Post-Game Notes: WAS 116, BOS 107 (2-3)

[fallguy]

We don't need more of a sample size to know that Marcus Smart is not the answer at PG. Many of our concerns heading into the season about Smart in that role have rapidly proven to be true. He's better suited as the Swiss-army-knife coming off the bench. Period. There is literally no debate. He cannot shoot AT ALL and never will be able to. He's to turnover prone. The list goes on. He's a 22-25MPG guy off the bench who can bring toughness, energy, and occasionally get hot shooting. That's it.

I worry a bench role for Smart only increases his appetite to shoot since he's surrounded by less capable offensive players.

Early season overreaction: I wonder if we need a more substantial reset of the core: moving Jaylen and Smart out.

[ddb]

And yet Smart was the only Celtic to post a plus in the +/- (+3) I know that's' not popular right now and neither is this. I don't think Rob Williams plays hard enough. Always see him jogging up the floor instead of putting pressure off on a retreating defense, doesn't approach setting picks or getting into screen-n- rolls with enough force. And has been timid underneath failing to finish with force.

analytics can get you in trouble. I get that Smart was (+3) but the guy simply cannot be a starting PG. Where's Sherman Douglas when you need him

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

You don't make this kind of choice with a guy signed longterm after 5 games.

That said - Schroder is much more effective at collapsing the defense than Smart and that's something we need.

Why not? Shouldn't you be doing what's best for the team? It's not like smart lit the world on fire last year when he started either. Smart simply isn't a starting point guard. The sooner the team realizes that the better they will be.

I'm sure the players like how hard smart plays but anyone who has ever played basketball on any level at all knows one of the most annoying teammates you can have is the guy who can't shoot constantly putting up shots.

I'm with you on Smart's shooting. Smitty noted in his recap that his current percentages make him unplayable and he's right.

But what's best for the team is not to demote the guy you just handed a four-year-deal based on a five-game sample size.

It's more than a five game sample size because smart also started a bunch of games last year. He's clearly a sixth man that fell into the starter roll because Walker was constantly hurt.

But if Ime wants to continue to start smart and give him 36 minutes a game because he doesn't want to hurt his feelings then I wouldn't expect much to change with this team struggles.

[ddb]

We don't need more of a sample size to know that Marcus Smart is not the answer at PG. Many of our concerns heading into the season about Smart in that role have rapidly proven to be true. He's better suited as the Swiss-army-knife coming off the bench. Period. There is literally no debate. He cannot shoot AT ALL and never will be able to. He's to turnover prone. The list goes on. He's a 22-25MPG guy off the bench who can bring toughness, energy, and occasionally get hot shooting. That's it.

I worry a bench role for Smart only increases his appetite to shoot since he's surrounded by less capable offensive players.

Early season overreaction: I wonder if we need a more substantial reset of the core: moving Jaylen and Smart out.

I've never been opposed to Jaylen/Smart as the core of a blockbuster. Obviously, depends on who's coming back. I think Tatum is special...Jaylen's value is sky-high. A Jaylen/Smart centric package can probably net you a superstar. Obviously, not Ben Simmons or Kyrie lol. Not Beal either as I think he's going to sign in Boston outright or via "S&T".
There's no trade market developed yet. So this is something that will take time. Every team is trying to win still aside from OKC and a couple others.

[ddb]

Why not? Shouldn't you be doing what's best for the team? It's not like smart lit the world on fire last year when he started either. Smart simply isn't a starting point guard. The sooner the team realizes that the better they will be.

I'm sure the players like how hard smart plays but anyone who has ever played basketball on any level at all knows one of the most annoying teammates you can have is the guy who can't shoot constantly putting up shots.

I'm with you on Smart's shooting. Smitty noted in his recap that his current percentages make him unplayable and he's right.

But what's best for the team is not to demote the guy you just handed a four-year-deal based on a five-game sample size.

It's more than a five game sample size because smart also started a bunch of games last year. He's clearly a sixth man that fell into the starter roll because Walker was constantly hurt.

But if Ime wants to continue to start smart and give him 36 minutes a game because he doesn't want to hurt his feelings then I wouldn't expect much to change with this team struggles.

Yup. I agree. If IME is stubborn about Smart as starting PG his coaching career in Boston could be very short.

[Curmudgeon]

Sherman Douglas isn't walking through that door.

I note in passing that last night Payton Pritchard was a DNP-CD while Josh Richardson played 15 minutes and was scoreless.

[fallguy]

Why not? Shouldn't you be doing what's best for the team? It's not like smart lit the world on fire last year when he started either. Smart simply isn't a starting point guard. The sooner the team realizes that the better they will be.

I'm sure the players like how hard smart plays but anyone who has ever played basketball on any level at all knows one of the most annoying teammates you can have is the guy who can't shoot constantly putting up shots.

I'm with you on Smart's shooting. Smitty noted in his recap that his current percentages make him unplayable and he's right.

But what's best for the team is not to demote the guy you just handed a four-year-deal based on a five-game sample size.

It's more than a five game sample size because smart also started a bunch of games last year. He's clearly a sixth man that fell into the starter roll because Walker was constantly hurt.

But if Ime wants to continue to start smart and give him 36 minutes a game because he doesn't want to hurt his feelings then I wouldn't expect much to change with this team struggles.

Yeah, I think it's totally fair to argue that Smart is not a starting PG. I like Smart but that's a reasonable take for sure.

[fallguy]

We don't need more of a sample size to know that Marcus Smart is not the answer at PG. Many of our concerns heading into the season about Smart in that role have rapidly proven to be true. He's better suited as the Swiss-army-knife coming off the bench. Period. There is literally no debate. He cannot shoot AT ALL and never will be able to. He's to turnover prone. The list goes on. He's a 22-25MPG guy off the bench who can bring toughness, energy, and occasionally get hot shooting. That's it.

I worry a bench role for Smart only increases his appetite to shoot since he's surrounded by less capable offensive players.

Early season overreaction: I wonder if we need a more substantial reset of the core: moving Jaylen and Smart out.

I've never been opposed to Jaylen/Smart as the core of a blockbuster. Obviously, depends on who's coming back. I think Tatum is special...Jaylen's value is sky-high. A Jaylen/Smart centric package can probably net you a superstar. Obviously, not Ben Simmons or Kyrie lol. Not Beal either as I think he's going to sign in Boston outright or via "S&T".
There's no trade market developed yet. So this is something that will take time. Every team is trying to win still aside from OKC and a couple others.

SGA is my guy.

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

I'm with you on Smart's shooting. Smitty noted in his recap that his current percentages make him unplayable and he's right.

But what's best for the team is not to demote the guy you just handed a four-year-deal based on a five-game sample size.

It's more than a five game sample size because smart also started a bunch of games last year. He's clearly a sixth man that fell into the starter roll because Walker was constantly hurt.

But if Ime wants to continue to start smart and give him 36 minutes a game because he doesn't want to hurt his feelings then I wouldn't expect much to change with this team struggles.

Yup. I agree. If IME is stubborn about Smart as starting PG his coaching career in Boston could be very short.

The organization absolutely loves smart so honestly wouldn't surprise me if Ime It's getting orders from the top to keep playing smart big minutes.

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

I'm with you on Smart's shooting. Smitty noted in his recap that his current percentages make him unplayable and he's right.

But what's best for the team is not to demote the guy you just handed a four-year-deal based on a five-game sample size.

It's more than a five game sample size because smart also started a bunch of games last year. He's clearly a sixth man that fell into the starter roll because Walker was constantly hurt.

But if Ime wants to continue to start smart and give him 36 minutes a game because he doesn't want to hurt his feelings then I wouldn't expect much to change with this team struggles.

Yeah, I think it's totally fair to argue that Smart is not a starting PG. I like Smart but that's a reasonable take for sure.

He's not and what makes it especially worse is that we have a starting caliber point guard coming off the bench.

Having Dennis Schroeder come off the bench may work on a team that starts out fast and needs a guy to steady the bench on the second unit when the starters come out.

It doesn't work on a team that's constantly getting off to slow starts and playing from behind just about the entire game.

[return2glory]

I thought JT had this moments keeping this team in the game, but he is far from a leader. Disappeared in the do 4th. Smart annoyed me per usual.

Tonight was a gut check for Jaylen. I am a big fan of his but this was a terrible look for him tonight. If he doesn't wake up there's going to be a big shake up coming with his name on it

Not disagreeing on Tatum but in his defense I'm not a big fan of him sitting out the 1st 5 or 6 minutes of the 4th quarter it seems to kill all of his intensity

Exactly. Through 5 games, that's been the trend. He kept Tatum out too long in the 4th vs the Hornets and we almost lost the game because of that. We could easily be 1-4 now.

There is a reason why Tatum has gone from the best 4th quarter scorer in the league last season to being a non factor.
It's only 5 games, but Ime is making mistakes and are common sense moves right now and that's concerning.

[Red2]

Not for nothing but we did lose two scorers so that at least 30 points a game. Theres a lot of pressure on brown and tatum to produce every night and so far they haven’t been able to do that consistently. We need a bona fide shooting guard . I know Nesmith has been bad so far but at least he can shoot. I would consider starting him in the backcourt with Schroeder and bringing smart off the bench. Id also think about bringing Al off the bench and starting anothrr big like juanchonor bruno

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

Not for nothing but we did lose two scorers so that at least 30 points a game. Theres a lot of pressure on brown and tatum to produce every night and so far they haven’t been able to do that consistently. We need a bona fide shooting guard . I know Nesmith has been bad so far but at least he can shoot. I would consider starting him in the backcourt with Schroeder and bringing smart off the bench. Id also think about bringing Al off the bench and starting anothrr big like juanchonor bruno

I don't know man nothing I've seen from Nesmith makes me think he should even sniff the starting line up. He had a pretty good stretch of a couple games last year where he looked promising but overall he's been pretty disappointing.

You can make a case for Schroeder starting over smart but in no way can you make the same case for Nesmith.

[Green89]

Smart stars
7-4-4 25% shooting

Dennis schroder
16-4-6 40% shooting.

I'm sure some people will pull some advanced stats nonsense but looking at the difference between the two why would smart continue to start? If you have a guy that is a better shooter and equal rebounder and a better distributor why would you not start him considering how many times this team has a slow start?

As soon as this team took the floor on game 1, it was very, very clear our biggest weakness is there's not a bonafide 3rd option on offense after the Jays, and not enough shooters around the Jays. It's super easy for opposing coaches to come up with defensive game plans against us. Rob, Grant, and Smart starting around the Jays, or even adding in Horford, just isn't enough in this offensive mindset league. Those lineups are not working in this league now.

Smart should absolutely not be starting, nor should he be in the game on ANY offensive possession in crunch time out of a timeout. However, even if he comes off the bench and plays later with only 1 of the Jays, it's easy for teams to double Tatum and force the ball to Smart. We need to pick up another scorer or it's going to be a long season. And you don't only get your best scorer 3 FGs in the 4th quarter of any game. That's an automatic win for the other team, and makes it too easy for them on defense. Ime HAS to get Tatum the ball more in the 4th.

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

And yet Smart was the only Celtic to post a plus in the +/- (+3) I know that's' not popular right now and neither is this. I don't think Rob Williams plays hard enough. Always see him jogging up the floor instead of putting pressure off on a retreating defense, doesn't approach setting picks or getting into screen-n- rolls with enough force. And has been timid underneath failing to finish with force.

analytics can get you in trouble. I get that Smart was (+3) but the guy simply cannot be a starting PG. Where's Sherman Douglas when you need him

+/- is just the worst way to measure how well a player played. I could be wrong but I don't think missed shots have any bearing on it.

So a player could take 15 bad shots and miss them all and it won't affect his plus-minus rating at all.

[Green89]

Another game with the two bigs line up..
I dont care if smart or shroder start. Smart has been really bad, but he is not important enough. Or at least, shouldn't be important enough on offense.
Tatum has no advantages playing the 3, He is not faster then others playing this position, thus taking more contested shots and not assisting his teamates.
Horfie and TL clogg the paint on offense.
Also, we play switch defense - IF playing switch defense - don't play big! This is BASIC stuff.
With a team that has a lot of guards, and so many bigs, playing the two bigs line-up also destroy our balance and bench.
Also, horfie and tatum are same height, I just cant see the advantage.
Miami is playing 6'5 Tucker at power forward FCOL.

I started posting here only recently, but Im reading this forum for years. Yeah I was diasapointed with the team at times. They don't put in the effoer and focus consistently..
This is the only Celtics team ever that make me cringe, and not care at all about the game on the screen. Its like their "I don't care" attitude infects me through the screen. That has never happened. Not even in the Jiri Welsch years..
Brad's team last year came close. Kyrie's year were also frustrating. But not like what we are seeing now.

Starting line up should be
Shroder, Smart , Brown, Tatum, Horfie
This is not ideal bc of shooting. Id like Brad to find a shooter who is good enough to start
Then its:
Smart, a shooter, Brown, Tatum, Williams,
With Horfie and Shroder leading the second unit. That's ideal in my opinion.

Who knows?
Maybe Nesmith/Langford/Richardson can do that.
Nesmith is a good shooter, but not good enough all around. If Richardson can be an average shooter like he was im Miami, then our problems are solved.

We don't find a shooter/game changer and keep Smart.

Smart as the starting PG is such an issue. Teams will let him beat them, and fail. Meanwhile, our entitled super stars have to work twice as hard, and probably are indifferent.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Rondo was running the point in his second year in the league, with no outside shot at all and no offensive game.
It was enough for a championship.

Last year - PJ Tucker played over 30 min a night and scord 4 (!) points a game in the suns series. Same as his stats in the playoffs.

Rondo had 3 deadly HOF offensive juggernauts around him. Tucker had arguably the best offensive scoring threat in the league alongside him. Neither lineup is similar to ours.

[GoGreen]

Not for nothing but we did lose two scorers so that at least 30 points a game. Theres a lot of pressure on brown and tatum to produce every night and so far they haven’t been able to do that consistently. We need a bona fide shooting guard . I know Nesmith has been bad so far but at least he can shoot. I would consider starting him in the backcourt with Schroeder and bringing smart off the bench. Id also think about bringing Al off the bench and starting anothrr big like juanchonor bruno

I don't know man nothing I've seen from Nesmith makes me think he should even sniff the starting line up. He had a pretty good stretch of a couple games last year where he looked promising but overall he's been pretty disappointing.

You can make a case for Schroeder starting over smart but in no way you can make the same case for Nesmith.

I hate to agree with this, but I do. I want Nesmith to be that shooter this team desperately needs, but every time I've seen him out there this year he looks like a chicken with its head cut off

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

Not for nothing but we did lose two scorers so that at least 30 points a game. Theres a lot of pressure on brown and tatum to produce every night and so far they haven’t been able to do that consistently. We need a bona fide shooting guard . I know Nesmith has been bad so far but at least he can shoot. I would consider starting him in the backcourt with Schroeder and bringing smart off the bench. Id also think about bringing Al off the bench and starting anothrr big like juanchonor bruno

I don't know man nothing I've seen from Nesmith makes me think he should even sniff the starting line up. He had a pretty good stretch of a couple games last year where he looked promising but overall he's been pretty disappointing.

You can make a case for Schroeder starting over smart but in no way you can make the same case for Nesmith.

I hate to agree with this, but I do. I want Nesmith to be that shooter this team desperately needs, but every time I've seen him out there this year he looks like a chicken with its head cut off

I want the kid to succeed as well he was a dead eye shooter in college and it would be huge if he could contribute.

Yeah he does look a bit lost out there. It was even mentioned last year the kid plays so hard and aggressive that they were afraid he was going to get hurt because he was so all over the place.

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

We don't find a shooter/game changer and keep Smart.

Smart as the starting PG is such an issue. Teams will let him beat them, and fail. Meanwhile, our entitled super stars have to work twice as hard, and probably are indifferent.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Rondo was running the point in his second year in the league, with no outside shot at all and no offensive game.
It was enough for a championship.

Last year - PJ Tucker played over 30 min a night and scord 4 (!) points a game in the suns series. Same as his stats in the playoffs.

Rondo had 3 deadly HOF offensive juggernauts around him. Tucker had arguably the best offensive scoring threat in the league alongside him. Neither lineup is similar to ours.

He's comparing two championship teams to a team that is a potential playoff team. It's just not a good comparison at all to make a case for smart lol.

[playa-hater]

My god we as fans are pathetic.

New coach
Roster overhaul
Positional changes


And people bitching relentlessless and pointing blame on individual players.

It has been 5 games.


5 games

dude this is the same shet said last year at this time.. I made a thread last year after 20 games about "fixing" the Celtics and I got nothing but "what the F are you talking about" and excuses over and over.. Posters acted like everything is all sunshine and stuff will correct it self.. well we saw what happened last year. In Fact the once promising "top 5" coach left/fired/kicked upstairs etc.. Even Ainge, who was glorified, is gone..

Even the "most optimistic posters" have to know there is some real problems out there. Claiming it's just 5 games, yet it totally reflects the same problems we gave had for a while, is really turning a "blind eye"

With all that said, Can Boston "right the ship" I certainly hope so.. But to call out Posters for "bitching relentlessly" sounds more like you are the one doing the "bitching" but not at the team but at us.. for making our case, on a message board..