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Colbinii wrote:
I consider Dejounte, Quickley, Bane, OG, Claxton and Porzingis significantly better players than Bridges.

I also think teams who are in win-now mode and don't have other options [Middleton, MPJ, Herro] needed to secure their player.

I find guys like Vassell, Herro and Simons young enough to have some higher end outcomes and ceilings compared to Bridges.

Tobias, Barrett, Cam and Grant aren't exactly good contracts. The thing is, all are comparable players to Bridges but have no baggage, in fact the opposite is true for someone like Tobias Harris.

At the end of the day Charlotte decided that paying Bridges was worthwhile to them, let's see how it pans out.

You're missing the point. All those guys would be considered non-difference makers too if they were 2nd options or on the Hornets. We literally saw it with Wizards, nobody would be saying wow Wizards did good locking up KP.

It basically boils down to the fact he is on Charlotte. Because if we had given Bane the Max, OG over 40 million, Quickley 35 million... then everyone would hate the deal too because the argument would be they don't make us better.

Dejounte as the 2nd best player on the Hornets isn't doing anything Bridges isn't, same with Herro or Simons.

Where Charlotte wins the deal is if LaMelo and Miller ascend to a real 1-2 punch, we start winning until then it is easy to point to every move we make as a non-difference maker.

JMAC3 wrote:

Colbinii wrote:
I consider Dejounte, Quickley, Bane, OG, Claxton and Porzingis significantly better players than Bridges.

I also think teams who are in win-now mode and don't have other options [Middleton, MPJ, Herro] needed to secure their player.

I find guys like Vassell, Herro and Simons young enough to have some higher end outcomes and ceilings compared to Bridges.

Tobias, Barrett, Cam and Grant aren't exactly good contracts. The thing is, all are comparable players to Bridges but have no baggage, in fact the opposite is true for someone like Tobias Harris.

At the end of the day Charlotte decided that paying Bridges was worthwhile to them, let's see how it pans out.

You're missing the point. All those guys would be considered non-difference makers too if they were 2nd options or on the Hornets. We literally saw it with Wizards, nobody would be saying wow Wizards did good locking up KP.

Right...Porzingis was downright bad and injured with Dallas. He played great with Washington and then people's view change.

We are allowed to change our view on Bridges if he:

1) Doesn't beat the **** out of his partner in the future
2) Plays better than he ever has on the court

It basically boils down to the fact he is on Charlotte. Because if we had given Bane the Max, OG over 40 million, Quickley 35 million... then everyone would hate the deal too because the argument would be they don't make us better.

Well I love the Quickley deal because I am a Quickley truther.

RE Bane and OG: Those are two key players on title contenders. Different thing when comparing title contenders holding their core together versus Charlotte and their current time table, right?

Also, both Bane and OG have proven to be better players than Bridges without off-court drama.

Dejounte as the 2nd best player on the Hornets isn't doing anything Bridges isn't, same with Herro or Simons.

We can agree to disagree with Dejounte, who is vastly underpaid.

But like I said, Herro and Simons were significantly younger when they signed their contracts. They are still younger and have room to grow, improve and get significantly better. But, the point here, which you glossed over, is they were signed with tons of potential.

Colbinii wrote:
Right...Porzingis was downright bad and injured with Dallas. He played great with Washington and then people's view change.

We are allowed to change our view on Bridges if he:

1) Doesn't beat the **** out of his partner in the future
2) Plays better than he ever has on the court

It basically boils down to the fact he is on Charlotte. Because if we had given Bane the Max, OG over 40 million, Quickley 35 million... then everyone would hate the deal too because the argument would be they don't make us better.

Well I love the Quickley deal because I am a Quickley truther.

RE Bane and OG: Those are two key players on title contenders. Different thing when comparing title contenders holding their core together versus Charlotte and their current time table, right?

Also, both Bane and OG have proven to be better players than Bridges without off-court drama.

Dejounte as the 2nd best player on the Hornets isn't doing anything Bridges isn't, same with Herro or Simons.

We can agree to disagree with Dejounte, who is vastly underpaid.

But like I said, Herro and Simons were significantly younger when they signed their contracts. They are still younger and have room to grow, improve and get significantly better. But, the point here, which you glossed over, is they were signed with tons of potential.

Lol you literally just confirmed what I said. Bane and OG are on title contenders so their contracts are viewed differently... ala Bridges being on a bad team is factoring into your decision. Just like if Charlotte paid OG it would be a bad decision since we aren't a contender.

and yes everyone loved Porzingis on the Wizards, which is why they got a 2nd round pick and Tyus Jones for him. League was really valuing him lol

JMAC3 wrote:The Mavs literally gave Kyrie 3/120 when nobody else was even bidding, should they have only given 3/75 because nobody else could beat it? There were people saying that when he signed.


The reactions are like we just gave him 40+ a year and is paid as a top 30 guy and the Franchise will never recover.

I think people thinking Dallas was taking a big risk were absolutely right to think so. Sure last season worked out great(once he got healthy), but the year before Dallas was 5th when they added him and didn't make the play-in. And of course all the risk of him asking out again or not playing for a variety reasons were very real even if so far they haven't happened. So yeah some less than positive takes when he signed seem fine to me.

And then the hyperbole sucks. And that's the issue itt. The people expressing concern are mostly taking very measured approaches. I'm certainly not exaggerating anything like what you are trying to accuse. If you want to deal in reality, we can debate. But I don't assign you stupid positions to have to defend. I'd appreciate the same.

JMAC3 wrote:

Colbinii wrote:
I consider Dejounte, Quickley, Bane, OG, Claxton and Porzingis significantly better players than Bridges.

I also think teams who are in win-now mode and don't have other options [Middleton, MPJ, Herro] needed to secure their player.

I find guys like Vassell, Herro and Simons young enough to have some higher end outcomes and ceilings compared to Bridges.

Tobias, Barrett, Cam and Grant aren't exactly good contracts. The thing is, all are comparable players to Bridges but have no baggage, in fact the opposite is true for someone like Tobias Harris.

At the end of the day Charlotte decided that paying Bridges was worthwhile to them, let's see how it pans out.

You're missing the point. All those guys would be considered non-difference makers too if they were 2nd options or on the Hornets. We literally saw it with Wizards, nobody would be saying wow Wizards did good locking up KP.

It basically boils down to the fact he is on Charlotte. Because if we had given Bane the Max, OG over 40 million, Quickley 35 million... then everyone would hate the deal too because the argument would be they don't make us better.

Dejounte as the 2nd best player on the Hornets isn't doing anything Bridges isn't, same with Herro or Simons.

Where Charlotte wins the deal is if LaMelo and Miller ascend to a real 1-2 punch, we start winning until then it is easy to point to every move we make as a non-difference maker.

It’s criminally stupid to point at his advanced metrics as a 1st option role he played last year and say therefore he’s not worth getting the contract of a 3rd or 4th option. If he’s in the role he had last year again it means we had another horrible injury luck season and it’s all irrelevant anyway

Obviously Miles Bridges is not a good 1st option which was proven last year, even more obviously that is not the short or long term goal of the front offices team build

Texas Chuck wrote:

JMAC3 wrote:The Mavs literally gave Kyrie 3/120 when nobody else was even bidding, should they have only given 3/75 because nobody else could beat it? There were people saying that when he signed.


The reactions are like we just gave him 40+ a year and is paid as a top 30 guy and the Franchise will never recover.

I think people thinking Dallas was taking a big risk were absolutely right to think so. Sure last season worked out great(once he got healthy), but the year before Dallas was 5th when they added him and didn't make the play-in. And of course all the risk of him asking out again or not playing for a variety reasons were very real even if so far they haven't happened. So yeah some less than positive takes when he signed seem fine to me.

And then the hyperbole sucks. And that's the issue itt. The people expressing concern are mostly taking very measured approaches. I'm certainly not exaggerating anything like what you are trying to accuse. If you want to deal in reality, we can debate. But I don't assign you stupid positions to have to defend. I'd appreciate the same.

Huh? Because I brought up a similar situation it is a stupid position? Again this happens all the time. Nobody had enough cap space to sign LeBron, does that mean Lakers should try to get him to take less? Players generally get paid what they are valued at regardless of the market. Same thing with Harden, nobody was bidding against the Clippers yet they still gave him 2/70.

but yes Charlotte should have lowballed Bridges to the point he took a 1 yr MLE deal somewhere else. That would have shown him lol

Just out of curiosity, what do people think would have been a good deal for Charlotte resigning Bridges? Or is it just that any contract at all for such a trash player is a bad deal? Like where is the $$$$/yr sit for the consensus to be "oh yeah, that was a good deal for Charlotte"?

JMAC3 wrote:

Colbinii wrote:
Right...Porzingis was downright bad and injured with Dallas. He played great with Washington and then people's view change.

We are allowed to change our view on Bridges if he:

1) Doesn't beat the **** out of his partner in the future
2) Plays better than he ever has on the court

It basically boils down to the fact he is on Charlotte. Because if we had given Bane the Max, OG over 40 million, Quickley 35 million... then everyone would hate the deal too because the argument would be they don't make us better.

Well I love the Quickley deal because I am a Quickley truther.

RE Bane and OG: Those are two key players on title contenders. Different thing when comparing title contenders holding their core together versus Charlotte and their current time table, right?

Also, both Bane and OG have proven to be better players than Bridges without off-court drama.

Dejounte as the 2nd best player on the Hornets isn't doing anything Bridges isn't, same with Herro or Simons.

We can agree to disagree with Dejounte, who is vastly underpaid.

But like I said, Herro and Simons were significantly younger when they signed their contracts. They are still younger and have room to grow, improve and get significantly better. But, the point here, which you glossed over, is they were signed with tons of potential.

Lol you literally just confirmed what I said. Bane and OG are on title contenders so their contracts are viewed differently... ala Bridges being on a bad team is factoring into your decision. Just like if Charlotte paid OG it would be a bad decision since we aren't a contender.

Nah, both OG and Bane are significantly better players [in my eyes] than Bridges.

My point is more about MPJ, who I think is also overpaid but the reason was to keep a title contender together.

But yeah, contracts aren't all the same in a vacuum. A team paying more to keep a title contender around is justified while a bottom feeder overpaying a role player doesn't actually make sense.

and yes everyone loved Porzingis on the Wizards, which is why they got a 2nd round pick and Tyus Jones for him. League was really valuing him lol

I never said people loved him. I said people's views changed--and they did.

JMAC3 wrote:
Huh? Because I brought up a similar situation it is a stupid position? Again this happens all the time. Nobody had enough cap space to sign LeBron, does that mean Lakers should try to get him to take less? Players generally get paid what they are valued at regardless of the market. Same thing with Harden, nobody was bidding against the Clippers yet they still gave him 2/70.

but yes Charlotte should have lowballed Bridges to the point he took a 1 yr MLE deal somewhere else. That would have shown him lol

You said we are acting like the franchise will never recover. Yeah that's stupid and invented.

And again with the straw man with the MLE elsewhere as if these are the only two options....

good luck, this is pointless though. I respond to your posts and then you just make up a position and assign it to me and then mock it. You don't even have the self-awareness to realize you are mocking yourself not me, because its not my position.

Everything's awesome!

Rich4114 wrote:Just out of curiosity, what do people think would have been a good deal for Charlotte resigning Bridges? Or is it just that any contract at all for such a trash player is a bad deal? Like where is the $$$$/yr sit for the consensus to be "oh yeah, that was a good deal for Charlotte"?

I think Bridges isn't a player I would want around my team, especially with some of the charade surrounding LaMelo. But I don't know how Miles Bridges the person is in a team atmosphere compared to how he is in a intimate relationship. Maybe he is amazing in the lockerroom and a great leader--though given his history I do have some doubts about his character.

I would have liked to see some non-guarantee's for Charlotte to cut-bait at any time, similar to the Kevin Porter Jr. Remember, he signed 4/63 Million with only 15 Million Guaranteed.

Colbinii wrote:
I never said people loved him. I said people's views changed--and they did.

Right when he got to go to Boston and be the 4th highest paid player on the best team in the league. Who literally would have won the NBA title without him.

JMAC3 wrote:

Colbinii wrote:
I never said people loved him. I said people's views changed--and they did.

Right when he got to go to Boston and be the 4th highest paid player on the best team in the league. Who literally would have won the NBA title without him.

I think some people started to change their tune surrounding Porzingis when he was in Washington. He had a terrific season, but I understand not 100% of people were clamouring for him being 100% different.

This seems a bit off-topic at this point though. Any other thoughts on Bridges?

I have one, DeMar DeRozan is a better/similar player [more proven, no doubt] and just signed 3/73 with partial guarantee on Y3. Why couldn't Charlotte have done something similar?

Rich4114 wrote:Just out of curiosity, what do people think would have been a good deal for Charlotte resigning Bridges? Or is it just that any contract at all for such a trash player is a bad deal? Like where is the $$$$/yr sit for the consensus to be "oh yeah, that was a good deal for Charlotte"?

My position all along has been Charlotte should sign him to a decent deal(around this amount is fine) but with non-gtd years. That way there is some upside for the team if he performs as many of you believe he will, but protection in case it doesn't. This is pretty typical for guys with his off the court concerns. Kevin Porter Jr pretty much an easy template--that's been cited many times by me and jay.

Making it all gtd is much more my issue than the AAV. Even if he's as mediocre as he's been the past 2 seasons, the money isn't crippling or preventing Charlotte from doing other things. But its going to suck to have it stuck on the books if things don't go great. And he couldn't do better so they should have been able to push harder.

And if he balked, I don't see letting him see what he could find elsewhere before coming back hat in hand as some bad result. This isn't some core guy I don't want to risk offending. He's already done my franchise very wrong.

Texas Chuck wrote:

Rich4114 wrote:Just out of curiosity, what do people think would have been a good deal for Charlotte resigning Bridges? Or is it just that any contract at all for such a trash player is a bad deal? Like where is the $$$$/yr sit for the consensus to be "oh yeah, that was a good deal for Charlotte"?

My position all along has been Charlotte should sign him to a decent deal(around this amount is fine) but with non-gtd years. That way there is some upside for the team if he performs as many of you believe he will, but protection in case it doesn't. This is pretty typical for guys with his off the court concerns. Kevin Porter Jr pretty much an easy template--that's been cited many times by me and jay.

B-I-N-G-O

Rich4114 wrote:Just out of curiosity, what do people think would have been a good deal for Charlotte resigning Bridges? Or is it just that any contract at all for such a trash player is a bad deal? Like where is the $$$$/yr sit for the consensus to be "oh yeah, that was a good deal for Charlotte"?

3yr75. Even up to 81 mil and/or 15% incentives on top of that. But future years unguaranteed. Maybe 2nd year with a small/half guarantee to cave in some…

Maybe push for at least a team option..

Or give him a few less million a year if you were going to keep the full thing guaranteed. Say 3yr 57-63 range?

But that’s my only issue. The guarantee part, the contract he’s on feels like it should have something for CLT.

Seems like Bridges got everything he realistically could have and CLT just got to keep him. Doesn’t seem like much of a negotiation.

I don’t understand why Charlotte fans are saying people are saying he’s a trash basketball player. That’s very strange to me.

Texas Chuck wrote:

Rich4114 wrote:Just out of curiosity, what do people think would have been a good deal for Charlotte resigning Bridges? Or is it just that any contract at all for such a trash player is a bad deal? Like where is the $$$$/yr sit for the consensus to be "oh yeah, that was a good deal for Charlotte"?

My position all along has been Charlotte should sign him to a decent deal(around this amount is fine) but with non-gtd years. That way there is some upside for the team if he performs as many of you believe he will, but protection in case it doesn't. This is pretty typical for guys with his off the court concerns. Kevin Porter Jr pretty much an easy template--that's been cited many times by me and jay.

Making it all gtd is much more my issue than the AAV. Even if he's as mediocre as he's been the past 2 seasons, the money isn't crippling or preventing Charlotte from doing other things. But its going to suck to have it stuck on the books if things don't go great. And he couldn't do better so they should have been able to push harder.

And if he balked, I don't see letting him see what he could find elsewhere before coming back hat in hand as some bad result. This isn't some core guy I don't want to risk offending. He's already done my franchise very wrong.

Kevin Porter Jr was a much worse player than Bridges. In 4 years he had a career 4 Win Shares to his name.
Miles Bridges is at 18.2 win shares through 5 years.

Very unrealistic for Bridges who already lost out probably 50 million at least between QO this year and missing yr before to secure zero certainty in his next contract. Especially when it was already reported 3-4 teams were interested in SnT for him.

JMAC3 wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:

Rich4114 wrote:Just out of curiosity, what do people think would have been a good deal for Charlotte resigning Bridges? Or is it just that any contract at all for such a trash player is a bad deal? Like where is the $$$$/yr sit for the consensus to be "oh yeah, that was a good deal for Charlotte"?

My position all along has been Charlotte should sign him to a decent deal(around this amount is fine) but with non-gtd years. That way there is some upside for the team if he performs as many of you believe he will, but protection in case it doesn't. This is pretty typical for guys with his off the court concerns. Kevin Porter Jr pretty much an easy template--that's been cited many times by me and jay.

Making it all gtd is much more my issue than the AAV. Even if he's as mediocre as he's been the past 2 seasons, the money isn't crippling or preventing Charlotte from doing other things. But its going to suck to have it stuck on the books if things don't go great. And he couldn't do better so they should have been able to push harder.

And if he balked, I don't see letting him see what he could find elsewhere before coming back hat in hand as some bad result. This isn't some core guy I don't want to risk offending. He's already done my franchise very wrong.

Kevin Porter Jr was a much worse player than Bridges. In 4 years he had a career 4 Win Shares to his name.
Miles Bridges is at 18.2 win shares through 5 years.

Very unrealistic for Bridges who already lost out probably 50 million at least between QO this year and missing yr before to secure zero certainty in his next contract. Especially when it was already reported 3-4 teams were interested in SnT for him.

You have the weirdest arguments--why are you comparing WS?

Fact #1) KPJ just completed his AGE 21 season before signing his contract extension.
Fact #2) As a 21 year old, he finished the season [Final 21 games] averaging 20/6/5 on 44/37/71 shooting splits
Fact #3) KPJ was clearly better than #2 overall pick Jalen Green in 2022

So yeah, you are really missing the boat here with "Look at the Win Shares!". The fact is KPJ was an absolute stud during the 2nd half of his AGE 21 season.

Hell, compare it to the last 21 games of Brandon Miller's Age 21 season:
20/6/5 on 44/37/71
19/5/2.5 on 44/37/81

Full Season:
Miller: 0.8 WS, -2.6 BPM, -65.6 TS+, 17/4/2.5
KPJ: 0.8 WS, -1.6 BPM, -61.8 TS+, 16/4.5/6

Kevin Porter Jr was really freaking good in 2022 for a 21 year old.

jayjaysee wrote:I don’t understand why Charlotte fans are saying people are saying he’s a trash basketball player. That’s very strange to me.

Because the discourse has been split back and forth in the thread between the off-court and basketball talent.

Very few people were saying he is worth the contract just on talent alone, which is what I think Charlotte fans are pushing back on. Now the tune has started to flip and it's been all talk about the off-court stuff.

but this stuff was definitely an angle posters were jumping on...bad defender, empty stats, doesn't try takes...

Colbinii wrote:

JMAC3 wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:
My position all along has been Charlotte should sign him to a decent deal(around this amount is fine) but with non-gtd years. That way there is some upside for the team if he performs as many of you believe he will, but protection in case it doesn't. This is pretty typical for guys with his off the court concerns. Kevin Porter Jr pretty much an easy template--that's been cited many times by me and jay.

Making it all gtd is much more my issue than the AAV. Even if he's as mediocre as he's been the past 2 seasons, the money isn't crippling or preventing Charlotte from doing other things. But its going to suck to have it stuck on the books if things don't go great. And he couldn't do better so they should have been able to push harder.

And if he balked, I don't see letting him see what he could find elsewhere before coming back hat in hand as some bad result. This isn't some core guy I don't want to risk offending. He's already done my franchise very wrong.

Kevin Porter Jr was a much worse player than Bridges. In 4 years he had a career 4 Win Shares to his name.
Miles Bridges is at 18.2 win shares through 5 years.

Very unrealistic for Bridges who already lost out probably 50 million at least between QO this year and missing yr before to secure zero certainty in his next contract. Especially when it was already reported 3-4 teams were interested in SnT for him.

You have the weirdest arguments--why are you comparing WS?

Fact #1) KPJ just completed his AGE 21 season before signing his contract extension.
Fact #2) As a 21 year old, he finished the season [Final 21 games] averaging 20/6/5 on 44/37/71 shooting splits
Fact #3) KPJ was clearly better than #2 overall pick Jalen Green in 2022

So yeah, you are really missing the boat here with "Look at the Win Shares!". The fact is KPJ was an absolute stud during the 2nd half of his AGE 21 season.

Hell, compare it to the last 21 games of Brandon Miller's Age 21 season:
20/6/5 on 44/37/71
19/5/2.5 on 44/37/81

Full Season:
Miller: 0.8 WS, -2.6 BPM, -65.6 TS+, 17/4/2.5
KPJ: 0.8 WS, -1.6 BPM, -61.8 TS+, 16/4.5/6

Kevin Porter Jr was really freaking good in 2022 for a 21 year old.

Yes, let's continue to switch lanes 20 times lol... first it was empty stats yada yada so I stayed away from raw stats hence the Win Shares and Vorp numbers being tossed around... but now it matters to prop up KPJ.

JMAC3 wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

JMAC3 wrote:
Kevin Porter Jr was a much worse player than Bridges. In 4 years he had a career 4 Win Shares to his name.
Miles Bridges is at 18.2 win shares through 5 years.

Very unrealistic for Bridges who already lost out probably 50 million at least between QO this year and missing yr before to secure zero certainty in his next contract. Especially when it was already reported 3-4 teams were interested in SnT for him.

You have the weirdest arguments--why are you comparing WS?

Fact #1) KPJ just completed his AGE 21 season before signing his contract extension.
Fact #2) As a 21 year old, he finished the season [Final 21 games] averaging 20/6/5 on 44/37/71 shooting splits
Fact #3) KPJ was clearly better than #2 overall pick Jalen Green in 2022

So yeah, you are really missing the boat here with "Look at the Win Shares!". The fact is KPJ was an absolute stud during the 2nd half of his AGE 21 season.

Hell, compare it to the last 21 games of Brandon Miller's Age 21 season:
20/6/5 on 44/37/71
19/5/2.5 on 44/37/81

Full Season:
Miller: 0.8 WS, -2.6 BPM, -65.6 TS+, 17/4/2.5
KPJ: 0.8 WS, -1.6 BPM, -61.8 TS+, 16/4.5/6

Kevin Porter Jr was really freaking good in 2022 for a 21 year old.

Yes, let's continue to switch lanes 20 times lol... first it was empty stats yada yada so I stayed away from raw stats hence the Win Shares and Vorp numbers being tossed around... but now it matters to prop up KPJ.

Dude what are you even talking about? I am simply saying KPJ was signed to his contract because of his potential and what he showed at age 21.

I feel like at this point you are just arguing to argue, so let's re-focus here.

Do you think KPJ was an excellent talent at the age of 21 posting those stats?
Do you think Houston did right by giving an off-court malcontent unguaranteed years?