Knicks- Hornets PG

[Synciere]

Just like baseball, analytics are killing NBA basketball.

All teams are taking 3-point shots at an abnormal rate. The Knicks only make 3-point shots when 3 or more planets align.

Not only is it non-entertaining, it's unwatchable.

We were told Thibs would embrace the new NBA. He did, and now we're waiting for the planets to align again before we win...or we go out and get shooters....sigh...

Yeah not everyone is supposed to shoot a bunch of threes. If you can make 60% of your midrange shots but only 20 or 30% if your threes, you should be taking midrange shots. If we want to take more threes then we have to sign/draft shooters.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Drew scammin*

Fultz improved as a shooter once he got rid of him too.

Is this the same guy that broke fultz’s shot?

Fultz shot was already broken, but he spent a summer with Hanlen and they did montages, Hanlen talked about how much he improved, Philly had him in the stands at a game too Then, Futlz still couldn't shoot and I think Fultz dropped him after some twitter beef between his camp and Hanlen, it was all a mess.

[BadNewsBarnes]

Thibs talking about players passing up open shots and being hesitant. He talking about Quickley and Rivers.

Old pro bowling adage "Trust is a must or your game is a bust". Or did I read that in a fortune cookie?

[Phish Tank]

funny thing is Alec Burks won't even fix the Knicks' issues

[god shammgod]

the 1st thing to do is start limiting how many shots rj takes by limiting his minutes. he actually takes just about as many as randle. it don't make sense.

Here's a major problem with our offense though, Bullock leads us in catch in shoot attempts per game at 4.3 attempts per game, right? RJ is second on our team taking 3.7 per game. He simply cannot shoot right now, and putting him in a role where he has to take catch and shoot shots is a failure of coaching. If that's what they want from that position then they should start Knox.



RJ is shooting 19% on catch and shoot, that's probably the worst in the league if I looked, so why keep making him do it?

but how far would you get surrounding him with shooters if you even had them ? would it better than doing that for randle ? or for a pg and mitch and run pnr over and over ? if he can't shoot, what are you gonna do with him ? i guess you could let him run the offense off the bench for 20 minutes a game but that's about the ceiling on it.

[mpharris36]

Knox struggles to put together a full game of offensive success. he always has a good half then disappears.

to be honest that is on thibs. Guy was flaming hot at the half and he doesn't check in until the 3 minute mark in the 3rd...9 minutes? Why he was our best player in the 1st half.

Semi-fair take. But tbh Knox did his under Fiz and Miller too. He just struggles to keep focus for a full game. And one miss seems to throw him off.

How many times have we seem him miss a shot or two, get pulled and is off to the sideline with an asst. coach staring off and pouting instead of looking them in the eye as they talk to him? I hate seeing that.

I'm not absolving knox of disappearing...he does this all the time. But if you a coach and you know this...get the guy right back out there in the 3rd to see if he continues to have it. The #1 job as a coach is to understand your players strengths and weaknesses and knowing knox does disappear I would have ran him right back out in the 3rd and see if he can continue the hot shooting.

[HEZI]

What did y'all think of that sequence where Randle turned it over and got butthurt and barked on Knox? Who was right/wrong? Was that leadership or some sucker schit?

I’m glad Randle did that to him with no ill intention. Knox got himself glued to that corner instead of moving without the ball to get himself open. It’s like Clyde says when playing defense with your hands instead of your feet. You can apply that to offense too. That’s something Knox needs to learn.

Yeah Knox has to do a better job understanding that Randle tends to be an idiot who likes to take off balance shots and sometimes when he gets caught in mid air he looks to pass somewhere so Knox has to do a better job of understanding where that somewhere is

[mpharris36]

funny thing is Alec Burks won't even fix the Knicks' issues

just like austin rivers wasn't either. They might have stretches of good player but they are journeymen for a reason. If they were worth something they would have been coveted on the open market. He will help but he is not a savior.

[2010]

As much as y’all clown on Elf none of our gazillion other fake ass PGs can beat him out tho (for 2 years now). So what does that make them?

It's 3 coaches now who lean on Elf over every other PG. Are y’all saying these coaches don’t want to win?

Scott Perry is an idiot for re-signing Elf but the real condemnation is the fact we still haven’t acquired a player better than Elf to run this team.

Perry acquired Mudiay too and he is out of the league already.

I mean, they all want to win, but wanting to win and being able to to win are two different things

You're right though, the issue is we've just not even tried to get an even decent PG. We don't go after VanVleet in the offseason, don't draft one at 8, and don't get aggressive enough to move up for LaMelo. I know people hate when I say this, but even if Obi is really good, we probably should have taken Haliburton over him because he's just a much bigger need and has a much clearer role on a good team

But even with the roster as-is, the issue is (as I said to start the year) that Payton is in a vacuum the "best" PG on the team, but when you look at how guys play with each other, he's a pretty bad fit. Even though Rivers is not really a PG and arguably not even really better than Payton, he's just a much better fit at starting PG for us

I think coaches focus too much on individual play, and not group play, how guys play with certain other players. Cause especially for a team full of players as flawed as our are, you can't just ignore fit and throw out the 5 "best" guys at once, you have to look at 5-man units as a whole.

Bro, I was PLEADING for them to either be aggressive and trade up for LaMelo or stand pat and take Haliburton. I had them as the clear top two PGs. We did neither.

[Phish Tank]

Knicks beat wants access, afraid to ask Thibs about burning his players out

[BBALLER4FR]

What did y'all think of that sequence where Randle turned it over and got butthurt and barked on Knox? Who was right/wrong? Was that leadership or some sucker schit?

I’m glad Randle did that to him with no ill intention. Knox got himself glued to that corner instead of moving without the ball to get himself open. It’s like Clyde says when playing defense with your hands instead of your feet. You can apply that to offense too. That’s something Knox needs to learn.

Yeah Knox has to do a better job understanding that Randle tends to be an idiot who likes to take off balance shots and sometimes when he gets caught in mid air he looks to pass somewhere so Knox has to do a better job of understanding where that somewhere is

Knox is still young. He'll learn.

[stuporman]

I don't know which is worse, Thibs offense or the Knicks shooting but they won't win many games with the scoring they have been demonstrating on this 3 game losing streak. Ugh

In acquiring players to build a team that can win it helps by finding players that can shoot and teach them to play defense as opposed to find defensive players and teach them to shoot...imo

[NoDopeOnSundays]

the 1st thing to do is start limiting how many shots rj takes by limiting his minutes. he actually takes just about as many as randle. it don't make sense.

Here's a major problem with our offense though, Bullock leads us in catch in shoot attempts per game at 4.3 attempts per game, right? RJ is second on our team taking 3.7 per game. He simply cannot shoot right now, and putting him in a role where he has to take catch and shoot shots is a failure of coaching. If that's what they want from that position then they should start Knox.



RJ is shooting 19% on catch and shoot, that's probably the worst in the league if I looked, so why keep making him do it?

but how far would you get surrounding him with shooters if you even had them ? would it better than doing that for randle ? or for a pg and mitch and run pnr over and over ? if he can't shoot, what are you gonna do with him ? i guess you could let him run the offense off the bench for 20 minutes a game but that's about the ceiling on it.

He's not a number 1 option, I've always felt he will be the 2 or 3 to the person we eventually draft, but even then if we drafted Cunningham or Suggs our floor balance is still a mess. He's not going to be a better scorer than Randle anytime soon, but the goal is to get him better for the long run. We're going to have this same problem next year too unless we make some really drastic changes, we don't need to go overboard and get a shooter at ever spot, but the most obvious ones would be PG and PF.

[2010]

Mitch as shown the most adaptability and response to coaching of all our young players. Dude went from a foul machine to really curbing it within the first 10 games. He needs more scoring opportunities now (with his efficiency) and he needs freedom to shoot the 3. The coaching staff has to encourage it. Even if it doesn't bear fruit now, it'll prove beneficial by time this team is actually good (assuming he'll still be here by then).

[thebuzzardman]

Lol Knicks. This team and every player on it sucks ass.

[mpharris36]

Mitch as show the most adaptability and response to coaching of all our young players. Dude went from a foul machine to really curbing it within the first 10 games. He needs more scoring opportunities now (with his efficiency) and he needs freedom to shoot the 3. The coaching staff has to encourage it. Even if it doesn't bear fruit now, it'll prove beneficial by time this team is actually good (assuming he'll still be here by then).

we don't run a single high P&R with him all game...smh

[DOT]

Just like baseball, analytics are killing NBA basketball.

All teams are taking 3-point shots at an abnormal rate. The Knicks only make 3-point shots when 3 or more planets align.

Not only is it non-entertaining, it's unwatchable.

We were told Thibs would embrace the new NBA. He did, and now we're waiting for the planets to align again before we win...or we go out and get shooters....sigh...

If you make 3 pointers worth 4 and 2 pointers worth 3 math changes

He's actually right though

The problem with basketball is a math problem

3 pointers are just way more valuable than most 2 pointers because they're worth 50% more. A 50% 2pt shooter is worth a 33% 3pt shooter, and it's far easier to find a guy who can shoot 33% from 3 than a guy who can shoot 50% from 2. For instance, last year there were 82 players who shot over 50% from 2, and 135 who shot over 33% from 3

If you change it so it's 4 pointers and 3 pointers, what's now a 3pt shot is only worth 33% more than what's now a 2pt shot. The math then becomes a 50% 3pt shooter is worth a 37.5% 4pt shooter, which is still relatively common, but much closer to the 50% mark, where 71 players shot over 37.5% from 3 last year

It's kinda stupid, but that's really the only way to even it out.

[HarthorneWingo]

to be honest that is on thibs. Guy was flaming hot at the half and he doesn't check in until the 3 minute mark in the 3rd...9 minutes? Why he was our best player in the 1st half.

Semi-fair take. But tbh Knox did his under Fiz and Miller too. He just struggles to keep focus for a full game. And one miss seems to throw him off.

How many times have we seem him miss a shot or two, get pulled and is off to the sideline with an asst. coach staring off and pouting instead of looking them in the eye as they talk to him? I hate seeing that.

I'm not absolving knox of disappearing...he does this all the time. But if you a coach and you know this...get the guy right back out there in the 3rd to see if he continues to have it. The #1 job as a coach is to understand your players strengths and weaknesses and knowing knox does disappear I would have ran him right back out in the 3rd and see if he can continue the hot shooting.

How about calling a play for him? Do we have plays? I remember those days when a coach would call plays to free up our hot shooters.

[Synciere]

As much as y’all clown on Elf none of our gazillion other fake ass PGs can beat him out tho (for 2 years now). So what does that make them?

It's 3 coaches now who lean on Elf over every other PG. Are y’all saying these coaches don’t want to win?

Scott Perry is an idiot for re-signing Elf but the real condemnation is the fact we still haven’t acquired a player better than Elf to run this team.

Perry acquired Mudiay too and he is out of the league already.

I mean, they all want to win, but wanting to win and being able to to win are two different things

You're right though, the issue is we've just not even tried to get an even decent PG. We don't go after VanVleet in the offseason, don't draft one at 8, and don't get aggressive enough to move up for LaMelo. I know people hate when I say this, but even if Obi is really good, we probably should have taken Haliburton over him because he's just a much bigger need and has a much clearer role on a good team

But even with the roster as-is, the issue is (as I said to start the year) that Payton is in a vacuum the "best" PG on the team, but when you look at how guys play with each other, he's a pretty bad fit. Even though Rivers is not really a PG and arguably not even really better than Payton, he's just a much better fit at starting PG for us

I think coaches focus too much on individual play, and not group play, how guys play with certain other players. Cause especially for a team full of players as flawed as our are, you can't just ignore fit and throw out the 5 "best" guys at once, you have to look at 5-man units as a whole.

Bro, I was PLEADING for them to either be aggressive and trade up for LaMelo or stand pat and take Haliburton. I had them as the clear top two PGs. We did neither.

In a vacuum I agre le with you but the draft is supposed to be drafting for the next decade, not the next year. Free agency is for needs. It’s clear their move for a point guard was moving up a few spots for IQ.

[thebuzzardman]

These games are so much better when you just look for the positives with the kids

LaMelo would have been nice though

The kids suck