RealGM

cupcakesnake wrote:

Black Jack wrote:They should drop Dort not Wallace if there is a salary cap issue later. I don't watch a ton of OKC but it sure seemed like Wallace was the cleanup guy when Dort started having issues.

Crazy luxury to be able to theoretically drop Dort and have multiple other guys who could play his role.

Dort is probably the best pure POA defender in the league. Cason isn't a big drop off though, and he was way more potential 2-way versatility. I think the Thunder are hoping Cason is a long term piece, though I think it's more likely Cason becomes pretty expensive. It's really plain to see how good Cason is, especially if there's some offensive growth. I doubt he's one of these guys the Thunder can sign to a team friendly deal.

Yeah probably OKC's title team will spawn a few guys who go to other squads and are a 1/2 option.

To me this kid could have been the league's first $400 million player had he signed a shorter deal and become a FA again in 2028 or 2029...

Crazy as it may sound he actually appears unselfish by accepting this amount right now.

pepe1991 wrote:

lethalizer wrote:

greekman wrote:
honestly I'd rather have a healthy ingram. he won as the sidekick to the best player in the world. at one time so did murray, irving, klay thomson, siakam, jalen brown also did.

You really would rather have a healthy Ingram over Jalen Williams? I mean good for you obviously but lol.

Also good for you to include health in there, considering Ingram missed 146 games over the past 4 seasons.

Seems like we're both happy in this equation in all honesty.

That was typical "tell me you don't know much about ball without telling me you know much about ball".

Ingram is definition of empty stats.

His offense isn't efficient enough to justify career 26% usage rate.
He neither raises team floor nor ceiling.
And his defense is definition of mediocrity.

Guy is modern day Kevin Martin. His counting look so much better than his actual on court value.

I don't even care is Ingram is healthy or not, he simply isn't winning basketball player. Career 227-268 record, ofc it's all on him, but fact that Pelicans got rid of him as soon as they were sure Trey Murhpy III is real deal tells you a lot about Ingram as player.
And from health pov, his toothpick frame will always be problematic.

The Pelicans offered him a 4 year 160m deal which he turned down.

It's a more respectable 81-73 when both Ingram and Zion played together. Zion's lack of availability combined with his own injury issues obviously hurt the team along with the organizational dysfunction we all know about.

He’s so worth this contract playing as he did in the playoffs through injury. This guys efficiency is absolutely crazy when he’s at full health. And he’s still going to get better. It’s quite possible he could be a #1 for a championship team not just a #2.

sfernald wrote:It’s quite possible he could be a #1 for a championship team not just a #2.

not even close.

remember the overpaid contracts poole and wiggins received after the last gs championship? williams and chet is twice as bad.

another no brainer

thunder can easily duck the 2nd apron in 2026-27. in 2028-29 the league might opt out the current cba. we might be looking at a 3 year run with basically one year in the 2nd apron which is impressive, and then no more.

I would be willing to bet all the nay sayers would love to have dub and sga and Chet on their team, people are so jealous. Okc built this team the right way, these guys if not locked in would have maybe made more money somewhere else. Jdub showing how damn tough he was playing with a torn ligament that holds his hand to his wrist, come on now anybody else would have packed it in for the season. I injury’s happen but man okc is rocking for a while. Might not win another chip but they will be very hard to beat.

Wolveswin wrote:

AussieBuck wrote:They'll be able to trade firsts for guys on bargain contracts.

As I said in Chet thread…

A trade Presti needs to make is obvious despite shaking up a championship team. But these are bench role players we are talking about.

To Nets: IHart/Caruso

To OKC: Claxton/Mann

OKC gets much better contracts, younger, and more versatile. Claxton contract is less and decreasing and Mann contract is less and holds steady.

Hurts to lose Caruso, but Wallace is next man up for that role. Mann backfill helps ease the pain too.

This is a horrific trade for OKC that they would think was a joke if it was offered.

Big nick wrote:I would be willing to bet all the nay sayers would love to have dub and sga and Chet on their team, people are so jealous. Okc built this team the right way, these guys if not locked in would have maybe made more money somewhere else. Jdub showing how damn tough he was playing with a torn ligament that holds his hand to his wrist, come on now anybody else would have packed it in for the season. I injury’s happen but man okc is rocking for a while. Might not win another chip but they will be very hard to beat.

sga and (insert 2 top 40 players) would still contend. overpay. jamal murray never got the kind of respect jdub is getting and hes been putting up those numbers for years.

Ayt wrote:

Wolveswin wrote:

AussieBuck wrote:They'll be able to trade firsts for guys on bargain contracts.

As I said in Chet thread…

A trade Presti needs to make is obvious despite shaking up a championship team. But these are bench role players we are talking about.

To Nets: IHart/Caruso

To OKC: Claxton/Mann

OKC gets much better contracts, younger, and more versatile. Claxton contract is less and decreasing and Mann contract is less and holds steady.

Hurts to lose Caruso, but Wallace is next man up for that role. Mann backfill helps ease the pain too.

This is a horrific trade for OKC that they would think was a joke if it was offered.

It really isn’t. You just can’t think about it.

100% this is last season for IHart. He will walk for nothing because 100% Presti can’t pick up his option. OKC Left with nothing - is his play worth more than Claxton but Claxton can be kept?

Caruso and Mann comparison isn’t close. But Wallace is Caruso replacement. Again, Presti is hopeful to get a trade for Caruso before he is forced to let him walk for zero.

Bucks4005 wrote:

ChumboChappati wrote:

Pantsman wrote:Knew it was coming after Chet got his. Welcome to second apron hell OKC.

OKC is not as good as their management thinks. They will regret these huge contract

They already got a championship. They rewarded the core that got them that, why would they regret anything? Like, what else is what they’re doing for if not that?

I mean, what’s the other option exactly? Trade Holmgren or Williams for cheaper players who “might” win you a championship after the Williams/SGA/Holmgren core already won you one and looks good going forward? “We just won a championship, but looking forward, we’re gonna break up the core because they might not win it again?” Like, if your comparing odds, what do you think are the odds “this core stays good” vs “trading for a cheaper fit will give me a better chance”

I’d take “already won championship core” as the safer bet every time to win another one. I feel like RealGM is looking at this like Family Guy Peter looks at the mystery box.

“A boat’s a boat, but the mystery box could be anything! It could even be a boat!”

No issues with max for SGA and Jalen; but awarding max to Holmgren is baffling.

web123888 wrote:

Lakers In 5 wrote:

Patches Perry wrote:
Maybe top 15 depending how you rate post prime guys like KD.

Jalen Williams just made All-NBA and All-NBA defense in the same season while being the 2nd best player on a championship team. He is one of the best defenders in the league while being a really good scorer and playmaker. Top 100 is wildly underrating him.

Yes, that was a sarcastic remark to emphasise my surprise at your statement. Jalen Williams, top 10? I am quite certain even Jalen Williams wouldn't agree with that assessment. Could you name me the players that you think are better than Jalen Williams? I am really interested in hearing so.

Jokic, SGA, Giannis, Luka, Edwards, Brunson, Curry, LeBron, Davis, Wembanyama, Mitchell.

Healthy Tatum, Embiid, Haliburton are removed as they are not in the picture currently or for next season.

Essentially have him just outside the top 10 and inside the top 15, around 11-13 or so.

I feel like at least for the upcoming season, JW is comfortably ahead of Davis and Brunson. I feel like he's miles ahead of LeBron.

i have jdub as a top 25 player but cmon...

you know when brunson will be a champion? never...

can't make up for a weak link this big on defense. the pacers just trashed the knicks just by locking on their weak links.

also arguably lebron, embiid... can you wear those guys to a championship again? can you count on embiid availability? can lebron keep up with the speed?

ChumboChappati wrote:

Bucks4005 wrote:

ChumboChappati wrote:OKC is not as good as their management thinks. They will regret these huge contract

They already got a championship. They rewarded the core that got them that, why would they regret anything? Like, what else is what they’re doing for if not that?

I mean, what’s the other option exactly? Trade Holmgren or Williams for cheaper players who “might” win you a championship after the Williams/SGA/Holmgren core already won you one and looks good going forward? “We just won a championship, but looking forward, we’re gonna break up the core because they might not win it again?” Like, if your comparing odds, what do you think are the odds “this core stays good” vs “trading for a cheaper fit will give me a better chance”

I’d take “already won championship core” as the safer bet every time to win another one. I feel like RealGM is looking at this like Family Guy Peter looks at the mystery box.

“A boat’s a boat, but the mystery box could be anything! It could even be a boat!”

No issues with max for SGA and Jalen; but awarding max to Holmgren is baffling.

Why? The injuries were pretty fluky. He was 18th in xRAPM last year and he's 17th in EPM. He's going to be the second favorite to win DPOY next year behind Wembanyama. Oh yeah, and he just finished his 2nd season in the NBA, just turned 23, and he's a #2 overall pick. Like I feel like he's a super easy top 10 trade asset. Who would you say is more valuable than him? I've got:

Wemby, Joker, SGA, Luka, and ANT as definites

Tatum and Haliburton as maybes depending on how much you worry about the injuries.

JW and Flagg as maybes too

That's still a top 10 trade value guy in the league. Devin Booker's making $20MM/year more and his ceiling is being like borderline 3rd-team all-NBA. Balking at giving Chet the rookie extension max is crazy. He could easily be a top 10 player this season and he's not close to peaking yet.

the injuries might have saved the thunder a lot of money with chet, it's what it is. the thunder's defense is the best thing in the nba and we all saw that he's the thunder's defense mvp. he's getting a regular contract when we should be looking at a JJJ albatross deal.

Williams>Jaylen Brown

Too much for Jalen Williams. He's a very good player, but not worth quite that much.. maybe he has another leap, but we'll see.

Bornstellar wrote:OKC has their big three locked up. But this almost certainly means Dort/Wallace/Hartenstein will be hard to retain

If these guys (OKC trio, and other leading players on other teams), were full franchise players, they would each sacrifice some money to allow the team more collective flexibility to have the best chance to win while they are in their prime.

The Spurs Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker (and Aldridge too), did this multiple times, taking moderately less money, and is a big reason why the Spurs were contenders, or legit playoff teams (to a lesser degree), for so long.

Now, OKC long-term, for the base-life of SGA/Chet/Jalen's prime years, does not have the best chance they could have to win long term, and be a contender -- and in a small market. Not following the Spurs model contract money-wise to any degree, isn't a good path to go down here. Long-term do they still have a good chance to remain contenders? Yes, but not as good as a contender team, as they could be with more roster flexibility. They are going to lose out on moves to get better, to other teams who may end up over taking them, or on their level year after year. Making things tougher to win.

OKC didn't really exercise discipline here, and are living too much in the "now".

Eventually, a team or two are going to come along who are a true issue for OKC, and they won't be able to match because OKC couldn't add enough balance and tweaks to their roster due to all the money tied up to Chet/Jalen, and yes, SGA too..

Either Chet or Jalen develop major injury issues, then those contracts are albatrosses.

Ballings7 wrote:Too much for Jalen Williams. He's a very good player, but not worth quite that much.. maybe he has another leap, but we'll see.

Bornstellar wrote:OKC has their big three locked up. But this almost certainly means Dort/Wallace/Hartenstein will be hard to retain

If these guys (OKC trio, and other leading players on other teams), were full franchise players, they would each sacrifice some money to allow the team more collective flexibility to have the best chance to win while they are in their prime.

The Spurs Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker (and Aldridge too), did this multiple times, taking moderately less money, and is a big reason why the Spurs were contenders, or legit playoff teams (to a lesser degree), for so long.

Now, OKC long-term, for the base-life of SGA/Chet/Jalen's prime years, does not have the best chance they could have to win long term, and be a contender -- and in a small market. Not following the Spurs model contract money-wise to any degree, isn't a good path to go down here. Long-term do they still have a good chance to remain contenders? Yes, but not as good as a contender team, as they could be with more roster flexibility. They are going to lose out on moves to get better, to other teams who may end up over taking them, or on their level year after year. Making things tougher to win.

OKC didn't really exercise discipline here, and are living too much in the "now".

Eventually, a team or two are going to come along who are a true issue for OKC, and they won't be able to match because OKC couldn't add enough balance and tweaks to their roster due to all the money tied up to Chet/Jalen, and yes, SGA too..

Either Chet or Jalen develop major injury issues, then those contracts are albatrosses.

You can't force players to sign for less, especially when they are obvious max contract players like Williams and Holmgren. What did you expect OKC to do? Trade them?

Ballings7 wrote:OKC didn't really exercise discipline here, and are living too much in the "now".

lol what. what else are the supposed to do? both of these players are deserving of max contracts. they know that, the thunder know that, and their agents know that. they just won a goddamn title, do you think the appropriate course of action is to play pointless hardball and take your 2nd and 3rd best players to restricted free agency? give me a break.

the thunder have two seasons with relatively little concern when it comes to their cap sheet and more flexibility than they could ever want to address problems that may arise beyond that. anyone whining about these deals has no clue what they are talking about. it even seems like they got chet at 25% max and if jalen williams doesn't make all-nba next season they are in really, really great shape.