Game 6: Pistons (1-4) @ Nets (3-3) - Oct. 31 7:30 PM EST

[thesack12]

Casey's rotations are so out of whack, that Diallo who started tonight, is on the floor in closing minutes of a 25 point blowout.

Weirder still, Diallo got the start after a DNP coach's decision last night.

[Liqourish]

Garza can hit his fts.

[DBC10]

So I didn't watch the game but did Cojo playing benefit the team to learn from him at all this game? Enough of an impact to supersede whatever growth Lee could potentially get if he gotten Cojo's minutes?

Because if not, then the simple solution is to play Lee more than 5 minutes a night

Really more of a rhetorical question

[Liqourish]

Garza takes the charge

[JLiv]

I suspect Cade ankles are swollen??Why even have the guy return for Orlando games?

Was it wrapped up on the sideline or something?

[Liqourish]

I suspect Cade ankles are swollen??Why even have the guy return for Orlando games?

Was it wrapped up on the sideline or something?

Nope, he was up cheering for his teammates all game long. I think the Pistons are babying him. I understand being cautious. But if he's fine to play, he's fine to play. Put him on a minutes restriction, but play him.

[bstein14]

Killian with 1-5 shooting and 4 TO's and just 2 assists... BUT this was probably his best game of the year. Played hard defensively and did really well stepping into the passing lanes to get 5 steals... plus he had a nice charge taken. He still was -21 in 22 minutes and didn't provide much offensively, BUT you have to be excited to see what he did on the defensive side of the ball tonight.

[Canadafan]

This is supposedly a rebuild yet all I see is CoJo, Lyles and Olynyk on the floor night after night. It's going to be a long season if we have to not only watch the Pistons lose but lose with vets playing the most minutes.

Getting that trade value up

[Pistonrings]

Killian with 1-5 shooting and 4 TO's and just 2 assists... BUT this was probably his best game of the year. Played hard defensively and did really well stepping into the passing lanes to get 5 steals... plus he had a nice charge taken. He still was -21 in 22 minutes and didn't provide much offensively, BUT you have to be excited to see what he did on the defensive side of the ball tonight.

Hmm, Grant was also a -21, and he had 0 steals, only one assist, also 4 turnovers and was only 5-15. He didn't play nearly the D that Killian did, yet you didn't mention him, and he is actually depended on to be one of our main scorers. Why didn't you mention his bad performance, he is a vet, Killian played the the 31st game of his career.

[Pistonrings]

Killian with 1-5 shooting and 4 TO's and just 2 assists... BUT this was probably his best game of the year. Played hard defensively and did really well stepping into the passing lanes to get 5 steals... plus he had a nice charge taken. He still was -21 in 22 minutes and didn't provide much offensively, BUT you have to be excited to see what he did on the defensive side of the ball tonight.

Hmm, Grant was also a -21, and he had 0 steals, only one assist, also 4 turnovers and was only 5-15. He didn't play nearly the D that Killian did, yet you didn't mention him, and he is actually depended on to be one of our main scorers. Why didn't you mention his bad performance, he is a vet, Killian played the the 31st game of his career.

The more I check in to the box, the more I see how strange it is that you seem to do focus on anything you can say bad about Killian, yet leave out gobs if horrible stuff from other players, why?

Looking at the box, did you happen to see that our 2 main centers, Beef Stew and KO together played 39 minutes and 2 sec, and they had a total of THREE REBOUNDS BETWEEN THEM.

Let me repeat that, our two centers that played 39:02 had a grand total of THREE REBOUNDS.

Strange that you would tell us about Killian having a great defensive night, then mentioning he only had 2 assists when if our shooters, the guys who we actually depend on for points, would just shoot a normal percentage he would have had 6 or 7 assist.

And in the box score at the top of this page Grant is the first guy listed, impossible to miss his very poor night and yet skip down to Killian who had a better night than he did, almost like you have an agenda.

Add in Grant, our main power forward with our 2 centers, he had 4 rebounds, so 7 total rebounds out of our 2 centers and main PF and Grant played over 27 minutes.

Grants poor play this season has hurt this team as much or more than Killian has. We Count on Grant to be our main guy, but his shooting woes have not been good. When he pulls out of it, as do the other players, we will see Killian's assists go up to around 6 a game. He already scored 9 (should have been 11 had KO not been called for a ludicrous foul) and 12 in the Philli and Atlanta games and all he need do is get his scoring average up around 12 ppg and average 6 assist and play great defense and keep making good passes (he is already doing the last 2) and he will be easily earning the time he is getting to continue to grow.

[zeebneeb]

So being the glutton for punishment that I apparently am, I went back and watched the replay. I then compared it to when Cade was on the floor the previous game, and the difference is night and day.

I am not sure what it is, but just Cades mere presence on the floor made the offense actually work correctly, and the defensive intensity was higher as well.

In a point that cannot be understated, the rebounding difference when Cade is on the floor is utterly stupid. Cade has a natural understanding that getting the defensive rebound is not just to make sure the other team doesn't get an offensive rebound, but that it is the very start of the offense, and he loves to push the ball up the floor, placing the defense off-balance. It makes a huge difference. He also doesn't ball watch when the shot goes up as most gaurds do, looking for the pass from a big, to bring the ball up the floor. HE wants to get it, so he can run up the floor. Its a small thing, that makes a huge difference.

Cade also seems to like to play 4up, which means if he gets the rebound, as he heads up the floor, he likes to have all 4 guys ahead of him, moving, so he can find the open guy. I think this is why he really likes to get that defensive rebound.

What also becomes readily apparent is that when Cade plays, the bench, much like the starters, is a whole unit. What I mean by that is a piece of the bench is not playing against starters, its playing against other bench players and makes a world of difference. (Jackson/Diallo) the rotations are tight, and unified.

Obviously more then 1 freaking game is needed to properly analyze what is happening with/without Cade, but just a few small things I noticed even though he played a tight, rusty, first game jitters, legs not under him, nervous game.

He also had a great laser beam cross court pass to Bey that looked so much like one of Donics passes(I watch every Dallas game)it was eerie.

This game, without Cade, sucked the life out of me watching it, and I feel bad having done so.

[Manocad]

Gonna be a long and bumpy ride, I'm guessing.

[Sort]

You all deserve credit for being faithful. I checked the scores a few times in the night, gave a slight shake of my head, and called it good for my Piston fandom. You will get more of a rise if they do start playing better, but man, it doesn't look good.

[Billl]

Realistically, when Cade is out, we only have 2 other legit NBA starters on the floor - Grant and Bey. Killian and Stewart are both guys we are trying to develop for the future, And then we plug in a 5th "starter" that likely wouldn't even be a rotation player on a good team. Of course it is going to be ugly.

I think we saw how much attention Cade was going to draw though. Things are going to open up considerably for everyone else when he is on the floor. We are still probably going to be a really bad team, but hopefully it won't look like this every night.

[bstein14]

Killian with 1-5 shooting and 4 TO's and just 2 assists... BUT this was probably his best game of the year. Played hard defensively and did really well stepping into the passing lanes to get 5 steals... plus he had a nice charge taken. He still was -21 in 22 minutes and didn't provide much offensively, BUT you have to be excited to see what he did on the defensive side of the ball tonight.

Hmm, Grant was also a -21, and he had 0 steals, only one assist, also 4 turnovers and was only 5-15. He didn't play nearly the D that Killian did, yet you didn't mention him, and he is actually depended on to be one of our main scorers. Why didn't you mention his bad performance, he is a vet, Killian played the the 31st game of his career.

The more I check in to the box, the more I see how strange it is that you seem to do focus on anything you can say bad about Killian, yet leave out gobs if horrible stuff from other players, why?

Looking at the box, did you happen to see that our 2 main centers, Beef Stew and KO together played 39 minutes and 2 sec, and they had a total of THREE REBOUNDS BETWEEN THEM.

Let me repeat that, our two centers that played 39:02 had a grand total of THREE REBOUNDS.

Strange that you would tell us about Killian having a great defensive night, then mentioning he only had 2 assists when if our shooters, the guys who we actually depend on for points, would just shoot a normal percentage he would have had 6 or 7 assist.

And in the box score at the top of this page Grant is the first guy listed, impossible to miss his very poor night and yet skip down to Killian who had a better night than he did, almost like you have an agenda.

Add in Grant, our main power forward with our 2 centers, he had 4 rebounds, so 7 total rebounds out of our 2 centers and main PF and Grant played over 27 minutes.

Grants poor play this season has hurt this team as much or more than Killian has. We Count on Grant to be our main guy, but his shooting woes have not been good. When he pulls out of it, as do the other players, we will see Killian's assists go up to around 6 a game. He already scored 9 (should have been 11 had KO not been called for a ludicrous foul) and 12 in the Philli and Atlanta games and all he need do is get his scoring average up around 12 ppg and average 6 assist and play great defense and keep making good passes (he is already doing the last 2) and he will be easily earning the time he is getting to continue to grow.

I was giving Killian a compliment saying this was the best game he had this season, despite the fact that he made only one shot and turned the ball over too much. I didn't mention Grant because I wasn't talking about Grant, I was talking about Killian.

I think Grant played ok on the defensive end for having to defend KD, but clearly struggled offensively in this one a. His shot clearly wasn't falling but he as proven over the course of his career that he is a capable 3 point shooter so you can't really fault him too much for taking 5, mostly open, 3 point shots. That said, Grant overall has been much worst to start this season than he was to start last season. He's been very poor offensively for a $20+ million player there is no arguing with that.

I know you like to add up the assists Killian should have if every shooter makes all their shots each night. From now on instead of mentioning the 2.8 assists per game he averages I'll just refer to the 7.8 assists per game he SHOULD average if everyone hit their shots.

[Pistonrings]

Hmm, Grant was also a -21, and he had 0 steals, only one assist, also 4 turnovers and was only 5-15. He didn't play nearly the D that Killian did, yet you didn't mention him, and he is actually depended on to be one of our main scorers. Why didn't you mention his bad performance, he is a vet, Killian played the the 31st game of his career.

The more I check in to the box, the more I see how strange it is that you seem to do focus on anything you can say bad about Killian, yet leave out gobs if horrible stuff from other players, why?

Looking at the box, did you happen to see that our 2 main centers, Beef Stew and KO together played 39 minutes and 2 sec, and they had a total of THREE REBOUNDS BETWEEN THEM.

Let me repeat that, our two centers that played 39:02 had a grand total of THREE REBOUNDS.

Strange that you would tell us about Killian having a great defensive night, then mentioning he only had 2 assists when if our shooters, the guys who we actually depend on for points, would just shoot a normal percentage he would have had 6 or 7 assist.

And in the box score at the top of this page Grant is the first guy listed, impossible to miss his very poor night and yet skip down to Killian who had a better night than he did, almost like you have an agenda.

Add in Grant, our main power forward with our 2 centers, he had 4 rebounds, so 7 total rebounds out of our 2 centers and main PF and Grant played over 27 minutes.

Grants poor play this season has hurt this team as much or more than Killian has. We Count on Grant to be our main guy, but his shooting woes have not been good. When he pulls out of it, as do the other players, we will see Killian's assists go up to around 6 a game. He already scored 9 (should have been 11 had KO not been called for a ludicrous foul) and 12 in the Philli and Atlanta games and all he need do is get his scoring average up around 12 ppg and average 6 assist and play great defense and keep making good passes (he is already doing the last 2) and he will be easily earning the time he is getting to continue to grow.

I was giving Killian a compliment saying this was the best game he had this season, despite the fact that he made only one shot and turned the ball over too much. I didn't mention Grant because I wasn't talking about Grant, I was talking about Killian.

I think Grant played ok on the defensive end for having to defend KD, but clearly struggled offensively in this one a. His shot clearly wasn't falling but he as proven over the course of his career that he is a capable 3 point shooter so you can't really fault him too much for taking 5, mostly open, 3 point shots. That said, Grant overall has been much worst to start this season than he was to start last season. He's been very poor offensively for a $20+ million player there is no arguing with that.

I know you like to add up the assists Killian should have if every shooter makes all their shots each night. From now on instead of mentioning the 2.8 assists per game he averages I'll just refer to the 7.8 assists per game he SHOULD average if everyone hit their shots.

I never said he would have 7 assist if the main scorers hit every shot, I said he would have plenty more assists if they would just hit a reasonably normal percentage.

I can appreciate you trying to give Killian some credit but it was obvious you had a desire to cut him down again as well.

Here is the way I see it. Killian doesn't even need to average 12. I said that not thinking about Cade playing. Cade will be scoring and also handling the ball and dishing our assists.

With 3 main scorers, and also KO being one of the bench but many times playing more minutes than Stewart,Killian will be doing just fine at averaging double figures, 10 pints, five assists, and play great D and make good passes.

Another way of putting it is: If he can average 10, 5, 2 or 3 boards, a couple steals per game, he WILL BE DOING ENOUGH TO EARN HIS CURRENT POSITION and the time to get better.

So I'm not saying he won't in the future be better than those numbers, I am saying that those numbers this year will be, imo, enough payment by him to buy his current starting position and 25 mpg in order to keep learning and improving.

He already scored 12 against Atlanta, and what 9 against Philli (should have been 11 if Casey has been smart enough to save his replay and those last 2 would have cut the lead to 3)

He has clearly been improving, you can see it in his body language that he is getting a bit more aggressive.

With Cade on the floor, Grant, Bey, and KO, if Killian just does 10 and 5, great D and good, crisp passes, imo that will be easily enough for him to deserve his time and opportunity to continue to grow. He is inching closer to that. Casey needs to stop the Joseph nonsense and give Killian 25 mpg at least.

Grant is clearly the worse problem now. Grant is shooting like 36 percent for the season. We count on him for points so he has to break out of this slump.

[Billl]

If hayes was anywhere close to 10/5/3, we wouldn't be having this conversation. He's not though. He's at 5/3/3 on 25% shooting. We're only a couple games in, but right now, he's down across the board in everything except steals. That's not what you want to see out of your second year players. The expectation was that he would show some improvement on his 7/5/3 on 36%

[zeebneeb]

If hayes was anywhere close to 10/5/3, we wouldn't be having this conversation. He's not though. He's at 5/3/3 on 25% shooting. We're only a couple games in, but right now, he's down across the board in everything except steals. That's not what you want to see out of your second year players. The expectation was that he would show some improvement on his 7/5/3 on 36%

This is correct. With that said, I want to see him play for 20 games with Cade, to see what happens then. The focus would be 100% shifted to Cade, and not to Killian as the main point of attack.

In just those 18 or so minutes that Cade played, he drew so much gravity from the Magic defenders it was nuts. I believe Cade is a floor raiser. A guy, who when on the court, makes everyone around them better. Lets see what he can do with the current starters.

[whitehops]

So being the glutton for punishment that I apparently am, I went back and watched the replay. I then compared it to when Cade was on the floor the previous game, and the difference is night and day.

thanks for your summary, i wasn't able to watch the orlando game. it supports what i thought would happen though; it shouldn't be a surprise that one game cade played was easily our best offensive game.

and i know cade himself didn't score well but he simply knows how to play. he showed it all through college and you could see glimpses in summer league (which is impressive because it's some of the most unorganized organized basketball you'll see). a lot of players have a "micro" view of the court, and cade is one of those guys who has a "macro" view. guys like lebron, doncic, etc. also have macro views and that's what makes them lead such great offense, because they can see everything going on and make the right basketball play.

it'll be interesting to see how well he can score himself this season, given that teams can devote a ton of attention to stopping him.

[thesack12]

Pistons have 10 holdover players from last year's team. Of those, with the exceptions of Bey and Josh Jackson, it wouldn't be hard to make a case that everybody else has regressed this season. Lee has barely played, so you could give him an exception as well.

So when Cade doesn't play (5 of 6 games so far), basically we've seen a worse version of last year's team, and last year was a bad team that wasn't particularly fun to watch.