The fall-off when players leave Jokic is crazy

[CodeBreaker]

The drop off is huge because the team revolves around Jokic and that's how management has built the team.

The question I ask, can Jokic still be Jokic if paired with another high usage star? This was a criticism of Lebron for many years. Lebron ball talking point. The difference was that not only was 'Lebron ball' more conducive to winning but even when Lebron joined other stars, he became a weapon off the ball. Via his ability to defend 5 positions and become an offensive force on the break. Jokic will never be that guy. So he either has the ball in his hands or he's useless.

Lol you obviously don't watch Jokic play. Jokic ability to play off-ball, set screens, touch passes, spot-ups is what separates him to being the best offensive engine ever unlike heliocentric ball-dominant guys like Lebron, Luka, Harden. Go watch Jokic tapes before commenting something like this, it's laughable.

Westbrook right now is feasting with Jokic, while he was turned into a brick-laying machine with Lebron

Lebron has proven he can take scrubs to the Finals while also playing with stars. Two things that Jokic hasn't ever done. He may never be able to as effective with another star either.

Flexing that one time Lebron reached the Finals? Only to get swept there? Since you wanna be a homer here.
How about one thing Lebron will never do, win the Finals without any All-Star teammate.

[bledredwine]

LeSteroid as the best floor raiser of all time is absolutely wild! He makes players worse.

Jokic and Magic Johnson are top tier floor raisers.

My thoughts as well. Lebron’s so overrated here and by the media. It’s Kobe hype (while he was playing) 2.0, of course. I’m excited for this time to pass just like that did. I’m much more okay with being annoyed with the next best player because at least Jokic/Wemby are likable and not roidheads who try to team up and claim championships before actually competing.

[The4thHorseman]

Lol you obviously don't watch Jokic play. Jokic ability to play off-ball, set screens, touch passes, spot-ups is what separates him to being the best offensive engine ever unlike heliocentric ball-dominant guys like Lebron, Luka, Harden. Go watch Jokic tapes before commenting something like this, it's laughable.

Westbrook right now is feasting with Jokic, while he was turned into a brick-laying machine with Lebron

Lebron has proven he can take scrubs to the Finals while also playing with stars. Two things that Jokic hasn't ever done. He may never be able to as effective with another star either.

Flexing that one time Lebron reached the Finals? Only to get swept there? Since you wanna be a homer here.
How about one thing Lebron will never do, win the Finals without any All-Star teammate.

It doesn't matter that Murray wasn't voted into the all star game. What matters is that he avg all star numbers in the Finals. That's just common sense.

[CodeBreaker]

Lebron has proven he can take scrubs to the Finals while also playing with stars. Two things that Jokic hasn't ever done. He may never be able to as effective with another star either.

Flexing that one time Lebron reached the Finals? Only to get swept there? Since you wanna be a homer here.
How about one thing Lebron will never do, win the Finals without any All-Star teammate.

It doesn't matter that Murray wasn't voted into the all star game. What matters is that he avg all star numbers in the Finals. That's just common sense.

And saying Jokic is useless off-ball means you lack common sense

[The4thHorseman]

Flexing that one time Lebron reached the Finals? Only to get swept there? Since you wanna be a homer here.
How about one thing Lebron will never do, win the Finals without any All-Star teammate.

It doesn't matter that Murray wasn't voted into the all star game. What matters is that he avg all star numbers in the Finals. That's just common sense.

And saying Jokic is useless off-ball means you lack common sense

Which has absolutely nothing to do with my post.

[Exp0sed]

LeSteroid as the best floor raiser of all time is absolutely wild! He makes players worse.

Jokic and Magic Johnson are top tier floor raisers.

My thoughts as well. Lebron’s so overrated here and by the media. It’s Kobe hype (while he was playing) 2.0, of course. I’m excited for this time to pass just like that did. I’m much more okay with being annoyed with the next best player because at least Jokic/Wemby are likable and not roidheads who try to team up and claim championships before actually competing.

Jokic is old school basketball personified

dude goes home in the summer to play with his horses and diming up locals in his pickup game, now that's a hooper!

Watch on YouTube

[GeorgeSears]

KCP is the most noticeable drop off. It just seemed like he was a perfect fit for the Magic who were in need of a perimeter defender. Instead, he's having arguably his worst year on both ends.

[NZB2323]

The reason why they were the best starting 5 is because of Jokic. They’re 20-30 without him.

Saying Jokic has never beat a 50 win team is pretty disingenuous when he beat a 49 win team during a season where they only played 72 games.

Another example from the LBJ bubble to create narratives with partly false and misleading stats. If they were the best starting 5 why did they suck so bad when Joker wasnt playing?

I literally mentioned the Clippers, if any of you could read instead of being dicks.

Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see a mention of the Clippers in the post of yours that I quoted.

EDIT: I see it now. @One_Last_Shot was the one I quoted who said Jokic has never beat a 50 win team and failed to mention that the 2020 Clippers won 49 games during a 72 game season.

The argument in general seems strange to me, especially coming from LeBron fans, because LeBron beat a lot of teams in the East that didn’t win 50 games, and Jokic has beat LeBron and AD in the playoffs twice.

The 2023 Lakers were a good team. They didn’t win 50 games but LeBron only played 55 games that year and AD only played 56 games that year. They were really good down the stretch.

It just seems weird to me. If we judge playoff teams by how many regular season games they won, then you could argue the 1995 Rockets are the worst champion of all time because they didn’t win a lot of regular season games or you could argue that they’re the best team of all time because they beat a bunch of teams that won a lot of regular season games.

[MrPainfulTruth]

Another example from the LBJ bubble to create narratives with partly false and misleading stats. If they were the best starting 5 why did they suck so bad when Joker wasnt playing?

I literally mentioned the Clippers, if any of you could read instead of being dicks.

Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see a mention of the Clippers in the post of yours that I quoted.

EDIT: I see it now. @One_Last_Shot was the one I quoted who said Jokic has never beat a 50 win team and failed to mention that the 2020 Clippers won 49 games during a 72 game season.

The argument in general seems strange to me, especially coming from LeBron fans, because LeBron beat a lot of teams in the East that didn’t win 50 games, and Jokic has beat LeBron and AD in the playoffs twice.

The 2023 Lakers were a good team. They didn’t win 50 games but LeBron only played 55 games that year and AD only played 56 games that year. They were really good down the stretch.

It just seems weird to me. If we judge playoff teams by how many regular season games they won, then you could argue the 1995 Rockets are the worst champion of all time because they didn’t win a lot of regular season games or you could argue that they’re the best team of all time because they beat a bunch of teams that won a lot of regular season games.

Well theres a small army of LeBron influencers out there trying to discredit everyone who could threaten his status, so its not very surprising the hand craft supposedly meaningful numbers that dont hold up when tested. We really dont need to look further than Russell Westbrook when comparing their ability as floor raisers. A two years younger version of Westbrook could not be "raised" by LBJ ultimately resulting in LeBron scapegoating him and throwing him under the bus. He was explicitly demanded by LeBron, dont forget that.

Two years later, Jokic went out of the way to get an older, less athletic version of Westbrook to the Nuggets. He manages to bring out the best in him, never fingerpoints when Russ goes on one of his rare mental glitches, always makes him feel safe and wanted and valuable. Why are we even talking about LBJ any more as a "floor raiser"? He needed a legion of superstars to win anything. How can one rewrite history and call this "floor raising"?

[bledredwine]

LeSteroid as the best floor raiser of all time is absolutely wild! He makes players worse.

Jokic and Magic Johnson are top tier floor raisers.

My thoughts as well. Lebron’s so overrated here and by the media. It’s Kobe hype (while he was playing) 2.0, of course. I’m excited for this time to pass just like that did. I’m much more okay with being annoyed with the next best player because at least Jokic/Wemby are likable and not roidheads who try to team up and claim championships before actually competing.

Jokic is old school basketball personified

dude goes home in the summer to play with his horses and diming up locals in his pickup game, now that's a hooper!

Watch on YouTube

100%
That’s why I love his game. He’s a throw back to when you needed multiple aspects of scoring but in the modern spacing and he’s not a diva. It’s cool to see.

[Peregrine01]

Does anyone over 6’10 go up softer than MPJ? He had his **** sent back by Pritchard.