Trading Redd Is Not The Way

[paulpressey25]

I know this isn't the right thread, but people are on here now, so I'll toss this out.....did you guys see the Hornets beat Phoenix tonight and have virtually the same record as the Suns?

That George Shinn is considered maybe the worst owner in the league for all his shenangans....but his team has kicked Kohl's ASS for the last 15 years as it relates to results....

Charlotte turns over players, coaches, etc like a turnstile but yet is always winning 45-50 games save for 2005 when they bottomed out, and they walked away with Chris Paul.

[Simulack]

Charlotte turns over players, coaches, etc like a turnstile but yet is always winning 45-50 games save for 2005 when they bottomed out, and they walked away with Chris Paul.

They have done really well in the draft:

1999: Baron Davis at #3
2000: Magloire at #19
2001: Haston at #16
2002: No pick
2003: West at #18
2004: JR Smith at #18
2005: Paul at #4
2006: Armstrong at #12/Simmons at #15
2007: Wright at #13

Obviously some misses there but they drafted three guys in Davis, Paul and West who are better than anyone the Bucks have drafted during those years.

And Shinn unlike Kohl let his team take on a contract like Chandler's whose turned out to be a very valuable player.

[paulpressey25]

And Shinn let them go out and spend $60 million to sign Peja......most of us laughed at that contract.....but you get a veteran who knows how to win it helps.....

We spent the $47 million on Bobby, a much younger guy we thought was on the way up, but hadn't proven anything...and Tim Thomas.....

NOK spent the dough on a proven commodity...no upside...but proven.

Watch Julian Wright bust out next season into the next Deng.....

[europa]

A few guys have proven to actually have insider info and that is Gad, XTitan, and I believe a little of Europa (although that TJ not being traded really set him back).

Huh? I never said Ford wouldn't be traded. I said I thought it would be a mistake to trade him - which it turned out to be. That was my opinion. I never posted something along the lines of "my sources have told me Ford won't be traded." Sorry. In fact, GAD posted a lengthy response about Ford in another thread last week which talked about how the team viewed Ford and much of what he wrote supported things I have posted in this forum since the trade.

I have noticed our other 'insiders' are right sometimes, but also wrong sometimes.

That's the nature of the business. Just because info is posted that later doesn't turn out to be true doesn't always mean it's false. It could very well have been true at the time but events dictated things changing.

An example - I think most people who follow the NFL would agree that ESPN's Chris Mortensen is one of the best NFL writers around these days. Some would argue he's the best. When Eli Manning got hurt, he wrote that his sources told him it was a major injury that would require Manning missing several weeks at least. As it turned out, Manning played the next game (against Green Bay) and never missed a game.

Was Mortensen wrong? Yes. But does that mean he's not to be trusted? I wouldn't argue that unless he had a long series of reports that turned out to be wrong - which isn't the case. What likely happened was that very good sources told him the prognosis but Manning recovered quicker than expected. Sometimes things happen which change the way a story unfolds, but that doesn't mean the sources are poor or the person reporting the info lacks credibility. Life doesn't always unfold the way people expect sometimes.

Just something to think about.

[carmelbrownqueen]

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The only source you have is constantly refreshing JS, trying to be the first to post an article here. You've never revealed a single thing of value to this board, and are just one of a dozen nobodies trying to make themselves sound important here with the constant name-dropping of "inside sources."

Yeah, I'm "known" on these boards as just some name dropper..that's truly funny. Since typically the information I receive I don't even bother to post. Many times I leave that to the other guys on the board and say little about what I know.

And not that I need to explain anything to you but I typically post articles just to give us something different to talk about basides b%":hing about the same players all the time...like some posters on here are "known" for doing.

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

CBQ, I was out of line in making the crack about posting articles. Truth be told, I appreciate that you and others do that. So I apologize for that half of my post and the overall negative tone. But I still stand by all my comments about the inside sources issue.

[europa]

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Yeah, I'm "known" on these boards as just some name dropper..that's truly funny. Since typically the information I receive I don't even bother to post. Many times I leave that to the other guys on the board and say little about what I know.

It's unfortunate that when people who are fortunate enough to be privy to certain things post about what they know the conversations often turn from the information itself and its validity (a fair source of discussion) into a series of attacks on the poster sharing the info. I find that to be more than a little sad and extremely unfortunate. The end result is it makes people who do have access to this type of information less inclined to post it in the future. And that doesn't do anybody any good because it lowers the value of this forum and certainly lowers the amount of information we can use to discuss intelligently the state of this team and where it may be headed in the future.

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

europa, I hope you never do share "inside information" in the future. That's the point. You haven't established any credibility as far as actually having any valuable sources, so nobody wants to hear what is really just your opinions masquerading as if they're the opinions of GMs and coaches around the league.

[europa]

europa, I hope you never do share "inside information" in the future. That's the point. You haven't established any credibility as far as actually having any valuable sources, so nobody wants to hear what is really just your opinions masquerading as if they're the opinions of GMs and coaches around the league.

Thank you for proving my point.

[carmelbrownqueen]

[quote="adamcz"][/quote]Your behavior is uncalled for..and unreasonably disrespectful. If a poster writes something that you can't confirm via nba.com, game footage, or other some other 'common' source then it has to be crap. Everything isn't going to be confirmed for you because you want it to be. Whenever someone is entrusted with information...if we want to keep getting more then it cannot be revealed who the exact source is. So if you want to ignore information by posters who won't reveal their sources to you that's fine. Ignore those posts and continue believing whatever you like..I could care less.

As far as me telling you to research on your own..that's what a person seeking knowledge is supposed to do. I know wha GAD posted and I have some information that's similar to his and somethings about the process that might be different. Right now I can't say..however some of the things posted during that time by various posters were absolutely correct. Look through previous posts and FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF.

[REDDzone]

europa, I hope you never do share "inside information" in the future. That's the point. You haven't established any credibility as far as actually having any valuable sources, so nobody wants to hear what is really just your opinions masquerading as if they're the opinions of GMs and coaches around the league.

See I personally disagree with this though. I want as many people as possible to share this 'inside' info as possible. It brings more topics for discussion and more food for thought to the forum. And, as Europa said, it enriches the forum, whether that mean the forum is more knowledgeable or just that it has more topics to discuss.

Just take all of the info with a grain of salt (except FormerBuckFan, he is pretty well established).

What DOES annoy me, is when you are in a spirited debate with someone, and they claim you be wrong wrong because an 'unnameable source' told them so. If me and you are arguing Bogut's value in the league, and I say its high, and you say its low, that argument should not end with you claiming that your 'unnameable' source told you his value is low. That is pretty much the only time I think this type of info is detrimental (or perhaps just not beneficial?) to the forum.

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

As far as me telling you to research on your own..that's what a person seeking knowledge is supposed to do.

You are wrong. If you don't know who posted your information, then you have no business saying that it was "inside information." How can you not understand that?

[carmelbrownqueen]

CBQ, I was out of line in making the crack about posting articles. Truth be told, I appreciate that you and others do that. So I apologize for that half of my post and the overall negative tone. But I still stand by all my comments about the inside sources issue.

Keep your apology.

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

lol, so are you going to admit that when you said "several posters with insider sources posted this" you really had no f'ing clue who those posters are? I asked you a half dozen times who they are, and you keep telling me to look them up, as if it's possible to do so without knowing their names. So just admit that you have no clue what you're talking about and we can drop it.

[carmelbrownqueen]

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It's unfortunate that when people who are fortunate enough to be privy to certain things post about what they know the conversations often turn from the information itself and its validity (a fair source of discussion) into a series of attacks on the poster sharing the info. I find that to be more than a little sad and extremely unfortunate. The end result is it makes people who do have access to this type of information less inclined to post it in the future. And that doesn't do anybody any good because it lowers the value of this forum and certainly lowers the amount of information we can use to discuss intelligently the state of this team and where it may be headed in the future.

Truth be told... I made a lot of mistakes posting information on this forum and I learned a great deal from it. Some forget that I was the one who would often post segments from emails I received directly from Larry Harris a few years ago just to help "authenticate" what I was posting. Yeah.. that wasn't a good idea. I learned through that and some other situations with other sources, who actually read these boards, to avoid trying to prove how much I know. It prevents them from sharing based on their position in a situation...Often times I will read something on here from GAD, xTItan, and soforth and check in with a few of the folks I know for verification.. Sometimes they are reporting the end result, sometimes they are reporting the "process" that leads to the end result. Depending on the poster and who they have been talking with (like you said early) information may be posted that later is incorrect but at the time was very very accurate. Usually what I try to do is just post what I think of the situation not what I have been told... or try and elicit opinions based on news reports that are more "tangible and verifiable" because we can tear it apart and play with the significance or insignificance of things. If that makes me a bad poster then so what! There is nothing I am going to do about it, and I invite those who don't like my style to just put me on ignore, that's what I would do if I were them.

And what's so funny to me is that I don't typically say anything about what my sources are telling me because I can't and won't put myself in a position where I lose the trust of those who tell me the most. So a few of the comments on this thread about what I do and don't post are especially humorous. My point earlier regarding the SAR thing was that some of the things posted by others on this board was accurate at the time.. look it up and you'll find what I am talking about. If someone is interested in the process of how things ended up a certain way that's the best way to find it. If they aren't.. then again, there is nothing I can do for them it's not my issue it's there's. I am very secure in the things I have been told and have nothing to gain or loss from letting others figure things out on their own.

[carmelbrownqueen]

europa, I hope you never do share "inside information" in the future. That's the point. You haven't established any credibility as far as actually having any valuable sources, so nobody wants to hear what is really just your opinions masquerading as if they're the opinions of GMs and coaches around the league.

Wow so now you're the COLLECTIVE VOICE of what everyone wants on the board.

[carmelbrownqueen]

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You are wrong. If you don't know who posted your information, then you have no business saying that it was "inside information." How can you not understand that?

It's not my information. The information posted during that time from very individuals was correct at the time.. That was my point and I stand by that. Go back and read many of the threads on that situation and you will get your answers. Some things reported where being said from the very beginning of the process, and others were being posted from the end.. but most were 100% dead on in many elements of things.

Except that or not, like I said before that's totally up to you.

[carmelbrownqueen]

lol, so are you going to admit that when you said "several posters with insider sources posted this" you really had no f'ing clue who those posters are? I asked you a half dozen times who they are, and you keep telling me to look them up, as if it's possible to do so without knowing their names. So just admit that you have no clue what you're talking about and we can drop it.

Go read for yourself.. I'm not going to copy and paste all those posts because you aren't willing to do it for yourself.

[msiris]

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It's not my information. The information posted during that time from very individuals was correct at the time.. That was my point and I stand by that. Go back and read many of the threads on that situation and you will get your answers. Some things reported where being said from the very beginning of the process, and others were being posted from the end.. but most were 100% dead on in many elements of things.

Except that or not, like I said before that's totally up to you.

CBQ I hope you do not stop posting info that most of us like to read. I say the same to others. Who knows who has insider info. I do not care anyways, since we are limited to Bucks info in general. Its fun to read. GAD had insider info about a trade not long ago. It did not happen, but I would not call him out on it. Why? Because things change all the time. Things fall through.

[europa]

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Truth be told... I made a lot of mistakes posting information on this forum and I learned a great deal from it. Some forget that I was the one who would often post segments from emails I received directly from Larry Harris a few years ago just to help "authenticate" what I was posting. Yeah.. that wasn't a good idea. I learned through that and some other situations with other sources, who actually read these boards, to avoid trying to prove how much I know. It prevents them from sharing based on their position in a situation...Often times I will read something on here from GAD, xTItan, and soforth and check in with a few of the folks I know for verification.. Sometimes they are reporting the end result, sometimes they are reporting the "process" that leads to the end result. Depending on the poster and who they have been talking with (like you said early) information may be posted that later is incorrect but at the time was very very accurate. Usually what I try to do is just post what I think of the situation not what I have been told... or try and elicit opinioins based on news reports that are more "tangible and verifiable" because we can tear it apart and play with the significance or insignificance of things. If that makes me a bad poster than so what.. nothing I am boing to do about it, and I invite those who don't like my style to just put me on ignore, that's what I would do if I were them.

And what's so funny to me is that I don't typically say anything about what my sources are telling me because I can't and won't put myself in a position where I lose the trust of those who tell me the most. So a few of the comments on this thread about what I do and don't post are especially humorous. My point earlier regarding the SAR thing was that some of the things posted by others on this board was accurate at the time.. look it up and you'll find what I am talking about. If someone is interested in the process of how things ended up a certain way that's the best way to find it. If they aren't.. then again, there is nothing I can do for them.

The bottom line is some people are a**holes and there's not a lot you can do about it.

I find it sad that some people will go to any lengths to suppress information simply because they don't agree with it. So they attack the poster(s) providing the info, hoping that by issuing enough attacks they can make people forget what's really important - the information itself. But as I posted before all that serves to do is weaken the forum because it leads people to refrain from posting more info that they know or posting info at all. I've yet to ascertain how that helps anybody here.

I remember when FormerBuckFan posted some info and people attacked him left and right - even after myself and Press and a few others who knew him from our JS days vouched for his credibility. And yet, the attacks continued until the information came to light. What was really sad was how mean spirited people got for no good reason. I didn't understand it then and I don't understand it as it continues to this day. It serves no purpose but it's clear some people have no interest in true discussion. All they really want to do is attack those whose opinions may differ from their own.

For myself, I think I've been very clear about what is my opinion and what is info I've been fortunate enough to be given. Unfortunately even when I'm careful I've noticed the distinction isn't understood so I have to go to even greater lengths to make sure there isn't any confusion. But yea, it sucks when you are given info that you know would be of interest but you decide not to share it because the attitudes some people here have makes it pointless.

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What DOES annoy me, is when you are in a spirited debate with someone, and they claim you be wrong wrong because an 'unnameable source' told them so.

This is a good topic of discussion. So what would you suggest be done in that situation? For example, whether Adam or anyone else wants to believe it or not I am privy to certain pieces of info due to my job and the contacts I've made throughout the league. So if you tell me Player A has no value around the league and I know for a fact that isn't correct, how would you like me to present this info without revealing who specifically has given me this info?

All I'm trying to do, for example, is add more info and context to a discussion when I present the info I've been given. But if there's a better way for me to present it I'm certainly open to suggestions.