2022-23 Regular Season

[JonFromVA]

Anyone else think we should have went after Murray?? Kid is a stud.....

I can understand not selling away our future drafts for him.

I mean we all would like to snag a taller wing that can defend with playmaking skills that can help the offense when defenses overload on Darius, but:

- Unless we're trading Allen, we need a shooter who can also play off Garland;
- Murray is far more than a secondary playmaker, (9.2apg) he and Garland would need to insist they wanted to make it work;
- The Spurs have generally been better with Murray, but not by a lot. His clutch numbers are meh;
- We beat them twice last year (we don't trade for players we beat);
- He's going to want the max, and he's only got one All-Star level season under his belt;
- He's listed at 180lbs even though he's 6'4" ... that's 12lbs lighter than Garland!
- Buyer beware of Spurs players ...
- Injury history.
- The Spurs were willing to let him go.
- KD may have just hit the trade market.

Sexton or LeVert may very well balance all those factors out better and not cost us all those picks.

(edit: added 3 more ...)

I don't think the Cavs could get into a KD trade without giving up Garland/Mobley/Allen which they would be better off in the long term keeping than losing one or more and messing up the rosters construction and road to success. Not to mention other teams would likely beat any offers. I mean if I'm the Pelicans I would try to use this opportunity to S&T Zion and his injury riddled, overweight butt out of New Orleans and get KD in who would give them a great starting 5 of CJ/Herb/Ingram/KD/Jonas.

Also I think with KD on the way out I think Kyrie is probably going to get traded as well which means they will be looking to build around Simmons IMO. If they moved Kyried first, I could see a S&T deal involving Sexton, Okoro/Agbaji, LeVert (probably to a 3rd team), + picks being an interesting package for KD as Sexton/Simmons would be a very good backcourt and actually if they liked Agbaji's 3&D potential they a group of Sexton/Agbaji/Simmons in the 1-3 positions with whoever they get for Kyrie at the 4/5 they could have a pretty good roster like that as well.

Yep, I certainly wasn't suggesting an expiring and a bunch of picks would be enough to trade for KD, but there will always be someone who needs a new home. Whether Murray was our best/only shot to add significant talent to this group without having to break it up is a long ways from being something we can know.

It sure will be interesting to see where this goes, though.

[Revenged25]

I can understand not selling away our future drafts for him.

I mean we all would like to snag a taller wing that can defend with playmaking skills that can help the offense when defenses overload on Darius, but:

- Unless we're trading Allen, we need a shooter who can also play off Garland;
- Murray is far more than a secondary playmaker, (9.2apg) he and Garland would need to insist they wanted to make it work;
- The Spurs have generally been better with Murray, but not by a lot. His clutch numbers are meh;
- We beat them twice last year (we don't trade for players we beat);
- He's going to want the max, and he's only got one All-Star level season under his belt;
- He's listed at 180lbs even though he's 6'4" ... that's 12lbs lighter than Garland!
- Buyer beware of Spurs players ...
- Injury history.
- The Spurs were willing to let him go.
- KD may have just hit the trade market.

Sexton or LeVert may very well balance all those factors out better and not cost us all those picks.

(edit: added 3 more ...)

I don't think the Cavs could get into a KD trade without giving up Garland/Mobley/Allen which they would be better off in the long term keeping than losing one or more and messing up the rosters construction and road to success. Not to mention other teams would likely beat any offers. I mean if I'm the Pelicans I would try to use this opportunity to S&T Zion and his injury riddled, overweight butt out of New Orleans and get KD in who would give them a great starting 5 of CJ/Herb/Ingram/KD/Jonas.

Also I think with KD on the way out I think Kyrie is probably going to get traded as well which means they will be looking to build around Simmons IMO. If they moved Kyried first, I could see a S&T deal involving Sexton, Okoro/Agbaji, LeVert (probably to a 3rd team), + picks being an interesting package for KD as Sexton/Simmons would be a very good backcourt and actually if they liked Agbaji's 3&D potential they a group of Sexton/Agbaji/Simmons in the 1-3 positions with whoever they get for Kyrie at the 4/5 they could have a pretty good roster like that as well.

Yep, I certainly wasn't suggesting an expiring and a bunch of picks would be enough to trade for KD, but there will always be someone who needs a new home. Whether Murray was our best/only shot to add significant talent to this group without having to break it up is a long ways from being something we can know.

It sure will be interesting to see where this goes, though.

I definitely wouldn't be surprised if the Cavs didn't try ot get into that trade and grab a piece or two from it possibly.

[JujitsuFlip]

Surprised they didn't extend Garland at 6:01 PM.

[jbk1234]

Surprised they didn't extend Garland at 6:01 PM.

I'm worried things could get ugly with the Sexton, Klutch, Garland triangle.

[JujitsuFlip]

Surprised they didn't extend Garland at 6:01 PM.

I'm worried things could get ugly with the Sexton, Klutch, Garland triangle.

Me too, hate that they're both with Klutch.

[jbk1234]

Surprised they didn't extend Garland at 6:01 PM.

I'm worried things could get ugly with the Sexton, Klutch, Garland triangle.

Me too, hate that they're both with Klutch.

Things aren't looking good for Sexton. It's basically down to the Spurs.

[JujitsuFlip]

I'm worried things could get ugly with the Sexton, Klutch, Garland triangle.

Me too, hate that they're both with Klutch.

Things aren't looking good for Sexton. It's basically down to the Spurs.

If he just signed his QO and was willing to come off the bench, it would workout for the Cavs. Depending what they wanted to do with Mobley's brother, may only have 1 roster spot left.

[jbk1234]

Me too, hate that they're both with Klutch.

Things aren't looking good for Sexton. It's basically down to the Spurs.

If he just signed his QO and was willing to come off the bench, it would workout for the Cavs. Depending what they wanted to do with Mobley's brother, may only have 1 roster spot left.

I have to image the Cavs last, best offer was at least $15M.

[toooskies]

Not sure how legit, but Rubio for 3/20:

Read on Twitter

?t=T32nAJdnQv13AnNy7ZMECg&s=19

[TheLand13]

Surprised they didn't extend Garland at 6:01 PM.

I'm worried things could get ugly with the Sexton, Klutch, Garland triangle.

There's no way Garland doesn't stay with Cleveland.

With that said, yeah, those two being with klutch does scare me.

Also, that Rubio signing is fantastic and I'm really excited for what's to come with Cleveland.

[JonFromVA]

Things aren't looking good for Sexton. It's basically down to the Spurs.

If he just signed his QO and was willing to come off the bench, it would workout for the Cavs. Depending what they wanted to do with Mobley's brother, may only have 1 roster spot left.

I have to image the Cavs last, best offer was at least $15M.

With the cap increase, the Cavs may be able to up their offer a couple of million, spend their exceptions, and still stay out of the tax.

[TheLand13]

If he just signed his QO and was willing to come off the bench, it would workout for the Cavs. Depending what they wanted to do with Mobley's brother, may only have 1 roster spot left.

I have to image the Cavs last, best offer was at least $15M.

With the cap increase, the Cavs may be able to up their offer a couple of million, spend their exceptions, and still stay out of the tax.

I'm wondering what Sexton's place is on this team now after drafting Ochai and Rubio being signed to a three year deal. I don't really see a viable role for Sexton, Okoro AND Levert. One of those three have to go (although at this point, I would prefer they just get rid of Sexton and Levert and keep Okoro).

[jbk1234]

I have to image the Cavs last, best offer was at least $15M.

With the cap increase, the Cavs may be able to up their offer a couple of million, spend their exceptions, and still stay out of the tax.

I'm wondering what Sexton's place is on this team now after drafting Ochai and Rubio being signed to a three year deal. I don't really see a viable role for Sexton, Okoro AND Levert. One of those three have to go (although at this point, I would prefer they just get rid of Sexton and Levert and keep Okoro).

Ricky won't be able to play for the first 2/3 of the season. Sexton will be able to showcase what he can do as the sixth man in that time frame. There's a chance to bring him back, have him rehab his value before Ricky returns, and maybe a better match can be found at the deadline. Maybe he signs a sixth man deal, plays really well as the primary scorer off the bench, and the Cavs keep him.

[toooskies]

With the cap increase, the Cavs may be able to up their offer a couple of million, spend their exceptions, and still stay out of the tax.

I'm wondering what Sexton's place is on this team now after drafting Ochai and Rubio being signed to a three year deal. I don't really see a viable role for Sexton, Okoro AND Levert. One of those three have to go (although at this point, I would prefer they just get rid of Sexton and Levert and keep Okoro).

Ricky won't be able to play for the first 2/3 of the season. Sexton will be able to showcase what he can do as the sixth man in that time frame. There's a chance to bring him back, have him rehab his value before Ricky returns, and maybe a better match can be found at the deadline. Maybe he signs a sixth man deal, plays really well as the primary scorer off the bench, and the Cavs keep him.

Starting Sexton is still very much on the table if we bring Sexton back. If we're treating him as a bench guy we may as well trade him to Dallas now, no team is going to be as desperate and willing to pay for him as they probably are.

We shifted to tall-ball last year because we ostensibly had 4 viable big men for only two spots on the court-- specifically three players whose best position is PF. This year, the glut is worse at SG than it was at PF last year, with four guys who should be playing SG. I certainly wouldn't rule out a trade to balance the roster, but seeing tall-ball go away and putting one of Agbaji/Okoro/LeVert at the starting 3 is certainly on the table. We might platoon the starting 3 depending on who we're playing.

Playing LeVert at the backup 3 in Cedi's role is also a pretty strong option, especially if Love/Markkanen/Agbaji are getting minutes with the second unit and we don't need Cedi's shooting as much.

[jbk1234]

I'm wondering what Sexton's place is on this team now after drafting Ochai and Rubio being signed to a three year deal. I don't really see a viable role for Sexton, Okoro AND Levert. One of those three have to go (although at this point, I would prefer they just get rid of Sexton and Levert and keep Okoro).

Ricky won't be able to play for the first 2/3 of the season. Sexton will be able to showcase what he can do as the sixth man in that time frame. There's a chance to bring him back, have him rehab his value before Ricky returns, and maybe a better match can be found at the deadline. Maybe he signs a sixth man deal, plays really well as the primary scorer off the bench, and the Cavs keep him.

Starting Sexton is still very much on the table if we bring Sexton back. If we're treating him as a bench guy we may as well trade him to Dallas now, no team is going to be as desperate and willing to pay for him as they probably are.

We shifted to tall-ball last year because we ostensibly had 4 viable big men for only two spots on the court-- specifically three players whose best position is PF. This year, the glut is worse at SG than it was at PF last year, with four guys who should be playing SG. I certainly wouldn't rule out a trade to balance the roster, but seeing tall-ball go away and putting one of Agbaji/Okoro/LeVert at the starting 3 is certainly on the table. We might platoon the starting 3 depending on who we're playing.

Playing LeVert at the backup 3 in Cedi's role is also a pretty strong option, especially if Love/Markkanen/Agbaji are getting minutes with the second unit and we don't need Cedi's shooting as much.

I sincerely hope (and suspect tbh) the Cavs front office disagrees. Sexton should see as few minutes on the floor with both Allen and Mobley as possible unless or until he's better able to play within an organized offensive. Starting, and then demoting him, could have serious repercussions, and given the fact that JBB had already started benching him to close out game before he got injured, I suspect a demotion would be almost inevitable. The idea that you would pull Lauri's shooting out of the starting unit and swap him with Okoro/LeVert, so you can force Sexton into the starting unit, seems completely bonkers to me. The spacing would be irreparable and you would handicap two, if not all three, of your best players.

[ijspeelman]

Starting Sexton is still very much on the table if we bring Sexton back. If we're treating him as a bench guy we may as well trade him to Dallas now, no team is going to be as desperate and willing to pay for him as they probably are.

We shifted to tall-ball last year because we ostensibly had 4 viable big men for only two spots on the court-- specifically three players whose best position is PF. This year, the glut is worse at SG than it was at PF last year, with four guys who should be playing SG. I certainly wouldn't rule out a trade to balance the roster, but seeing tall-ball go away and putting one of Agbaji/Okoro/LeVert at the starting 3 is certainly on the table. We might platoon the starting 3 depending on who we're playing.

Playing LeVert at the backup 3 in Cedi's role is also a pretty strong option, especially if Love/Markkanen/Agbaji are getting minutes with the second unit and we don't need Cedi's shooting as much.

I'll be honest... the idea of getting DFS, Bullock, or Kleber in a trade from the Mavs has me salivating. Kleber would fit into our weird 3 very tall player line-ups, but he's a great help defender and can fend for himself one-on-one against most smaller players.

[TheLand13]

I'm wondering what Sexton's place is on this team now after drafting Ochai and Rubio being signed to a three year deal. I don't really see a viable role for Sexton, Okoro AND Levert. One of those three have to go (although at this point, I would prefer they just get rid of Sexton and Levert and keep Okoro).

Ricky won't be able to play for the first 2/3 of the season. Sexton will be able to showcase what he can do as the sixth man in that time frame. There's a chance to bring him back, have him rehab his value before Ricky returns, and maybe a better match can be found at the deadline. Maybe he signs a sixth man deal, plays really well as the primary scorer off the bench, and the Cavs keep him.

Starting Sexton is still very much on the table if we bring Sexton back. If we're treating him as a bench guy we may as well trade him to Dallas now, no team is going to be as desperate and willing to pay for him as they probably are.

We shifted to tall-ball last year because we ostensibly had 4 viable big men for only two spots on the court-- specifically three players whose best position is PF. This year, the glut is worse at SG than it was at PF last year, with four guys who should be playing SG. I certainly wouldn't rule out a trade to balance the roster, but seeing tall-ball go away and putting one of Agbaji/Okoro/LeVert at the starting 3 is certainly on the table. We might platoon the starting 3 depending on who we're playing.

Playing LeVert at the backup 3 in Cedi's role is also a pretty strong option, especially if Love/Markkanen/Agbaji are getting minutes with the second unit and we don't need Cedi's shooting as much.

Sexton should not be starting under any circumstances, especially now that we have Agbaji. He should be the starting two guard while Lauri remains in the starting lineup. If we end up in a situation where Sexton walks and we get nothing in return, so be it. I would much rather have that happen than sign him to a long term deal. Sexton is not instrumental to our success, and right now, we should be doing everything in our power to rid ourselves of him.

[Harper4Ferry?]

I'm fine with keeping sexton with the understanding that he'll be a 6th man and we will be willing to facilitate a move for him when Rubio comes back. If the Lakers are sub .500 around the trade deadline, we'll need some trade fodder to bring back LeBron. Or whomever else may become available.

I am pretty excited for the eventual Rubio/Love bench pairing again. That was fun as heck to watch.

[JonFromVA]

lol, I bet there's someone in the Cavs organization with each of these viewpoints on what to do with Collin, but IMO I suspect what they most want to do is retain asset value.

Collin was a 24ppg scorer that's currently worth very little and that's a problem for him and the Cavs.

Even to prove he's worth $25M/year to another team, he may feel he has to start and that could very well be a sticking point for the Cavs and their over-abundance of SG sized SG's.

Worth noting that DG didn't sign a max extension at midnight, and presumably Altman, Gansey, and JBB were camping on his doorstep to make the offer when free-agency opened. Given he now shares an agent with Collin, who knows what if any manipulations are happening.

Anyway, the needle to thread here is to somehow keep everyone happy, let them play enough to show their value, and eventually sort what needs to be sorted out via trades; but getting from here to there could be a very rocky road.

[toooskies]

Ricky won't be able to play for the first 2/3 of the season. Sexton will be able to showcase what he can do as the sixth man in that time frame. There's a chance to bring him back, have him rehab his value before Ricky returns, and maybe a better match can be found at the deadline. Maybe he signs a sixth man deal, plays really well as the primary scorer off the bench, and the Cavs keep him.

Starting Sexton is still very much on the table if we bring Sexton back. If we're treating him as a bench guy we may as well trade him to Dallas now, no team is going to be as desperate and willing to pay for him as they probably are.

We shifted to tall-ball last year because we ostensibly had 4 viable big men for only two spots on the court-- specifically three players whose best position is PF. This year, the glut is worse at SG than it was at PF last year, with four guys who should be playing SG. I certainly wouldn't rule out a trade to balance the roster, but seeing tall-ball go away and putting one of Agbaji/Okoro/LeVert at the starting 3 is certainly on the table. We might platoon the starting 3 depending on who we're playing.

Playing LeVert at the backup 3 in Cedi's role is also a pretty strong option, especially if Love/Markkanen/Agbaji are getting minutes with the second unit and we don't need Cedi's shooting as much.

I sincerely hope (and suspect tbh) the Cavs front office disagrees. Sexton should see as few minutes on the floor with both Allen and Mobley as possible unless or until he's better able to play within an organized offensive. Starting, and then demoting him, could have serious repercussions, and given the fact that JBB had already started benching him to close out game before he got injured, I suspect a demotion would be almost inevitable. The idea that you would pull Lauri's shooting out of the starting unit and swap him with Okoro/LeVert, so you can force Sexton into the starting unit, seems completely bonkers to me. The spacing would be irreparable and you would handicap two, if not all three, of your best players.

I would say that it's likely that the Cavs' front office is divided on the issue of what role Sexton should have (thus giving us a disproportionate number of "is he an NBA player"/"is he an NBA starter"/"he almost got benched" stories over the years for a young guy on a rebuilding team) but the decision makers have only put him in the starting role since a few weeks into his career. We don't talk about inevitable benching of LaMelo Ball just because he sometimes got pulled at the end of games last year (including against us). JBB was just working to establish with Rubio that he was viewed as sort of the 6th starter. JBB wanted to keep Sexton out there enough that he was willing to try Garland/Sexton/Rubio lineups to close games.

Ultimately what I'd say is that right now Sexton has the best chance of being the answer at the 2 on this roster long-term if Markkanen stays at the 3 because we need a second playmaker. (I know you like LeVert more in that role, and that's fine-- other than his height, though, he shares many of Sexton's weaknesses.) And even if we shift Markkanen to the backup 4 if/when Love departs, we don't have any idea who our 3 is going to be when that happens, so there's no point in planning around that hypothetical player's skillset.