Lowest possible ranking for Lebron

[FarBeyondDriven]

Anyone arguing anyone but MJ over him is just a hater lol

I could’ve seen Kareem over him until he broke the scoring record, but anything lower than 2nd is either trolling or stupidity.

How does Kareem not have an argumemt over Jordan and James?

centers really shouldn't be in the running imo. When we're talking about basketball skills none of them (the old-timers) can really dribble or shoot at a high level, at least in comparison to every other NBA position. They succeed mostly based on having a physical and athletic advantage. I just can't rank guys so limited skills wise ahead of wings

[basketballto]

Because of the ped enhancement and the reference assist (7 - 10 points extra a game, 3/4 fouls, 2/3 assists) you could put him anywhere from 2 to not eligible. Bonds isn't in the HOF and he put up better number then Lebron. Depends on your standards.

[baldur]

3.

Only Jordan and kareem.

[TheGOATRises007]

Anyone arguing anyone but MJ over him is just a hater lol

I could’ve seen Kareem over him until he broke the scoring record, but anything lower than 2nd is either trolling or stupidity.

How does Kareem not have an argumemt over Jordan and James?

centers really shouldn't be in the running imo. When we're talking about basketball skills none of them (the old-timers) can really dribble or shoot at a high level, at least in comparison to every other NBA position. They succeed mostly based on having a physical and athletic advantage. I just can't rank guys so limited skills wise ahead of wings

Bold to claim centers have less skill, only purely because of ball handling.

[TheGOATRises007]

3.

Jordan and Kareem. I don't think Russell has a good argument like I used to.

[Raps in 4]

#2, which is also his highest possible ranking.

[70sFan]

3.

Jordan and Kareem. I don't think Russell has a good argument like I used to.

Why don't you think so? Russell has the easiest, simplest case for the GOAT player in the league history.

[jk31]

I don't like LeBron at all, but anyone that has him below #2 is just insane. It's either him or MJ for #1, noone else.

[bledredwine]

The fascinating part of the GOAT debate is that there are so many angles you must analyze from.
For me, the most important are 1. Overall dominance/impact and 2. Accolades, though longevity is certainly important to a degree. I'll include 3. Longevity, since a player like Bird would be way higher on my list if only he had a longer career (he's still my 3rd peak after Jordan/Wilt).

When you balance Lebron's longevity and accolades, it's really hard to rank him outside of the top 5.

That said, there are quite a few players that I would take on my team to win it all in one given year if I was given a squad at random (dominance when both sides of the court). This implies ceiling raisers, not someone to take a garbage team to a competitive team- an important distinction. These players can typically play very effectively off ball aka don't need to run point.

These players are;

Jordan
Wilt
Bird
Shaq
Hakeem
Kareem
Jokic as well (but he's still fairly new)

However, when you add accolades in and talk strictly career achievements, there are those players who's career is just hard to surpass.

Jordan
Kareem
Russell all clearly up top
Lebron
Magic
Kobe
Duncan
Bird (would be higher if not for longevity)


For longevity, you have these players
Kareem
Lebron
Malone
Wilt

etc etc

So, the lowest you can rank Lebron really depends on whatever angle one prioritizes. According to these lists, one can't reasonably rank him below 7 or 8, unless they use the super teaming and taking games off to support their argument for both accolades and longevity. Though those are good points, that's a stretch.

Keep in mind that within the realm of dominance, it's just hard to factor in his stats- you simply can't compare his to prior eras and it's hard to compare them to the era now since it's gotten continually inflated starting the 00s and rising quickly since.

[Marrrcuss]

Anyone arguing anyone but MJ over him is just a hater lol

I could’ve seen Kareem over him until he broke the scoring record, but anything lower than 2nd is either trolling or stupidity.

I have Kareem and Wilt as 1a and 1b. I know Im higher on Wilt than many but the excuses for all of his records get tiring.

I guess I am a lebron hater....or stupid

[FreeBird23]

I have :
MJ of course
KAJ
Bird
Russell
Duncan
Shaq
Magic

Over him.

[bstein14]

Lol what? Based off what exactly? His peak prime is easily GOAT tier by all metrics.

You could make a pretty strong argument that over the past 4 years Jokic has been better than any four year stretch from LeBron. You could make a similarly strong argument that Giannis has had a higher peak going back to 2018 (his first MVP season).

Jokic I can understand, but then I could argue his last 4 years peaked as high as any body ever.

Giannis not a chance tho. I think LeBron is so much better and so much more versatile offensively and not really convinced there's a big gap defensively. That stretch you mentioned has Giannis getting gameplanned for and eliminated 2 years in a row exposing his flaws. Even his 1 season peak when he won the title I wouldn't take over Lebrons peak

Giannis is one 6 straight seasons of 29.0+ PER I'm not sure anyone has ever done that before. LeBron has only had 3 in a row.

I guess part of the this argument would be what you consider LeBron's prime. I think many look at his four years in Miami (age 26-29 with four straight finals and two championships) but the reality is he often times deferred to D Wade in the biggest moments during those years its hard to look at him as the best of the best ever in those years when he was on a stacked team that he didn't really have to carry the same way so its like trying to say Curry is the best player in the entire league in 2017 and 2018 but often times he deferred to KD in those championships if you're trying to be compared to the best of the best ever you're leading the team in crunch time when it matters most.

[YogurtProducer]

My discussion is much more interesting and relevant than his is. Who wants to reply to some bait post about lowest all time ranking when it’s clear he’s in the highest upper tier.

There’s basketball on today, tomorrow, an entire playoffs still to come! Why doesn’t anyone want to talk about that?

Create your own thread then.

Instead of jumping into another thread and changing it how you want it.

How has that flown right over your head.

Where does the thread title say anything about all time ranking?

You would have to read the OP to see it - which you obviously did not do

[Roco14]

There is no valid argument for anyone except Jordan to be placed above him.

[70sFan]

There is no valid argument for anyone except Jordan to be placed above him.

The Russell argument is very easy, like the most obvious one ever.

[70sFan]

I don't like LeBron at all, but anyone that has him below #2 is just insane. It's either him or MJ for #1, noone else.

Yeah, it's insane to have Kareem or Russell above these two, you must be mad to do that...

[art_tatum]

There is no valid argument for anyone except Jordan to be placed above him.

Russell the straight dominance for a decade + # rings and the Celtics best player
Kaj just as long I'm counting numbers and longevity + more rings and mvps
Are clearly valid.


Then the ones that may be valid but I put below Lebron ( would entertain someone's argument):

Wilt- better stats than mr. Lebron Check my stats James. Way more single handed dominance. Too bad he ran into the Celtics and others
bird and magic similar range in mvps and chips but they revived the league culturally saved it in the 80s, all on one team.

Duncan 5 chips as the system and stayed in one franchise for 2 decades of dominance
Shaq arguably more dominant stretch than Lebron in his prime.
Kobe 5 chips stayed on 1 team through it all, might be a bigger name than Lebron.
Curry changed the game all on one team, and is as much his era as it was lebrons era, especially 2015-2022. His impact imo will age well with time.

Now for me I only truly can be swayed by jordan kaj and Russell. Not so much The others, but I would entertain it.

For Lebron, I don't see his career path as someone I want to be the goat of the nba. Changing teams to form all star studded teams when things looked bad. He has every right but not the goat look I would like to have represent the nba.
Jordan also had a 2 yr stretch where he quit bc of his fathers death and gambling. Plus the wizards years those I put against him too.

[imDatknicksTape]

His Shortcomings in 2011 is no longer a factor anymore. He has proven to be the best since then and has erased those shortcomings with 4 rings.He is STILL a top 5-10 in the league.

However, Jordan was too perfect. Therefore, #1 Jordan, #2 Lbj, #3, KAJ

[Roco14]

I don't like LeBron at all, but anyone that has him below #2 is just insane. It's either him or MJ for #1, noone else.

Yeah, it's insane to have Kareem or Russell above these two, you must be mad to do that...

Do you think that if you somehow magically teleported a prime LeBron James (2012-2019) back to the era in which Russell played in, he would dominate any LESS than Russell?

I'm no LBJ fan (in fact I actively root against him) but I also understand how much the game and its players have evolved in decades. Players have gotten smarter. More explosive, more skilled. It's silly to say otherwise.

And this doesn't just apply to Lebron. Steph and Jokic would also look like demi-gods if they somehow teleported to the 60's with their current day abilities. Lebron just sticks out because he has been the best of the best over the last 15 years or so.

[nikster]

You could make a pretty strong argument that over the past 4 years Jokic has been better than any four year stretch from LeBron. You could make a similarly strong argument that Giannis has had a higher peak going back to 2018 (his first MVP season).

Jokic I can understand, but then I could argue his last 4 years peaked as high as any body ever.

Giannis not a chance tho. I think LeBron is so much better and so much more versatile offensively and not really convinced there's a big gap defensively. That stretch you mentioned has Giannis getting gameplanned for and eliminated 2 years in a row exposing his flaws. Even his 1 season peak when he won the title I wouldn't take over Lebrons peak

Giannis is one 6 straight seasons of 29.0+ PER I'm not sure anyone has ever done that before. LeBron has only had 3 in a row.

I guess part of the this argument would be what you consider LeBron's prime. I think many look at his four years in Miami (age 26-29 with four straight finals and two championships) but the reality is he often times deferred to D Wade in the biggest moments during those years its hard to look at him as the best of the best ever in those years when he was on a stacked team that he didn't really have to carry the same way so its like trying to say Curry is the best player in the entire league in 2017 and 2018 but often times he deferred to KD in those championships if you're trying to be compared to the best of the best ever you're leading the team in crunch time when it matters most.

Outside of 2011 Lebron did not defer. In 2012 Bosh missed a significant chunk of the playoffs and afterwards Wade was not the same. He carried a large load in both those titles and in the 2014 run. I'd pick any 4 year period of Lebron from 2012 to 2020 to Giannis best 4 year peroid.