PG: Embarrassing loss to ORL

[HerSports85]

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Translation: We're tired as hell, but we can't say it. Who would come out and just say something like that other than Ant.

So now you have KAT, Brunson and Hart all hinting that they're fatigued. Remind you, it's only January.

Our only options right now is to play the bench or trade Mitch in a 2 for 1 to get more help. If we keep playing these guys the way we are, it will be another 2nd round exit.

[GettinitDone]

Sims, Achiuwa and Shamet all getting over 20 minutes like we all wanted and providing the spark we all knew they would provide. Magnificent performance by our fresh and energized spark plugs. If only our starters played less we would have totally blown out the Magic tonight with our amazing depth. Really enjoyed their performance, more minutes coach

In other words you think the team would be better off playing all starters 48 mins every game? Got it!



Cole Anthony had been barely in rotation for a few weeks, then injury happened to Suggs and he played and dropped 24 in this game. Even when his own coach Moshley thought Cole sucked when he gave him playing time, he produced.

Most NBA players when they're given playing time and trust, they produce.

Under coaches like Moshley, Daignault, Spo, Lue, aka the real coaches players like Huk, Kolek would be in rotation. They all can play, even Pac.

Take more risks, that's how the team you lead can thrive. Playing it safe is the riskiest move you can take, and we're all now paying for it dearly.

No I have this crazy idea, check it out. So there’s this guy who has the power to make these things called trades, right? You won’t believe it but he’s the same guy who brought in the starting lineup. So his job is to recognize the weakness of the bench and actually do something about it by making a trade. So until that happens, there are going to be some bad losses and bumps along the way. Crazy I know but that’s what other teams are doing so we just have to wait our turn

Dude we could have a prime MJ sitting on the bench now, but if Thibs gave him DNP-CDs, and noone knew who he was, then he'd be publicly perceived as a scrub too.

You're trying to blame the bench sucking for why Thibs only uses an 8 man rotation. But your dude's been doing that forever !! Remember just last year?? He DNP-CDd Alec Burks for a month then when we started dropping like flies, he had no choice but to play Burks and he started playing amazing. Duhhh... !! He could've played Burks all along and preserved legs for OG, but nope... no matter how good you're, you're getting DNP-CDs, Thibs gonna Thibs, Thibs apologists gonna.. jerk off to his wall poster.

Kolek and Huk can play when they're given the mins, make no mistake about it. Under more competent coaches, they would be in rotation and consistent contributors today.

[robillionaire]

This happens every season and people start thinking the sky is falling and then we run off another 8 in a row

[KnicksGadfly]

The bench talent is pure garbage. Healthy or not, tired or not, you cannot contend for a chip if you have the worst bench in the league.

Yes, you can. When the Nuggets won their ring, they did it based on largely a 6 man rotation in the playoffs. However, during the regular season, Malone kept the Nuggets main 6 at reasonable levels minutes-wise. Jokic was at 33.7.

They had guys like Zeke Nnaji, Vlatko Cancer, old ass Jeff Green, old ass Reggie playing. Some rookies who weren't ready like Braun or Bones. Even DeAndre. All those dudes were pretty much benched when it was playoff time.

We probably have a better bench than them, when guys are healthy tbh. But we should not be using playoff rotations in the regular season that quickly. We're not in must-in win mode yet. We should not be risking guys' health like this. It's not worth it, not at this moment.

They also had the best player on the planet. I mean they’re the exception, not the rule.

Yes, it is the exception, not the rule, but I think there is a lot deeper analysis that we can go into, beyond Jokic is the best player on the planet.

There are enough similarities that there are lessons that we can draw from this in that we have similarly top heavy rosters, and that both coaches will spam their players for 40+ minutes when they think the time is right. One coach had one of the most injury prone players in the game, MPJ, and kept him at under 30 minutes a game during the season before upping his minutes dramatically. We have OG. I'd even argue that we have a better PG on our bench. We get annoyed at Cam Payne, but Denver had old ass Reggie Jackson, chucker Bones Hyland, and journeyman Ish Smith.

Yea, Jokic was the best player in the game, but the Nuggets still pieced together a strong regular season where they kept him at 33 minutes, Murray at 33, Gordon at 30, MPJ at 29, Bruce Brown at 28.5. I'm not expecting those minutes for our guys, but I think it's too easy to say that there's nothing Thibs can do.

My last point: we're ass without Towns. Losing one top player on this top-heavy roster is devastating. If Thibs finds a way to burn through all our top guys in the regular season and not have anything left over the playoffs, he deserves to get fired.

[TKKnicks1]

We suck at making threes and we suck at guarding threes. Worst two things to have in today's NBA.

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[The KnicksFix]

This happens every season and people start thinking the sky is falling and then we run off another 8 in a row

While I tend to agree, this isn’t just every other season
Something genuinely feels off with this team, they look dead

[Context]

Not developing the bench and over working our 6 main guys is why the Knicks are playing this way.
Thibs was playing 6/7 guys in the 40's for the most part...Now he's forced to play guys and unfortunately -those guys will have to
develop chemistry as well. This is just part of the process...

Stop talking logic, Context. They suppose to jump right off the bench after not getting any significant or consistent mins and just be good.

I just have faith that Leon is on top of this stuff...cant wait to see what the solution is. Thibs just has this look on his face like-
"what?!- they have to play better" I really think he's delusional and stuck in his world. I havent been watch Thibs since he got here.
I'm a year in now and it's crystal clear to me HS...The pace in the nba is not like the 90's. I watch that OKC and Boston game and
neither side looked gassed.

Can somebody photoshop the wake up phil with thibs body on it?

[Parraknick]

This happens every season and people start thinking the sky is falling and then we run off another 8 in a row

Hmm disagree. This is the most acute example of kamikaze coaching.

We have a good squad, our championship odds have not been this good in a long time.

Pretty much every discerning poster here has made mention of the minutes at every point in the season. Even when we were winning games, the messaging has been consistent from us.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Brunson could have played better if he wasn't hobbled. OG could play better if he wasn't hobbled. KAT/Deuce could have played if they weren't injured. The bench could play better if they ever got a consistent role and minutes to form chemistry with the rest of the team. Which in turn would help prevent the players from getting banged up.

Imagine not blaming the person who makes all of this happen. Do lots of coke to work harder to make more money to buy lots of coke to work harder.

Thibs has reached his plateau. We will stagnate and after another year of wasted time he will be fired. It's all been done before everywhere he has ever coached.

[seren]

The bench can’t get prepared for games because we don’t practice. We don’t practice because starters play way too much so Thibs has to give them a break. Vicious cycle

[Butch718]

Yes, you can. When the Nuggets won their ring, they did it based on largely a 6 man rotation in the playoffs. However, during the regular season, Malone kept the Nuggets main 6 at reasonable levels minutes-wise. Jokic was at 33.7.

They had guys like Zeke Nnaji, Vlatko Cancer, old ass Jeff Green, old ass Reggie playing. Some rookies who weren't ready like Braun or Bones. Even DeAndre. All those dudes were pretty much benched when it was playoff time.

We probably have a better bench than them, when guys are healthy tbh. But we should not be using playoff rotations in the regular season that quickly. We're not in must-in win mode yet. We should not be risking guys' health like this. It's not worth it, not at this moment.

They also had the best player on the planet. I mean they’re the exception, not the rule.

Yes, it is the exception, not the rule, but I think there is a lot deeper analysis that we can go into, beyond Jokic is the best player on the planet.

There are enough similarities that there are lessons that we can draw from this in that we have similarly top heavy rosters, and that both coaches will spam their players for 40+ minutes when they think the time is right. One coach had one of the most injury prone players in the game, MPJ, and kept him at under 30 minutes a game during the season before upping his minutes dramatically. We have OG. I'd even argue that we have a better PG on our bench. We get annoyed at Cam Payne, but Denver had old ass Reggie Jackson, chucker Bones Hyland, and journeyman Ish Smith.

Yea, Jokic was the best player in the game, but the Nuggets still pieced together a strong regular season where they kept him at 33 minutes, Murray at 33, Gordon at 30, MPJ at 29, Bruce Brown at 28.5. I'm not expecting those minutes for our guys, but I think it's too easy to say that there's nothing Thibs can do.

My last point: we're ass without Towns. Losing one top player on this top-heavy roster is devastating. If Thibs finds a way to burn through all our top guys in the regular season and not have anything left over the playoffs, he deserves to get fired.

So if they lose Towns, and they’re not good enough to beat an Orlando Magic team that’s without 2 of their best players and Mo Vagner, then this team’s issues go beyond the starters playing too many minutes.

The bench is pathetic, Thibs is beyond stubborn, our starters play too many minutes, and the talent in the starting lineup is not good enough to overcome this come playoff time.

I am of course oversimplifying things, but it’s pretty much spot on.

[Context]

We are shooting 29.8% from three the last 5 games, the cracks in the armor were starting to show during the winning streak. The minutes load for these guys was not sustainable and you're seeing the results of a coach that pushed his team way too hard too soon.

thank you for that stat and I didnt feel like looking it up...it's crystal clear. All of a sudden everybody is bad from three...

[Context]

This is a very dangerous period. If something doesn’t change extremely soon, I think this season could implode.

I’ve spent the last 15 years working in sports medicine and what we are on the cusp of is burning through everyone’s tolerance to niggles.

IMO, the only way to avoid writing off the season is to accept a significant period of poorer results and go the other way with the minutes. I.e overplaying the fringe guys.

Dont worry...Leon is no fool...he wont waste this cores development.

[sortpar]

Not developing the bench and over working our 6 main guys is why the Knicks are playing this way.
Thibs was playing 6/7 guys in the 40's for the most part...Now he's forced to play guys and unfortunately -those guys will have to
develop chemistry as well. This is just part of the process...

It’s honestly just unbelievable what is going on. I’ve never seen anything like it.

Then you must have missed Nick Nurse, burn out the starters on the Raptors in future seasons, after they won in 2019. Also, Doc Rivers burning out the 76er's starters, until he was let go and now they have Nick Nurse, doing basically the same thing.

[seren]

This happens every season and people start thinking the sky is falling and then we run off another 8 in a row

This is not every season. This is the season we expect to make a run for a ring. Previous seasons were all about low expectations so anything we did nice was just fun. We just gave away like 5 picks and all our cap space for this squad and Thibs seems to be dead set on making sure at least one of these guys have a career threatening injury

[Context]

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Translation: We're tired as hell, but we can't say it. Who would come out and just say something like that other than Ant.

So now you have KAT, Brunson and Hart all hinting that they're fatigued. Remind you, it's only January.

Our only options right now is to play the bench or trade Mitch in a 2 for 1 to get more help. If we keep playing these guys the way we are, it will be another 2nd round exit.

the bold had lmao as soon as i read those words...

[seren]

They also had the best player on the planet. I mean they’re the exception, not the rule.

Yes, it is the exception, not the rule, but I think there is a lot deeper analysis that we can go into, beyond Jokic is the best player on the planet.

There are enough similarities that there are lessons that we can draw from this in that we have similarly top heavy rosters, and that both coaches will spam their players for 40+ minutes when they think the time is right. One coach had one of the most injury prone players in the game, MPJ, and kept him at under 30 minutes a game during the season before upping his minutes dramatically. We have OG. I'd even argue that we have a better PG on our bench. We get annoyed at Cam Payne, but Denver had old ass Reggie Jackson, chucker Bones Hyland, and journeyman Ish Smith.

Yea, Jokic was the best player in the game, but the Nuggets still pieced together a strong regular season where they kept him at 33 minutes, Murray at 33, Gordon at 30, MPJ at 29, Bruce Brown at 28.5. I'm not expecting those minutes for our guys, but I think it's too easy to say that there's nothing Thibs can do.

My last point: we're ass without Towns. Losing one top player on this top-heavy roster is devastating. If Thibs finds a way to burn through all our top guys in the regular season and not have anything left over the playoffs, he deserves to get fired.

So if they lose Towns, and they’re not good enough to beat an Orlando Magic team that’s without 2 of their best players and Mo Vagner, then this team’s issues go beyond the starters playing too many minutes.

The bench is pathetic, our starters play too many minutes, and our talent in the starting lineup is not good enough to overcome this come playoff time.

Or perhaps their legs are shot after all the back to backs they had to play 40+ minutes. Bench doesn’t know what to do because we don’t run practices anymore

[spree8]

Brunson could have played better if he wasn't hobbled. OG could play better if he wasn't hobbled. KAT/Deuce could have played if they weren't injured. The bench could play better if they ever got a consistent role and minutes to form chemistry with the rest of the team. Which in turn would help prevent the players from getting banged up.

Imagine not blaming the person who makes all of this happen. Do lots of coke to work harder to make more money to buy lots of coke to work harder.

Thibs has reached his plateau. We will stagnate and after another year of wasted time he will be fired. It's all been done before everywhere he has ever coached.

Yep, it just seems the Thibs defenders are looking at the issues superficially instead of the root cause. Chronic fatigue kills everything

[Context]

This happens every season and people start thinking the sky is falling and then we run off another 8 in a row

when i was looking at the history of knick winning streaks -I believe thibs has the most 9 game streaks...the point is-
that actually supports the point of too many minutes on the starters or thibs short rotations. The make a 9 game run- get tired-
catch up on energy- then they make another run and the cycle continues...

[Parraknick]

Not developing the bench and over working our 6 main guys is why the Knicks are playing this way.
Thibs was playing 6/7 guys in the 40's for the most part...Now he's forced to play guys and unfortunately -those guys will have to
develop chemistry as well. This is just part of the process...

It’s honestly just unbelievable what is going on. I’ve never seen anything like it.

Then you must have missed Nick Nurse, burn out the starters on the Raptors in future seasons, after they won in 2019. Also, Doc Rivers burning out the 76er's starters, until he was let go and now they have Nick Nurse, doing basically the same thing.

1, 2 & 7

We occupy those places in NBA minutes per game this season