove wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Shadylove wrote:This is my Opinion Phil did not want to be wrong about Calederon, Fish and Rambis never saw Phil rely on rookies to run the show he always relied on vets so they did the same.Even with KP Rambis gave him quick hooks, Melo said this way back in October 2015 that Grant was killing it i training


Then he proceeded to sh*t all over the bed in actual games. Training camp doesn't mean anything once the season starts.

You're talking as if Grant never played. He averaged 21 MPG for the first 20 games of the season.


Yeah he played the games that he was allowed to play like the Boston game he did well.


What does that mean?

Are you denying that he greatly struggled in the minutes he got to start the season?
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Re: PG: Grant Looks Like Bull in PnR 

Post#131 » by Shadylove » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:19 pm

After the 1st part of the season anyone that knows basketball knows that we needed
1. PG who can penetrate(we had one sitting on the bench) DNP SOMETIMES or 7 mins here and there
2. Guards that can defend(Even a dleague) Grant and Gallo 3rd best defence guards yet you play Sasha and Calderon cause of the triangle

So you see playing the Triangle at all cost caused as the playoffs my humble opinion
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Re: PG: Grant Looks Like Bull in PnR 

Post#132 » by god shammgod » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:20 pm

the knicks do an awful lot of blaming fisher. pretty sure phil was there for both training camps. he should have perhaps done something if he thought it was going badly. especially the 2nd time.
i also remember a lot of the players getting together this year before training camp. they put in extra time. so stop the nonsense.
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Re: PG: Grant Looks Like Bull in PnR 

Post#133 » by Americafkya » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:20 pm

Grant is definitely better at playing off the ball now than he was in the beginning of the season, but he still has some major shortcomings, as is to be expected with a rookie pg. His major handicap in the beginning of the season when he did play was that he couldn't shoot and he turned the ball over.

He definitely still does take bad shots, but he's a young player. Now that his shooting and confidence have improved, he'll start getting more burn. Now if only the dinosaurs in charge would realize this team is better running the pnr, having a free flowing offense, and letting a quick guard create for our 3 best scorers, than maybe things would be better.

The triangle is fine in some spots, and both Melo and Lopez should be posted up when they have a mismatch. Both are reliable post scorers. But we can't base our offense around that. It just doesn't work. It hasn't worked for us this season, nor has it for any other team.

KP and Melo will be much better suited to play in a flowing offense where they can catch and shoot more, or catch, fake, and drive, not one where they are posted up and asked to dance around their defender each time. That is predictable, slow and inefficient basketball.

I hope next season we get a reliable SG like Bazemore, Fournier, or Derozan(preferably Fournier since he shoots 40% from deep, won't make a max, and still has room to grow), and an at least capable point guard that can break down the defense. Imagine how much better this team would be if we upgraded:

Vujacic--> Fournier
Calderon-->Rondo

and our bench was Grant/Gallo/Dwill/Pachulia

That's a really solid 9 man rotation:

Melo, KP, Lopez, Fournier, Rondo, Grant, Gallo, D will, Pachulia

3rd best team in the East if both KP and Grant make jumps.

IDK if that's even possible salary-cap wise, but whatever. Let me dream.
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Re: PG: Grant Looks Like Bull in PnR 

Post#134 » by god shammgod » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:21 pm

KnicksGod wrote:
Triple C wrote:[Tweet]https://twitter.com/lazenby/status/719518644968034304[/Tweet]
[Tweet]https://twitter.com/lazenby/status/719521735457009664[/Tweet]
[Tweet]https://twitter.com/lazenby/status/719520631977549824[/Tweet]


Thibs will be gone next summer probably.


the goal should be what's best for the knicks. not what's needed for phil to survive.
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Re: PG: Grant Looks Like Bull in PnR 

Post#135 » by Shadylove » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:21 pm

GONYK wrote:
Shadylove wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Then he proceeded to sh*t all over the bed in actual games. Training camp doesn't mean anything once the season starts.

You're talking as if Grant never played. He averaged 21 MPG for the first 20 games of the season.


Yeah he played the games that he was allowed to play like the Boston game he did well.


What does that mean?

Are you denying that he greatly struggled in the minutes he got to start the season?


He struggled cause the triangle was forced down his throat. Do you think GS will have won 72 games if kerr forced them to run the TRIANGLE? :D

Wall cp3 traditional pgs will also struggle if the Triangle was forced down their throats :D its just my opinion
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Re: PG: Grant Looks Like Bull in PnR 

Post#136 » by moocow007 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:21 pm

Shadylove wrote:After the 1st part of the season anyone that knows basketball knows that we needed
1. PG who can penetrate(we had one sitting on the bench) DNP SOMETIMES or 7 mins here and there
2. Guards that can defend(Even a dleague) Grant and Gallo 3rd best defence guards yet you play Sasha and Calderon cause of the triangle

So you see playing the Triangle at all cost caused as the playoffs my humble opinion


Assuming no rebuild...

They need a bonafide 2nd option on offense (would help take the load off Anthony and not have to force Porzingis to be it in just his 2nd year, let Porzingis continue to develop naturally). Someone that can create shots for himself and others. Someone that knows how to win (by having won) to set the tone. Someone that can get the respect of Anthony and the rest of the team (strengthening the team dynamic). That should be the focus. Then perimeter defenders (defensive specialists) and a role playing (situational) shooter.

There is one guy that does all that and, most importantly, may actually be signable (situation he's in, money he may not be getting, bff with Anthony). He's not ideal but ideal guys don't grow on trees and certainly won't sign with us right now.
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Re: PG: Grant Looks Like Bull in PnR 

Post#137 » by Bill Pidto » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:22 pm

moocow007 wrote:
Strick wrote:SERIOUS QUESTION: B/T KOQ and Rambis, who has MORE basketball IQ?


I'll go with what's behind door number 3 Monty

[Spoiler]Image[/Spoiler]


Damn, those are some generic ass chips, too.
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Re: PG: Grant Looks Like Bull in PnR 

Post#138 » by Reign23 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:23 pm

I think the glass is half full.
we have a current allstar, a future allstar, a talented PG, all of our future picks after june and cap space for years to come.
now get a real coach and two at least decent guards and we're good man.
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Re: PG: Grant Looks Like Bull in PnR 

Post#139 » by moocow007 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:23 pm

Bill Pidto wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
Strick wrote:SERIOUS QUESTION: B/T KOQ and Rambis, who has MORE basketball IQ?


I'll go with what's behind door number 3 Monty

[Spoiler]Image[/Spoiler]


Damn, those are some generic ass chips, too.


Hey beggars can't be choosers here. :lol:
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Re: PG: Grant Looks Like Bull in PnR 

Post#140 » by will34 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:25 pm

I'd be stunned if Thibs isn't a HC next season. Having one more year of Rambis will be a disaster while you let a top 5 HC go somewhere else.
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