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Drakeem wrote:

BigGargamel wrote:

Drakeem wrote:Melo was a bit of a hard personality to deal with but weirdos have turned his entire legacy into a slightly better JR Smith. He's one of the greatest scorers of all time, and whenever he had a solid roster, he delivered results. He brought Denver into the playoff every single season, and helped make NY relevant again, despite the roster falling off a cliff quickly. The idea of anything lower than Wade/Bron level (Wade was arguably a top 3 player in his prime) being a failure is absurd.

This board is so silly sometimes. People let their personal opinions of how a player is as a person define the player he was. It's so weird. A player can be a moron off the court but still great on it. Melo was an absolutely fantastic offensive player during the era of isolation offense. The fact that his career turned out the way it did doesn't take away from that, but people are discrediting his on the court history because he's an idiot in interviews 15 years later. He's closer to the Hall of Fame than a "decent starter". I mean, WTF?

The man was named a top 75 player of all time, has had success in every level of the game, a top 7 scorer ever, 10 all star games, 6 All-NBA teams, and I'm supposed to be okay with some guy calling him a decent starter. I'm supposed to believe Nene was the bigger impact player.

The lack of nuance in a lot of critique in basketball today sucks. He was a heavy ISO player in a heavy ISO league, and like you said, was great at it. Even the idea that he wasn't a "winner" is insane to me considering the fact that he was consistently in the playoffs for so long when he was younger, despite some of the rosters being subpar.

zero rings wrote:

Drakeem wrote:

BigGargamel wrote:
This board is so silly sometimes. People let their personal opinions of how a player is as a person define the player he was. It's so weird. A player can be a moron off the court but still great on it. Melo was an absolutely fantastic offensive player during the era of isolation offense. The fact that his career turned out the way it did doesn't take away from that, but people are discrediting his on the court history because he's an idiot in interviews 15 years later. He's closer to the Hall of Fame than a "decent starter". I mean, WTF?

The man was named a top 75 player of all time, has had success in every level of the game, a top 7 scorer ever, 10 all star games, 6 All-NBA teams, and I'm supposed to be okay with some guy calling him a decent starter. I'm supposed to believe Nene was the bigger impact player.

The lack of nuance in a lot of critique in basketball today sucks. He was a heavy ISO player in a heavy ISO league, and like you said, was great at it. Even the idea that he wasn't a "winner" is insane to me considering the fact that he was consistently in the playoffs for so long when he was younger, despite some of the rosters being subpar.

What’s so nuanced about rattling off his All-Star selections and career point totals?

People have soured on Carmelo’s career for the same reason they’ve soured on guys like Zach Lavine and Bradley Beal. Scoring a bunch of points on mid efficiency with no defense just isn’t that valuable to winning. People might not have known that in 2005, but they do now. There’s no putting the toothpaste back in the tube.

Fadeaway_Jumper wrote:Carmelo never played on a super team, so it’s not fair to judge his accomplishments to the other stars he was drafted with

uncleduck13 wrote:

SpreeChokeJob wrote:I’ll say he was a great basketball politician. He held NY Knicks hostage for a time until he outlived his usefulness.

Guy was smack dead in his prime and missed the playoffs 4 consecutive seasons in New York … Doesn’t get enough backlash for this.

Handlez wrote:

uncleduck13 wrote:

SpreeChokeJob wrote:I’ll say he was a great basketball politician. He held NY Knicks hostage for a time until he outlived his usefulness.

Guy was smack dead in his prime and missed the playoffs 4 consecutive seasons in New York … Doesn’t get enough backlash for this.

Obviously not a good look, but who were his teammates?

uncleduck13 wrote:Carmelo Anthony is wildly overrated. If he wasn’t a part of the same draft class as LeBron & D-Wade , he’d be viewed on a level similar to Joe Johnson. He had no business making the top 75. His inclusion was pure politics. Dwight Howard is/was levels above Melo. Tracy McGrady, as well. Melo wasn’t GREAT at anything! Not even scoring. Wasn’t efficient. Couldn’t get his within the flow of an offense. And never once did he average 30. IMO, Gilbert Arenas was a better scorer (peak for peak). Nothing about his NBA career was memorable. No chips, no MVPs, no All-NBA first teams. He did nothing special in Denver or New York. Chauncey Billups was the best and most important player on that WCF team. And Linsanity was the most memorable thing to happen during his tenure with the Knicks. The fact Melo couldn’t take his game to the next level , under an offensive friendly coach like D’Antoni, says a lot. Amare pre-Melo > Melo at any point post-trade. I’ve said for well over a decade that Deron Williams was the move to make at the time. A tandem of D-Will + Amare (under MDA) would’ve generated way more success and overall entertainment for Knicks fans. There are probably over 100 players in league history that peaked higher than Melo. And 25 currently playing, who are already better than he’s ever been. Jalen Brunson being one of them. Call me a hater or whatever, but dude just wasn’t like that. He wasn’t a scrub by any means. He just doesn’t deserve this superstar “All-Time Great Scorer” reputation. He was a zero impact player. His ties to Bron, Wade, and CP3 are what keeps him relevant. If he wasn’t for the ‘culture’ if he wasn’t apart of the ‘brotherhood’ he would simply be forgotten.

uncleduck13 wrote:

SpreeChokeJob wrote:I’ll say he was a great basketball politician. He held NY Knicks hostage for a time until he outlived his usefulness.

Guy was smack dead in his prime and missed the playoffs 4 consecutive seasons in New York … Doesn’t get enough backlash for this.

Ambrose wrote:Melo came around at the right time. If he was drafted more recently, he would not be remembered fondly, regardless of the media spin. Great overall player, but not a real #1 guy, and certainly not a winner.

DimesandKnicks wrote:

uncleduck13 wrote:

SpreeChokeJob wrote:I’ll say he was a great basketball politician. He held NY Knicks hostage for a time until he outlived his usefulness.

Guy was smack dead in his prime and missed the playoffs 4 consecutive seasons in New York … Doesn’t get enough backlash for this.

Yea. That was when Phil Jackson became the GM and pretty much tore a 2 seed in the east into a lottery team single handily.

uncleduck13 wrote:

Optms wrote:

uncleduck13 wrote:
He was better at jacking up shots , not being clutch and making plays for teammates

Jacking up shots and making more shots. You think if Joe (or any player for that matter) was jacking up more shots = maintaining the same efficiency? It doesn't work that way.

Melo was a legit franchise player, even if he could only take the Nuggets to the WCF, and nothing else. He did that in a loaded West btw. No NBA team was building around Joe, not then and not presently.

Brother, Joe Johnson as the number one in a D’Antoni offense might actually average 30 (unlike Melo) along with 7-8 assists. Dude was way better than you remember. His Hawks teams were truly awful for the most part. Him taking that Celtics team to 7 games might be a greater accomplishment than Melo getting to a WCF under the LEADERSHIP of Chauncey Billups.

uncleduck13 wrote:

Scalabrine wrote:

uncleduck13 wrote:
Guy was smack dead in his prime and missed the playoffs 4 consecutive seasons in New York … Doesn’t get enough backlash for this.

Those teams were really really bad around him. JR Smith was the second best player on most of those teams. Pretty sure D-Wade was 26 when the Heat won 15 games.

I think part of the reason the team was so bad was because of their lack of flexibility after Melo forced the trade instead of waiting to Free Agency, but that's another story.

Not a fair comparison cuz Wade was dealing with injuries, Shaq was traded, Spo’s first year as a coach. Etc. I remember it vividly. Not to mention, that was only a one year deal. The following two seasons, prior to Bron’s arrival, Wade led equally terrible rosters to high 40 win records + the playoffs.

Being in your prime and allowing your team to miss the playoffs for 4 consecutive years, in a conference where it only took like 37 wins just to make the playoffs, is embarrassing no matter how you slice it. I think one of those years Melo had a supporting cast of D-Rose, Joakim, and Porzingis. Just uncalled for.

Fadeaway_Jumper wrote:Carmelo never played on a super team, so it’s not fair to judge his accomplishments to the other stars he was drafted with

uncleduck13 wrote:

Scalabrine wrote:

uncleduck13 wrote:
You got me. Overall point still remains.

Nitpicking and all, I don't think Wade gets that Knick team to the playoffs either. Melo was 32 at the point when Rose and Noah joined the team and they were absolutely terrible. Go ahead and look at those teams again.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2016.html

All time laughably bad, and Melo was past his prime.

You’re probably right. Maybe I underestimated how bad the teams were. I just have a hard time believing that Wade fails to get them to the post season at least ONCE in those 4 years. No matter the roster construction. That’s how much I believe in his individual ability.

My question is how did things fall apart so abruptly after the 12-13 season? I know Kidd retired, Sheed left, etc. Did they really make that much of a difference? Or was it injuries ?

SpreeChokeJob wrote:

Handlez wrote:

uncleduck13 wrote:
Guy was smack dead in his prime and missed the playoffs 4 consecutive seasons in New York … Doesn’t get enough backlash for this.

Obviously not a good look, but who were his teammates?

It was a weak eastern conference. If he was a legit star, he could have dragged them to more playoffs. He wasn’t that good. He was a volume shooter, not a great playmaker, not a great defender.

Linsanity took a bunch of scrubs to the playoffs that year. Melo should thank him for that, because they were on their way out, otherwise he would have had one less year playoffs on his resume.

Iwasawitness wrote:

Fadeaway_Jumper wrote:Carmelo never played on a super team, so it’s not fair to judge his accomplishments to the other stars he was drafted with

First off, yeah he technically did in OKC.

Second, as we’ve seen over the past few years, superteams are not a guaranteed path to success and are in fact usually a poor direction to go. People tend to forget that LeBron still had to put in all time great performances just to win with his, and he still got a title without a super team so this excuse doesn’t cut it. Fact is, Melo had some really good teams surrounding him in Denver and NY. His style of play however wasn’t compatible with winning. You could have put him on a super team in his prime and honestly, I still don’t see him winning.

3toheadmelo wrote:

SpreeChokeJob wrote:

Handlez wrote:
Obviously not a good look, but who were his teammates?

It was a weak eastern conference. If he was a legit star, he could have dragged them to more playoffs. He wasn’t that good. He was a volume shooter, not a great playmaker, not a great defender.

Linsanity took a bunch of scrubs to the playoffs that year. Melo should thank him for that, because they were on their way out, otherwise he would have had one less year playoffs on his resume.

spoken like someone who didnt watch games that year. linsanity didnt take a bunch of scrubs to the playoffs. linsanity was short lived and it died when he got exposed by the heat. melo went on an insane run in april to get us to the playoffs.

now about his team mates, melo for sure was a flawed player and could've done more all around, but which player is going to take this team to the playoffs besides lebron?

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