Training camp 2021

[EvanZ]

We are not chasing wins if Wiseman is gifted 20+ minutes from the jump this season. Period. Anyone who doesn't get that needs to think about another hobby or start following OKC.

[and1GS]

James will be lucky to get a consistent 15 once fully healthy. If he really shows out, then that will go up, but I'd expect 10-15 minutes for his first couple months dependent on matchups.

[Scoots1994]

I expect Wiseman to get a reasonable shot at 20-25 minutes as soon as he's ready to play, and have a reasonable chance to start.

Then we aren't trying to win

That said, I also expect his role when he's on the floor to be much simplified from how they were using him last year.

Then we arent trying to develop him

He showed flashes of a really interesting game, let's hope he can put them together more consistently and earn even more time because it's always better when young guys earn the PT.

I agree, but nothing above that you said seems to line up with it. If we do want a fully developed Wiseman, that means you have to play to what he can do, and that involves a lot of offense. But he's so bad at it currently. Same with defense. And I maintain that he needs GL time to get comfortable with the ball / reading defenses, and then once thats in his toolbox he can apply it at the NBA level and concurrently learn-on-the-fly our defensive rotations. Because if the game slows down on offense for him, it seems more likely that it will slow down defensively as well.

But we're not going to get him there by teaching him to be McGee and then hoping his extremely raw offense shakes out at the NBA level only (people are so quick to forget how most HS players were stunted because they only could play in the NBA and half their game never developed).. if you want a fully functional Wiseman in the future, don't earmark him for any time this year at all, just develop. If we wanted a rebound/defense C, we could have gone that route for MLE type money or 2nd round picks. Don't kneecap what Wiseman could be for some minimal returns in what's effectively the 2nd half of his rookie season

You are still making assumptions on what his game is like now. Neither of us know. I think it has probably improved some.

It is possible that Wiseman playing the first 6 minutes a game does improve the Warriors chance to win. It may not, we don't know.

Simplifying his role does not mean they are not developing him. Getting him to focus on a few things can allow them to tune those parts of his game faster and better than a more complex role.

Last year he was clearly mentally lost at times and the more they ask of him the more likely he will over think it.

[FNQ]

I expect Wiseman to get a reasonable shot at 20-25 minutes as soon as he's ready to play, and have a reasonable chance to start.

Then we aren't trying to win

That said, I also expect his role when he's on the floor to be much simplified from how they were using him last year.

Then we arent trying to develop him

He showed flashes of a really interesting game, let's hope he can put them together more consistently and earn even more time because it's always better when young guys earn the PT.

I agree, but nothing above that you said seems to line up with it. If we do want a fully developed Wiseman, that means you have to play to what he can do, and that involves a lot of offense. But he's so bad at it currently. Same with defense. And I maintain that he needs GL time to get comfortable with the ball / reading defenses, and then once thats in his toolbox he can apply it at the NBA level and concurrently learn-on-the-fly our defensive rotations. Because if the game slows down on offense for him, it seems more likely that it will slow down defensively as well.

But we're not going to get him there by teaching him to be McGee and then hoping his extremely raw offense shakes out at the NBA level only (people are so quick to forget how most HS players were stunted because they only could play in the NBA and half their game never developed).. if you want a fully functional Wiseman in the future, don't earmark him for any time this year at all, just develop. If we wanted a rebound/defense C, we could have gone that route for MLE type money or 2nd round picks. Don't kneecap what Wiseman could be for some minimal returns in what's effectively the 2nd half of his rookie season

You are still making assumptions on what his game is like now. Neither of us know. I think it has probably improved some.

It is possible that Wiseman playing the first 6 minutes a game does improve the Warriors chance to win. It may not, we don't know.

Simplifying his role does not mean they are not developing him. Getting him to focus on a few things can allow them to tune those parts of his game faster and better than a more complex role.

Last year he was clearly mentally lost at times and the more they ask of him the more likely he will over think it.

Ok so let's try this.

I think Smailagic will be a quality player in 2021. That's my stance, and if you say that he probably wont, we're both assuming, so we're both on equal footing logically.

That's not how it works. If you want to argue that a guy who has had limited time to play with his team, definitely limited time in actual 5 on 5 scenarios full-contact, after a rookie season of doing extremely poorly, is going to all of a sudden do much better and there's no rhyme or reason to it, its not anywhere near the same as saying that he's probably going to pick up where he left off.

This shouldnt have to be repeated this much. No one's saying its a fact that Wiseman's going to come out and suck. Most people are saying he should have to prove he's worthy of any rotation time because of how bad he was. You've planted your flag on the far other side and are trying to act like we're both making educated guesses, and we aren't.

The anti-Wiseman crew was brutal last year. Is this going to be the over-correction? Because its just as emotionally driven and working backwards from an unlikely answer

[Scoots1994]

We are not chasing wins if Wiseman is gifted 20+ minutes from the jump this season. Period. Anyone who doesn't get that needs to think about another hobby or start following OKC.

What do you mean "gifted"?

[Scoots1994]

Then we aren't trying to win

Then we arent trying to develop him



I agree, but nothing above that you said seems to line up with it. If we do want a fully developed Wiseman, that means you have to play to what he can do, and that involves a lot of offense. But he's so bad at it currently. Same with defense. And I maintain that he needs GL time to get comfortable with the ball / reading defenses, and then once thats in his toolbox he can apply it at the NBA level and concurrently learn-on-the-fly our defensive rotations. Because if the game slows down on offense for him, it seems more likely that it will slow down defensively as well.

But we're not going to get him there by teaching him to be McGee and then hoping his extremely raw offense shakes out at the NBA level only (people are so quick to forget how most HS players were stunted because they only could play in the NBA and half their game never developed).. if you want a fully functional Wiseman in the future, don't earmark him for any time this year at all, just develop. If we wanted a rebound/defense C, we could have gone that route for MLE type money or 2nd round picks. Don't kneecap what Wiseman could be for some minimal returns in what's effectively the 2nd half of his rookie season

You are still making assumptions on what his game is like now. Neither of us know. I think it has probably improved some.

It is possible that Wiseman playing the first 6 minutes a game does improve the Warriors chance to win. It may not, we don't know.

Simplifying his role does not mean they are not developing him. Getting him to focus on a few things can allow them to tune those parts of his game faster and better than a more complex role.

Last year he was clearly mentally lost at times and the more they ask of him the more likely he will over think it.

Ok so let's try this.

I think Smailagic will be a quality player in 2021. That's my stance, and if you say that he probably wont, we're both assuming, so we're both on equal footing logically.

That's not how it works. If you want to argue that a guy who has had limited time to play with his team, definitely limited time in actual 5 on 5 scenarios full-contact, after a rookie season of doing extremely poorly, is going to all of a sudden do much better and there's no rhyme or reason to it, its not anywhere near the same as saying that he's probably going to pick up where he left off.

This shouldnt have to be repeated this much. No one's saying its a fact that Wiseman's going to come out and suck. Most people are saying he should have to prove he's worthy of any rotation time because of how bad he was. You've planted your flag on the far other side and are trying to act like we're both making educated guesses, and we aren't.

The anti-Wiseman crew was brutal last year. Is this going to be the over-correction? Because its just as emotionally driven and working backwards from an unlikely answer

What reason is there to think Wiseman didn't get any better? The team have been very positive about him, they brought in multiple coaches to focus on him. He came in with essentially no college season and no off-season and no pre-season and wasn't good. There is no disputing that, but in the history of the NBA the vast majority of teenage bigs struggled a lot as rookies and then got better. What makes you think he won't get better?

I never said he didn't have to prove anything to get time, I said I expected him to get a shot at good minutes.

[FNQ]

You are still making assumptions on what his game is like now. Neither of us know. I think it has probably improved some.

It is possible that Wiseman playing the first 6 minutes a game does improve the Warriors chance to win. It may not, we don't know.

Simplifying his role does not mean they are not developing him. Getting him to focus on a few things can allow them to tune those parts of his game faster and better than a more complex role.

Last year he was clearly mentally lost at times and the more they ask of him the more likely he will over think it.

Ok so let's try this.

I think Smailagic will be a quality player in 2021. That's my stance, and if you say that he probably wont, we're both assuming, so we're both on equal footing logically.

That's not how it works. If you want to argue that a guy who has had limited time to play with his team, definitely limited time in actual 5 on 5 scenarios full-contact, after a rookie season of doing extremely poorly, is going to all of a sudden do much better and there's no rhyme or reason to it, its not anywhere near the same as saying that he's probably going to pick up where he left off.

This shouldnt have to be repeated this much. No one's saying its a fact that Wiseman's going to come out and suck. Most people are saying he should have to prove he's worthy of any rotation time because of how bad he was. You've planted your flag on the far other side and are trying to act like we're both making educated guesses, and we aren't.

The anti-Wiseman crew was brutal last year. Is this going to be the over-correction? Because its just as emotionally driven and working backwards from an unlikely answer

What reason is there to think Wiseman didn't get any better? The team have been very positive about him, they brought in multiple coaches to focus on him. He came in with essentially no college season and no off-season and no pre-season and wasn't good. There is no disputing that, but in the history of the NBA the vast majority of teenage bigs struggled a lot as rookies and then got better. What makes you think he won't get better?

I never said he didn't have to prove anything to get time, I said I expected him to get a shot at good minutes.

If we're going to look at HS kids (bigs) and their trajectory, we should be very clear about it:

- the majority of them didn't pan out at all (Kwame, Bender, Ebi, L.Smith, Diop, Swift , Bynum)
- of the ones that became 20mpg/starter types, the majority of them played one side of the ball (E Curry, Chandler, DMiles, Amare, Perkins, Al Jeff)
- except for ones who were freaks upon entry (KG, Dwight), the majority took 3+ years to be positive impact players, and none of them were on actually good teams

And those people were healthy. Wiseman played half a season, was very bad, got injured, and has not been able to play since. If improvements happened in a classroom, sure, we could assume he'd be better than he was last year. But truth is he's been out nearly the entire time. He's only recently even gotten back into the gym at all. So no, I dont think he got better while doing nothing the past 7+ months. He'll get better as he can now do basketball things, but the idea that he got better simply by aging - not even working out, just aging - doesn't track to me.

Because Looney and Nemo look to be good fits for us, he shouldn't be given many if any meaningful minutes to start. Simply put, he hasnt earned them, and they have. And we're trying to win (and hopefully develop Wiseman as best we can) and throwing him back into the NBA player pool is counterproductive. And I know some here disagree with that, but the trajectory of these uber-talented HS kids was SLOWER than one and done kids coming from college.

Wiseman needs to learn to play the game first, learn how to react to NBA caliber athletes - even if they are small, even if they are GLeaguers. And then bring that confidence up to the NBA level where we can integrate him into the offense, and he can earn his spot like Poole did

[xdrta+]

Wiseman will go to the G league as he completes his recovery, though he probably won't play in games. Then he'll continue his development with the coaches the Warriors brought in to develop him. As his conditioning improves, he'll start to get minutes in games. Kerr has already said all this more than once. I don't know how there can be so much discussion over the obvious.

[Scoots1994]

Wiseman will go to the G league as he completes his recovery, though he probably won't play in games. Then he'll continue his development with the coaches the Warriors brought in to develop him. As his conditioning improves, he'll start to get minutes in games. Kerr has already said all this more than once. I don't know how there can be so much discussion over the obvious.

I think it's, at least in part, based on people thinking he can't improve on last year. I think it's also a disconnect between the optimists and pessimists on what is possible vs what is likely vs what is certain.

I don't know that they'll send him to Santa Cruz at all, but I do think there will be a ramp up over time as they work him in physically and scheme-wise.