2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III

[okboomer]

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I’d like to have this guy with the 35th pick. I wouldn’t mind burning one of those 2nd rounders we got from the Wiz to move up.

I like him too, though I agree he wont be there at 35. Would have to move up.

[M2J]

How would you guys say the meeting went with
VJ and Sixers when they started considering trading up rather than down? We all know he won't be going number 2 to the Spurs who have Castle, so not trading up for him. My reasoning says that at least displays their preferred interest isn't VJ, maybe it's Dylan... Maybe Ace. Wonder if they work out Tre?

Hope they find themselves worthy of Ace next week

[Negrodamus]

How would you guys say the meeting went with
VJ and Sixers when they started considering trading up rather than down? We all know he won't be going number 2 to the Spurs who have Castle, so not trading up for him. My reasoning says that at least displays their preferred interest isn't VJ, maybe it's Dylan... Maybe Ace. Wonder if they work out Tre?

Hope they find themselves worthy of Ace next week

It says nothing. Morey isn’t going to commit to one player while holding the 3rd pick. Anything can happen, so why be unprepared?

[sodmoraes]

The upside is intriguing because he’s blazing fast when driving off the catch and he makes some really underrated passes. Clean lobs. I’d focus on him being early Spurs Kawhi, “boardman gets paid” type player early in which he seems to love doing. He was ripping boards away from grown ass men.

If you are on board with VJ Ibaka being an early Spurs Kawhi, i dont know why you wouldnt prefer to get Ace and let him being a 3&D earlier in his carreer, while he develops other parts of his game, since Ace´s potential is way bigger than VJ...

[LeonJordanJr24]

The upside is intriguing because he’s blazing fast when driving off the catch and he makes some really underrated passes. Clean lobs. I’d focus on him being early Spurs Kawhi, “boardman gets paid” type player early in which he seems to love doing. He was ripping boards away from grown ass men.

If you are on board with VJ Ibaka being an early Spurs Kawhi, i dont know why you wouldnt prefer to get Ace and let him being a 3&D earlier in his carreer, while he develops other parts of his game, since Ace´s potential is way bigger than VJ...

Exactly

[Negrodamus]

The upside is intriguing because he’s blazing fast when driving off the catch and he makes some really underrated passes. Clean lobs. I’d focus on him being early Spurs Kawhi, “boardman gets paid” type player early in which he seems to love doing. He was ripping boards away from grown ass men.

If you are on board with VJ Ibaka being an early Spurs Kawhi, i dont know why you wouldnt prefer to get Ace and let him being a 3&D earlier in his carreer, while he develops other parts of his game, since Ace´s potential is way bigger than VJ...

You guys can keep telling me Ace’s potential is higher than VJ’s but it doesn’t make it any more true than the last time you said it.

[ProcessDoctor]

I just want June 25th to come already.

I'm really hoping for a Dylan Harper trade-up at this point. I would be fine with VJ or Ace as well, but I'm not confident about either becoming a championship-level 1A. I can see either of them being a solid starter on a championship team (i.e. Gordon, Porter Jr., Barnes) and/or getting 1-3 all-star nods (i.e. Beal, Lavine, Wiggins) in their careers.

I can also see VJ being a "holy ****, how is BPM 4.5?!" kind of impact player though, whereas idk that Ace will have that sort of all-around game. Ace really just wants to put the ball in the basket.

I still have VJ > Ace > Kon > Tre.

[sodmoraes]

The upside is intriguing because he’s blazing fast when driving off the catch and he makes some really underrated passes. Clean lobs. I’d focus on him being early Spurs Kawhi, “boardman gets paid” type player early in which he seems to love doing. He was ripping boards away from grown ass men.

If you are on board with VJ Ibaka being an early Spurs Kawhi, i dont know why you wouldnt prefer to get Ace and let him being a 3&D earlier in his carreer, while he develops other parts of his game, since Ace´s potential is way bigger than VJ...

You guys can keep telling me Ace’s potential is higher than VJ’s but it doesn’t make it any more true than the last time you said it.

We will still make you an Ace Believer, just wait it...

[CPops57]

Except Joe Ingles was 6'9" with a 6'10" wingspan. Those extra 4 inches of length are important in getting shots off and being able to defend forwards.

1) To be precise, I believe that Ingles was measured at 6-7.75" without shoes and a wingspan of 6-10.25". So if you're calling Ingles 6-9, that's with shoes. I think Kon will be playing basketball wearing shoes too.

2) Whatever his precise size, it's natural that Ingles was taller and longer as he was a 3/4 in the NBA. Kon is shorter and projects out as a 2/3 and will tend to be matched up against smaller players than Ingles typically was. There's not any kind of serious point made here by comparing Kon's height to Ingles.

3) Kon is not long or explosive, but he has some significantly positive attributes as a defender. He has a thick frame, is strong, has defensive smarts, a low center of gravity, and processes the game very well. He's not going to be an elite individual defender, but is going to be a smart team defender and be able to hold his ground adequately against better athletes.

4) Ingles had a great NBA career for an undrafted guy coming out of Australia, but he never showed the shooting touch that Kon projects out to. Ingles entered the NBA as a 27 year old, so he had plenty of time to practice, and still only averaged 77.4% from the free throw line for his career. In contrast, Kon averaged 91.4% as a freshman.

[Negrodamus]

If you are on board with VJ Ibaka being an early Spurs Kawhi, i dont know why you wouldnt prefer to get Ace and let him being a 3&D earlier in his carreer, while he develops other parts of his game, since Ace´s potential is way bigger than VJ...

You guys can keep telling me Ace’s potential is higher than VJ’s but it doesn’t make it any more true than the last time you said it.

We will still make you an Ace Believer, just wait it...

Are there games left for him to show he’s an adequate passer, rim threat, actual >75% FT shooter, etc? Otherwise, I doubt I’ll be swayed.

[Stanford]

Imagine tanking a whole year to draft 6'7" Jordan Poole with Herb Jones upside

[Negrodamus]

I’m not totally off the Essengue train yet either. Being a 6’11 PF that moves like a guard is very intriguing.

[CPops57]

He likes Kon b/c there's fewer holes, closer to his final form which works better for Philly win now. He's at bottom 7-8% of NBA athletes. Then overstates his standing reach. He thinks Kon can play defense in the playoffs... oh man have we jumped the shark. Keeps calling him a shooter without mentioning the obvious off the dribble issues.

Forget this draft for a second. Just think about gambling odds using the following circumstance:

Pretend there's a guy who shot over 40% from 3 as a freshman at a big college program, and was even able to win his conference's tournament MVP. He averaged over 91% from the free throw line, so you know he has natural shooting ability. He has one of the more consistent shooting forms you'll ever see in a player that young. He's no Kyrie Irving, but everybody agrees he has a solid handle on the ball for his position.

Everybody agrees he's very mature, comes from a great basketball background, is a hard-worker, and self-aware enough to say in interviews that even though he's a good shooter, there's a few specific areas he has to work on for the pros.

Nothing is an ironclad guarantee in life, but under this circumstance, why wouldn't it be a reasonable bet for a young guy who's a natural good shooter and a coachable hard worker to get better at off dribble shooting?

Nothing is 100% in life, but this feels like one of the safer bets you could ever make: a guy refining skills he already possesses.

[okboomer]

Imagine tanking a whole year to draft 6'7" Jordan Poole with Herb Jones upside

I was thinking a taller Dillon Brooks though Jordan Poole also has never seen a shot he hasnt liked .

[sodmoraes]

I think his low free throw percentage is not a big deal. He shot low fts per game in his season at Rutgers ( 3.6 per game) and the season isnt very long in college basketball, so may be a significative variance in his numbers. He shot 104 fts and made 74. If he made 80 he would be a 75% shooter. If you remove his game against Setton Hall, which was as an outlier( since he shot 1 for 8) his ft numbers would be 74%, and he would be considered a decent shooter? I think he wont have problems with his fts in the nba, since, for all the records we have, he was a good shooter in high school, and he has good form ( shooting ft´s, mid range and 3 points), so i dont think that´s a make or break on his evaluation as a prospect.

[Black Mage]

Except Joe Ingles was 6'9" with a 6'10" wingspan. Those extra 4 inches of length are important in getting shots off and being able to defend forwards.

1) To be precise, I believe that Ingles was measured at 6-7.75" without shoes and a wingspan of 6-10.25". So if you're calling Ingles 6-9, that's with shoes. I think Kon will be playing basketball wearing shoes too.

2) Whatever his precise size, it's natural that Ingles was taller and longer as he was a 3/4 in the NBA. Kon is shorter and projects out as a 2/3 and will tend to be matched up against smaller players than Ingles typically was. There's not any kind of serious point made here by comparing Kon's height to Ingles.

3) Kon is not long or explosive, but he has some significantly positive attributes as a defender. He has a thick frame, is strong, has defensive smarts, a low center of gravity, and processes the game very well. He's not going to be an elite individual defender, but is going to be a smart team defender and be able to hold his ground adequately against better athletes.

4) Ingles had a great NBA career for an undrafted guy coming out of Australia, but he never showed the shooting touch that Kon projects out to. Ingles entered the NBA as a 27 year old, so he had plenty of time to practice, and still only averaged 77.4% from the free throw line for his career. In contrast, Kon averaged 91.4% as a freshman.

Team defense means jack when in the playoffs a team just hunts you over and over each time down on PNR and screens. He was strong against college kids who were often smaller than him; not so sure that holds up as well as some think in the pros.

[Black Mage]

He likes Kon b/c there's fewer holes, closer to his final form which works better for Philly win now. He's at bottom 7-8% of NBA athletes. Then overstates his standing reach. He thinks Kon can play defense in the playoffs... oh man have we jumped the shark. Keeps calling him a shooter without mentioning the obvious off the dribble issues.

Forget this draft for a second. Just think about gambling odds using the following circumstance:

Pretend there's a guy who shot over 40% from 3 as a freshman at a big college program, and was even able to win his conference's tournament MVP. He averaged over 91% from the free throw line, so you know he has natural shooting ability. He has one of the more consistent shooting forms you'll ever see in a player that young. He's no Kyrie Irving, but everybody agrees he has a solid handle on the ball for his position.

Everybody agrees he's very mature, comes from a great basketball background, is a hard-worker, and self-aware enough to say in interviews that even though he's a good shooter, there's a few specific areas he has to work on for the pros.

Nothing is an ironclad guarantee in life, but under this circumstance, why wouldn't it be a reasonable bet for a young guy who's a natural good shooter and a coachable hard worker to get better at off dribble shooting?

Nothing is 100% in life, but this feels like one of the safer bets you could ever make: a guy refining skills he already possesses.

Imagine that same guy NEEDING every shot outside of the rim to be created for him because on pull-ups he shot 14% and admits he's not comfortable doing them.

No one asking why didn't this kid work on that shot all this time?

[Negrodamus]

I think his low free throw percentage is not a big deal. He shot low fts per game in his season at Rutgers ( 3.6 per game) and the season isnt very long in college basketball, so may be a significative variance in his numbers. He shot 104 fts and made 74. If he made 80 he would be a 75% shooter. If you remove his game against Setton Hall, which was as an outlier( since he shot 1 for 8) his ft numbers would be 74%, and he would be considered a decent shooter? I think he wont have problems with his fts in the nba, since, for all the records we have, he was a good shooter in high school, and he has good form ( shooting ft´s, mid range and 3 points), so i dont think that´s a make or break on his evaluation as a prospect.

You don’t see the FTA being so low that one game can affect his entire FT% drastically? There’s many levels to my concerns of Ace. It’s not just FT%.

[CPops57]

Imagine that same guy NEEDING every shot outside of the rim to be created for him because on pull-ups he shot 14% and admits he's not comfortable doing them.

Who was creating shots for him during the ACC tournament? Cooper Flagg?

No one asking why didn't this kid work on that shot all this time?

Maybe he was reasonably practicing the things he needed to do for the offense that Duke was running?

[CPops57]

For what it's worth, I don't put a whole lot of stock into combine testing as games in the real world have attributes like basketball-IQ and processing speed impacting how fast players actually are as they need to recognize plays and decide where to go, on top of actually running there, but the NBA released updated combine strength/agility results that included Kon Kneuppel. I suppose that rather than ducking the tests, he actually had some kind of injury at the time, and must have run them sometime in the last few days.

https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-strength-agility?dir=D&sort=MAX_VERTICAL_LEAP

The results IMO were better than expected. The agility results were all in the lowest tier: nothing unexpected there. But the standing vertical leap and max vertical leap tests were actually good though, surpassing Cooper Flagg's.