The Kobe Step Through

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Re: The Kobe Step Through 

Post#121 » by sixerswillrule » Sun Mar 1, 2009 6:06 am

There's also about a dozen people in this thread that have agreed with me.
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Re: The Kobe Step Through 

Post#122 » by Zeitgeister » Sun Mar 1, 2009 6:31 am

sixerswillrule wrote:NO

ONE

DOES

IT


Hardly anyone does the skyhook either, but that doesn't make it illegal. Also, you are wrong when you state that no one does it. I've seen players besides Kobe use this move.
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Re: The Kobe Step Through 

Post#123 » by marcroboy » Sun Mar 1, 2009 6:48 am

Can't believe no one posted this video in 9 pages..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzrGyi6g ... re=related


He jumped with the non-pivot foot while the pivot foot was off the ground. Not saying it's the definitive proof that this move is legal but obviously Kobe knows the rule better than the Sixersrule guy.
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Re: The Kobe Step Through 

Post#124 » by Dr Aki » Sun Mar 1, 2009 7:06 am

edit
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Re: The Kobe Step Through 

Post#125 » by casey » Sun Mar 1, 2009 7:07 am

sixerswillrule wrote:There's also about a dozen people in this thread that have agreed with me.

There were a few early on. They haven't been posting in the last 5 pages or so. I wonder why. You've made 24 posts in this thread now, and haven't made a single reference to the actual rules. All you've been saying is that it's "common sense" and "everybody knows it" and showed videos of players doing it the way you think is legal. None of those are anywhere close to legit arguments. You're basically saying that you're right because you're right, and that's proof that you're right as you're right because you're right. Not gonna work bud. For something to be illegal it has to be against the rules.

I think your first post sums up your opinion pretty well, "You can't take your pivot foot off the ground with your other foot still on the ground." And I think the rules pretty clearly state that you are incorrect, "If the player raises his pivot off the floor, he must pass or attempt a field goal before the foot is returned to the floor." What is not clear about that?
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Re: The Kobe Step Through 

Post#126 » by Dr Aki » Sun Mar 1, 2009 7:46 am

wow, how can a guy keep posting when theres so much evidence against him?

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the sequence goes:

left foot, right foot, pump fake, spin on left foot, leaves left foot, jumps off right foot, shoot

the left foot acts as a pivot? accept?

the rule states that:

Section VIII—Pivot

a. A pivot takes place when a player, who is holding the ball, steps once or more than once in any direction with the same foot, with the other foot (pivot foot) in contact with the floor.
b. If the player wishes to dribble after a pivot, the ball must be out of his hand before the pivot foot is raised off the floor. If the player raises his pivot off the floor, he must pass or attempt a field goal before the foot is returned to the floor.

If he fails to follow these guidelines, he has committed a traveling violation.


now, answer these questions yourself.

why is the left foot the pivot? ask yourself that, it is because his right foot is the one he uses to "STEP ONCE OR MORE IN ANY DIRECTION, with the same foot, with the other foot (which, in this example, is kobe's left foot) in contact with the floor.

If the player raises his pivot off the floor, he must pass or attempt a field goal before the foot is returned to the floor.

is kobe passing or shooting? the answer is yes, kobe is shooting

has his pivot foot returned to the ground before he shoots it? the answer is no

is it a travel? the answer is no because his left foot has not returned to the ground, it is if it has returned to the ground, thus establishing the right foot as the pivot.

go and learn some fundamentals, a travel is three steps because your initial step establishes your pivot foot, the second step is the one you need to take unless you enjoy playing basketball on one leg

AND HERE'S THE IMPORTANT PART

WHEN AND ONLY WHEN, YOU LIFT YOUR LEFT FOOT (1st step, pivot foot) UP AND PLACE IT BACK DOWN (ie, a third step), IT IS THEN YOUR RIGHT FOOT IS ESTABLISHED AS THE PIVOT FOOT


or else you would have players being called for travels while taking 2 steps, simply because they're jumping off their second step and as you call it:

sixerswillrule wrote:Picking up pivot foot = change in pivot foot = travel.


ask yourself when you go for a layup

first step, left foot

second step, right foot

when you lift off with your left foot, does that then establish your right foot as a pivot foot?

and according to your logic is therefore a travel? now think why that's wrong

even an idiot can see you've only taken 2 steps

dude, everyone knows it, its common sense
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Re: The Kobe Step Through 

Post#127 » by shaggyZ » Sun Mar 1, 2009 10:10 am

I can't believe this many people don't know what they are talking about. It is really just common sense that this is a travel. The sixers dude is so right but there's a bunch of know it all realgm 12 year old dorks that think they know but have no idea. I'll say this one more time then i'm done b/c you are the most thick skulled people i've ever met. Say someone is posting up down low. They CANNOT pivot around on their left foot, step through with their right foot and then take their left foot off the ground and shoot off their right foot. ABSOLUTELY ILLEGAL. Post players would do that almost every time because do you realize how much ground they could cover with that move? It would be absolutely unguardable. I can't believe this is even a 9 page argument. You couldn't be more wrong. I am 1000% sure. It is switching your pivot foot. If this was legal, there would be no way to ever double team someone and trap them b/c they could just step out of it everytime by doing this move. You guys are so wrong it's unbelieveable. My head is about to explode. Go to any of the team boards and make a topic about this and ask if this move is legal, see what people say. Good lord.
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Re: The Kobe Step Through 

Post#128 » by garcia3 » Sun Mar 1, 2009 12:58 pm

marcroboy wrote:Can't believe no one posted this video in 9 pages..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzrGyi6g ... re=related


He jumped with the non-pivot foot while the pivot foot was off the ground. Not saying it's the definitive proof that this move is legal but obviously Kobe knows the rule better than the Sixersrule guy.


hahaha [/thread]

not only is it in slow-motion, it is also broke down in 4 easy and fundamental steps, and that is EXACTLY the same move Kobe did on Chandler of the Knicks

Sixerswillrule, after watching that video are you really going to keep arguing it was a travel, mean common man, it is om to be wrong sometimes, we are not perfect, its ok to admit it.
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Re: The Kobe Step Through 

Post#129 » by Dr Aki » Sun Mar 1, 2009 2:05 pm

edit. damnit, i keep double posting
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Re: The Kobe Step Through 

Post#130 » by Dr Aki » Sun Mar 1, 2009 2:10 pm

goddamn, its like when reading comprehension goes wrong

the pivot foot is established when the other foot touches the floor, not when the other foot is lifted off the ground

i establish my left foot as a pivot by stepping with my right foot

A pivot takes place when a player, who is holding the ball, steps once or more than once in any direction with the same foot, with the other foot (pivot foot) in contact with the floor.


i can therefore move my right foot in any direction, any number of times (jab step)

the moment i lift my left (pivot) foot, does not constitute a changing of my pivot foot to my right foot UNLESS MY LEFT FOOT TOUCHES THE FLOOR AGAIN

If the player raises his pivot off the floor, he must pass or attempt a field goal before the foot is returned to the floor.


how hard is that to understand??
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Re: The Kobe Step Through 

Post#131 » by jaymeister15 » Sun Mar 1, 2009 2:11 pm

marcroboy wrote:Can't believe no one posted this video in 9 pages..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzrGyi6g ... re=related


He jumped with the non-pivot foot while the pivot foot was off the ground. Not saying it's the definitive proof that this move is legal but obviously Kobe knows the rule better than the Sixersrule guy.



Thank you.

How much more proof do you need sixersrule?

Finally going to admit you may have been wrong, or are you just going to keep going on like this?
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Re: The Kobe Step Through 

Post#132 » by jaymeister15 » Sun Mar 1, 2009 2:12 pm

shaggyZ wrote:I can't believe this many people don't know what they are talking about. It is really just common sense that this is a travel. The sixers dude is so right but there's a bunch of know it all realgm 12 year old dorks that think they know but have no idea. I'll say this one more time then i'm done b/c you are the most thick skulled people i've ever met. Say someone is posting up down low. They CANNOT pivot around on their left foot, step through with their right foot and then take their left foot off the ground and shoot off their right foot. ABSOLUTELY ILLEGAL. Post players would do that almost every time because do you realize how much ground they could cover with that move? It would be absolutely unguardable. I can't believe this is even a 9 page argument. You couldn't be more wrong. I am 1000% sure. It is switching your pivot foot. If this was legal, there would be no way to ever double team someone and trap them b/c they could just step out of it everytime by doing this move. You guys are so wrong it's unbelieveable. My head is about to explode. Go to any of the team boards and make a topic about this and ask if this move is legal, see what people say. Good lord.


lol

A) Read the rules

B) watch the video posted by marcroboy.
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Re: The Kobe Step Through 

Post#133 » by Undrafted Rook » Sun Mar 1, 2009 2:45 pm

marcroboy wrote:Can't believe no one posted this video in 9 pages..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzrGyi6g ... re=related


He jumped with the non-pivot foot while the pivot foot was off the ground. Not saying it's the definitive proof that this move is legal but obviously Kobe knows the rule better than the Sixersrule guy.


Kobe travels on that video, just not in the move in question. When he starts the to drive he first jabs with his right and then uses it as his pivot foot. That move used to be one my biggest beefs with the NBA, luckily they cracked down on that. Now you see it used more in Europe which is a total disgrace if you ask me.

I don't know why you still argue about this, but in short:
If you jump off of two feet (or semi-two feet in some cases) - it's not a travel anywhere.
If you clearly take a step and jump with one foot - It looks like a travel to most, me included, but reading the rulebook word for word it's not. It's called a travel almost always under FIBA, and I've seen it called and not called in the NBA. Can't say about College.
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Re: The Kobe Step Through 

Post#134 » by maggi mee » Sun Mar 1, 2009 3:45 pm

sixerswillrule has reached legend status.
threads like this are why i spend time on realgm.
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Re: The Kobe Step Through 

Post#135 » by sixerswillrule » Sun Mar 1, 2009 4:28 pm

Telling me Kobe travels doesn't tell me anything. He traveled twice on that play. Traveling is the most allowed violation in the league. As for the rule, I stand that it's not specific enough, and that what it states is referring to jumping off the floor completely. That you must shoot or pass before returning to the ground.

And what is that, like the 9th person answering me that has that sig?

ask yourself when you go for a layup

first step, left foot

second step, right foot

when you lift off with your left foot, does that then establish your right foot as a pivot foot?

and according to your logic is therefore a travel? now think why that's wrong


When you go up for a layup, that's one motion. You're allowed two steps(or seemingly three in today's NBA). But when you're pivoting, you've stopped already. There is no more motion. You're not allowed anymore steps. Picking up your pivot foot and jumping off your other foot is an extra step.

shaggyZ wrote:I can't believe this many people don't know what they are talking about. It is really just common sense that this is a travel. The sixers dude is so right but there's a bunch of know it all realgm 12 year old dorks that think they know but have no idea. I'll say this one more time then i'm done b/c you are the most thick skulled people i've ever met. Say someone is posting up down low. They CANNOT pivot around on their left foot, step through with their right foot and then take their left foot off the ground and shoot off their right foot. ABSOLUTELY ILLEGAL. Post players would do that almost every time because do you realize how much ground they could cover with that move? It would be absolutely unguardable. I can't believe this is even a 9 page argument. You couldn't be more wrong. I am 1000% sure. It is switching your pivot foot. If this was legal, there would be no way to ever double team someone and trap them b/c they could just step out of it everytime by doing this move. You guys are so wrong it's unbelieveable. My head is about to explode. Go to any of the team boards and make a topic about this and ask if this move is legal, see what people say. Good lord.


[/thread]
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Re: The Kobe Step Through 

Post#136 » by CharlieMurphy » Sun Mar 1, 2009 4:36 pm

ShaggyZ and Sixerswillrule, guys seriously just read the rule. It's been posted several times. As far as anyone who can read for concepts is concerned this thread is over. The Kobe spin move on the Knicks is not a travel. A player can establish a pivot foot and pick said pivot foot up as long as he attempts a shot or passes the ball before that pivot foot returns to the ground.

You can continue to argue and put "[/thread]" but you'll still be wrong and further make a fool of yourself.
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Re: The Kobe Step Through 

Post#137 » by torontopistons » Sun Mar 1, 2009 4:46 pm

Undrafted Rook wrote:
marcroboy wrote:Can't believe no one posted this video in 9 pages..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzrGyi6g ... re=related


He jumped with the non-pivot foot while the pivot foot was off the ground. Not saying it's the definitive proof that this move is legal but obviously Kobe knows the rule better than the Sixersrule guy.


Kobe travels on that video, just not in the move in question. When he starts the to drive he first jabs with his right and then uses it as his pivot foot. That move used to be one my biggest beefs with the NBA, luckily they cracked down on that. Now you see it used more in Europe which is a total disgrace if you ask me.


He never travels in that video. He establishes his left foot as the pivot before he jabs with his right (which is not a travel; if it was, the jab step would never be allowed). He then proceeds to drive before stopping for the pump fake, which stops his dribble and sets his left foot as the pivot. He spins and leaps off his other foot. That's not a travel. It's been said a million times before in this thread; as long as his pivot foot doesn't touch the ground, he's not travelling.
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Re: The Kobe Step Through 

Post#138 » by casey » Sun Mar 1, 2009 5:30 pm

sixerswillrule wrote:As for the rule, I stand that it's not specific enough, and that what it states is referring to jumping off the floor completely. That you must shoot or pass before returning to the ground.

How do you figure? It certainly doesn't say that. Alll it says is that if you pick up your pivot foot you must shoot or pass the ball before it returns to the floor. There's no reason to assume that it is saying anything about what your other foot is doing.

sixerswillrule wrote:[/thread]

lol, so one other person is coming on using the "it's common sense" argument, and that's [/thread]? That's not an argument. A rule needs to be in the rule book for it to be a rule. You guys need to understand that.

torontopistons wrote:He never travels in that video. He establishes his left foot as the pivot before he jabs with his right (which is not a travel; if it was, the jab step would never be allowed). He then proceeds to drive before stopping for the pump fake, which stops his dribble and sets his left foot as the pivot. He spins and leaps off his other foot. That's not a travel. It's been said a million times before in this thread; as long as his pivot foot doesn't touch the ground, he's not travelling.

Naw, that first move is a travel, but only barely. The ball has to leave his hand when he's starting to dribble before his pivot foot is picked up. So he did travel, but not on the move that this thread is talking about.
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Re: The Kobe Step Through 

Post#139 » by sixerswillrule » Sun Mar 1, 2009 5:52 pm

Like I said, it's not specific enough.

What you need to understand is the reason why this move is hardly ever used. Because if it were legal, it should always be used. But it's not. Read what shaggy said. Just think about it. He's absolutely right. You would gain ridiculous advantages from using this move. And not what Kobe did. He doesn't gain much by doing that. Double teams would become useless. Most players would become impossible to stop in the low post. But that is not the case. And it has nothing to do with this move feeling "unnatural"...
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Re: The Kobe Step Through 

Post#140 » by casey » Sun Mar 1, 2009 6:34 pm

sixerswillrule wrote:Like I said, it's not specific enough.

All rules are specific enough. All you have to go by is the rules. What they say is law. And nowhere in the rules does it say that this is illegal. If it doesn't say it's illegal, then it's legal. "If the player raises his pivot off the floor, he must pass or attempt a field goal before the foot is returned to the floor."

sixerswillrule wrote:What you need to understand is the reason why this move is hardly ever used. Because if it were legal, it should always be used. But it's not. Read what shaggy said. Just think about it. He's absolutely right. You would gain ridiculous advantages from using this move. And not what Kobe did. He doesn't gain much by doing that. Double teams would become useless. Most players would become impossible to stop in the low post. But that is not the case. And it has nothing to do with this move feeling "unnatural"...

It's really not as big of a deal as you're making it out to be. I've done it, I've seen it done. What Kobe did is the move. It's not that huge of an advantage.
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