PG: Pistons vs Knicks

[3toheadmelo]

Honestly though if we get 16-18 ppg again with +40% from 3 from RJ with him being relied on being our top perimeter/wing defender I think that is a pretty good step.

I mean we did pay Fournier a good chunk of money to be an additional scorer too. So if its not Kemba, fournier also has to pull his weight.

rj is good at what he does as a role player. just want him to be more than that since we drafted him #3. we need him to be able to get buckets on his own. he’s still the same. jacking up spot up 3’s or driving to the rim which he’s not really good at.

tbh I have my doubts about Fournier showing up every night. I get streaky vibes from him

I think you are selling him short on just calling him a role player. Mikal Bridges is a role player (and a very good one for that fact).

RJ nearly avg 18 ppg last year. If he adds being a top tier 2-way player I wouldn't call that a role player. I mean he was a couple pts and assists from putting up Khris Middelton type per game production as a 20 year old last year. I see that as pretty solid growth.

His TS% took a huge leap last year from 48% to nearly 54%. If he can get closer to league avg 56-57% while maintaining his near 18ppg this year which I think is possible. Plus being our best 2-way player. I think that is great growth for a 21 year old kid especially for where he was as a rookie.

you’re looking at numbers instead of their actual games. Middleton has always been able to create his own shot. rj cant. rj gets 16-18 points just by jacking up spot up 3’s and layups. and tbh he did look like mikal in the playoffs. which again is a great role player but we need more than that since we drafted him #3. eventually he’s going to ask for a max contract so he needs to start flashing some star potential if he wants to live up to his contract.

[damedash09]

Look like a copy of last season relying on randle

Rj is hit or miss - my bold prediction is that grimes will be the better player . He needs to play

[Deeeez Knicks]

RJ had a bad shooting game but still put up 12/7/6. He made some nice set-up passes. He seems like he's a 2-way swiss army knife player that can do a little bit of everything which is valuable right now. Just eye test, he looks a little better on the floor. His defense looks great. Just have to see how he progress's. He may not be a star overnight, but wouldn't rule him out getting there one day.

Yep, in a sort of Michael Finley way.

Or even like a Luol Deng type player. They are not gonna be a #1 or maybe not even #2 guys but they are good players who made allstar teams and were valuable on good teams.

[3toheadmelo]

I'm not expecting RJ to make that leap yet. If it ever happens, it'll materialize in year 4 or 5 in my opinion. He was rawer as a prospect than people thought, so it'll take him time.

Julius and RJ are quite similar as players, except Randle's further along in his development (and flat-out better) because of age. Maybe RJ will never catch up to him, maybe he will, I don't know.

But neither is efficient, nor athletic, nor can they finish at the rim, although Julius is better at it than RJ.

Bottom line is they both need to become more efficient in their respective roles. Julius as the star, RJ as a role player.

I guess I have higher expectations for Randle because of his age and his contract extension.

i have high expectations for RJ since we drafted him #3 overall and theres a lot of hype around him as a future star. it’s disappointing to see any growth in his game so far. his defense looks a little better but that’s about it. offensively we need him to be more than a role player or teams will just focus on Randle in the playoffs like the hawks did and we’ll be fked again

Thibs now has the option to play multiple guys who can create their own shot if RJ doesn't have it going.

Rose, Kemba, IQ, Burks, Fournier... I don't think he'll hesitate to bench RJ if he can't provide the level of shot creation the team needs.

It's true we must keep high (but realistic) expectations for RJ. I just always thought it would take him longer to get there than advertised. If he still can't finish at the rim or doesn't show any semblance of shot creation by year 4, then I'll start to worry. His movements seem more fluid this preseason by the way, so I think he's starting to get more comfortable.

Neither RJ nor Randle has excuses to be inefficient this year, I'll put it that way.

they’ll both be more efficient. but last night was just disappointing how we had to rely on Randle to bail us out again when we should be expecting RJ to help him out. idk how much trust I have in Fournier cause he seems streaky and kemba looks like he’s gonna have rest days.

[Guano]

Forum asked for a culture change, got it, proceeded to complain.

i spent most of my the last 20 years of my life watching the knicks, of course i dont know how to let myself feel pride\happiness

I'll have to admit it's been a real challenge. 90% of my posting is built on negativity. I'm using the preseason to work on this, but like RJ's dribble drive game, may take another year. Or never.

wheezing

[FreeSpiritNY]

Thibs setting the tone early so the team can hit the ground running. I have no problem with him coaching as if these games matter. It’s actually quite refreshing cuz I remember the days of going into the 1st month of the season with no set rotation and coaches like Fiz and Hornacek still playing 11-man rotations.

Compared to other years they will come out with the same amount of minutes played because there is less pre season games.

Thibs is the opposite of Joe judge the giants head coach.

He didn’t play his starters in preseason and it shows.

You get paid millions upon millions you should be able to work half a year. Along with take care of you’re body.

I did so when I wasn’t getting paid millions with a personal chef and my own facility and personal doctors.


People really over look into the minutes.

My coach would rub us down in practice because he said even if your having bad games you’ll out play them on defense and they will be tired and once they are tired you will catch back up and out score them.

We won the title that year and went undefeated.

Long story short condition yourself in the off season do post game regime to take care of you’re body and you should be fine.

Penn State? Ohio Wrestling?

Hahahaha RUN US DOWN Or RUN us out the gym,…… that was a really bad typo on my part hahahahahahah

[gavran]

also i think bullocks defense has gotten overrated. i don’t recall this guy locking up elite players and I actually remember him getting lit up by stars quite often. i don’t really see a big drop off on defense with him gone. rj should be just as good there if not better and I think Fournier can be solid as the season goes on

Elite players don't get locked up, and starts usually lit up their defenders. That is why they are elite players and starts.

[3toheadmelo]

He improved a ton last year and the season didnt even start. How can you be disappointed in his growth?

the season already started with the way Thibs is playing the starters

it’s disappointing that he still can’t create off the dribble. and I’m not the only one who feels that way. you think we’re “trolling” when we call him a good role player but what exactly makes him as a future super star if he can’t create his own shot?

Its fair if you dont think he will be a star or if you dont like his game. But you guys are def trolling when you call him RJ Bullocks or say to trade him in every thread

Maybe he will never be great at creating his own shot off the dribble or iso'ing. But he can still be a good player and key contributor by doing a bunch of things. I dont know what everyone's defintion of a role player is, but think he can be more then that....a really good starter at the least. He did improve a ton already too so I just wouldnt sleep on him to keep on improving...just may not all happen at once.

cmon, rj bullocks is hilarious and I’ve only said to trade rj if it made sense like if we’re getting a young player with star potential or an established star that fits with our timeline


i agree he’s a pretty good starter. just want him to be more. maybe it happens eventually.

[3toheadmelo]

Look like a copy of last season relying on randle

Rj is hit or miss - my bold prediction is that grimes will be the better player . He needs to play

I really think he can be way better than RJ offensively

i think so too. Grimes can create his own shot and actually hit shots off the dribble. he prob will never get his opportunity here though unfortunately

[DaGawd]

Look like a copy of last season relying on randle

Rj is hit or miss - my bold prediction is that grimes will be the better player . He needs to play

Grimes a better player than RJ?

what are we doing here folks...

I know it sounds crazy but you look at Grimes game and see right off the bat a modern day offensive wing/guard. The effortless outside shooting stand still and off the bounce. Looks like he has decent court vision too from the summer league games. If given the same amount of opportunity as RJ it could be closer than you think

[mpharris36]

rj is good at what he does as a role player. just want him to be more than that since we drafted him #3. we need him to be able to get buckets on his own. he’s still the same. jacking up spot up 3’s or driving to the rim which he’s not really good at.

tbh I have my doubts about Fournier showing up every night. I get streaky vibes from him

I think you are selling him short on just calling him a role player. Mikal Bridges is a role player (and a very good one for that fact).

RJ nearly avg 18 ppg last year. If he adds being a top tier 2-way player I wouldn't call that a role player. I mean he was a couple pts and assists from putting up Khris Middelton type per game production as a 20 year old last year. I see that as pretty solid growth.

His TS% took a huge leap last year from 48% to nearly 54%. If he can get closer to league avg 56-57% while maintaining his near 18ppg this year which I think is possible. Plus being our best 2-way player. I think that is great growth for a 21 year old kid especially for where he was as a rookie.

you’re looking at numbers instead of their actual games. Middleton has always been able to create his own shot. rj cant. rj gets 16-18 points just by jacking up spot up 3’s and layups. and tbh he did look like mikal in the playoffs. which again is a great role player but we need more than that since we drafted him #3. eventually he’s going to ask for a max contract so he needs to start flashing some star potential if he wants to live up to his contract.

It took middelton year 4 when he was 24 years old to break 20% USG rating. He was not creating his own shot early in his career. He was pretty much a floor spacer/C&S guy early in his career.

Middelton really broke out in year 4 before his injury with an expanded game as someone that could shoot off the dribble.

[Deeeez Knicks]

the season already started with the way Thibs is playing the starters

it’s disappointing that he still can’t create off the dribble. and I’m not the only one who feels that way. you think we’re “trolling” when we call him a good role player but what exactly makes him as a future super star if he can’t create his own shot?

Its fair if you dont think he will be a star or if you dont like his game. But you guys are def trolling when you call him RJ Bullocks or say to trade him in every thread

Maybe he will never be great at creating his own shot off the dribble or iso'ing. But he can still be a good player and key contributor by doing a bunch of things. I dont know what everyone's defintion of a role player is, but think he can be more then that....a really good starter at the least. He did improve a ton already too so I just wouldnt sleep on him to keep on improving...just may not all happen at once.

cmon, rj bullocks is hilarious and I’ve only said to trade rj if it made sense like if we’re getting a young player with star potential or an established star that fits with our timeline


i agree he’s a pretty good starter. just want him to be more. maybe it happens eventually.

Its funny but also very heavy on the slander so we are taking notes

[3toheadmelo]

I think you are selling him short on just calling him a role player. Mikal Bridges is a role player (and a very good one for that fact).

RJ nearly avg 18 ppg last year. If he adds being a top tier 2-way player I wouldn't call that a role player. I mean he was a couple pts and assists from putting up Khris Middelton type per game production as a 20 year old last year. I see that as pretty solid growth.

His TS% took a huge leap last year from 48% to nearly 54%. If he can get closer to league avg 56-57% while maintaining his near 18ppg this year which I think is possible. Plus being our best 2-way player. I think that is great growth for a 21 year old kid especially for where he was as a rookie.

you’re looking at numbers instead of their actual games. Middleton has always been able to create his own shot. rj cant. rj gets 16-18 points just by jacking up spot up 3’s and layups. and tbh he did look like mikal in the playoffs. which again is a great role player but we need more than that since we drafted him #3. eventually he’s going to ask for a max contract so he needs to start flashing some star potential if he wants to live up to his contract.

It took middelton year 4 when he was 24 years old to break 20% USG rating. He was not creating his own shot early in his career. He was pretty much a floor spacer/C&S guy early in his career.

Middelton really broke out in year 4 before his injury with an expanded game as someone that could shoot off the dribble.

actually Middleton has always been a great scorer off the dribble. once the bucks gave him a bigger role on offense he broke out. he always had the skills, which rj doesn’t.

Middleton's ability to score off the dribble from the mid-range remains his most important skill as both a college player and NBA prospect, and he showed continued success in that area this past season. He possesses excellent creativity and feel in this area of his game, while being very comfortable finding small windows to get off shot attempts while blanketed by defenders. - Source: https://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Khris-Middleton-6332/ ©DraftExpress

From isolation situations, Middleton's efficiency is outstanding at the college level, as his 1.043 points per possessions according to Synergy ranks in the 91st percentile. - Source: https://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Khris-Middleton-6332/ ©DraftExpress

[DOT]

I didn't realize you could score 18 a night on just spot up 3s when you make less than 2 threes a game

Crazy how the math just works on that.

[3toheadmelo]

I didn't realize you could score 18 a night on just spot up 3s when you make less than 2 threes a game

Crazy how the math just works on that.

crazy how you took out the part where I said AND layups so you can run with your false narrative again

[DOT]

I didn't realize you could score 18 a night on just spot up 3s when you make less than 2 threes a game

Crazy how the math just works on that.

crazy how you took out the part where I said AND layups so you can run with your false narrative again

RJ was assisted on only 33% of his layups last year

Randle was assisted on 39% of his layups last year, for comparison's sake

Assuming all of RJ's 3s were spot-up 3s, that means spot-up 3s and assisted layups made up 42% of his made field goals. All in all, he was assisted on 52% of his made shots

Crazy how a guy who literally can't do anything but make spot up 3s and assisted layups does that.

[Clyde_Style]

I mean, I think it's a bit nuts to play every preseason game like it's a regular season game in terms of minutes, but it's only 4 of them, and we've had plenty of rest in between, so whatever

I just think we're putting a lot of faith in staying healthy this year, especially at PG with two guys with questionable injury proneness

I don't think it'll be like last year, where our defense would have been good enough to carry us if one of Rose or Kemba missed a few games, and if they're both missing multiple games at once, we're in deep sh*t.

3 days between games and he isn't even playing many guys yet. No worries based on pre-season

[Clyde_Style]

Forum asked for a culture change, got it, proceeded to complain.

i spent most of my the last 20 years of my life watching the knicks, of course i dont know how to let myself feel pride\happiness

I'll have to admit it's been a real challenge. 90% of my posting is built on negativity. I'm using the preseason to work on this, but like RJ's dribble drive game, may take another year. Or never.

Self-Shoveling works

[robillionaire]

RJ reminds me of Wiggins, not a bad player but would you really want to max him out

[Clyde_Style]

play harder than everyone in the preseason, play harder than everyone in the regular season, get exposed in the playoffs when everyone else plays as hard. the ultimate tease.