OT: Officer Crowley

[rsceltic34]

Question?


Why doesnt Gates stop pissing and moaning like a lil bitch that he has surely proven he is.

Man up and get the f*** over it. Ive been arrested before for insulting a white officer and im black. Did i bitch and moan and cry racism no! Show some respect for authority and this would never have happened. I dont care who you are black professor, or white drop out, get up in the face of a police officer, talk about the mans mother, you will get arrested game, set, match,......Crowley!

[x34truth34x]

The cop did the right thing, IMHO. This is everything I didn't like about higher education rolled into one incident. You have a certain procedure to follow when there has been a break in called in. You HAVE to check ID. You can't just "assume" because the guy looks like an old man that he doesn't have partner in there holding someone at gunpoint.

The cop went EXACTLY by the book. Even the arrest was by the book. He was cursing and swearing at the cop and that for any man is disorderly conduct. You can be disorderly in a wheel chair. And shame on the supporters of Gates in this thread.

Think about what would happen if Gates was being kidnapped and the cop went away because some dude was just holding a cane.. This hurts Obama too IMHO. If anyone acted stupidly - it was Obama. Following procedure is not stupid.

Pete

Hahahaha yes!!! higher education!!! whoooo learning!!! knowing the law!!! knowing how the world works how horrible!!!

In fact swearing at a police officer is not disorderly conduct and the supreme court has backed that up many times.

Why do you all seem to think that a person who doesn't cooperate with the police is a bad person? The police are not on your side, you have an obligation not answer questions from the police or be helpful or cooperate in any way, not only is it in your own best interests it is in the best interests of everyone else in this country.

Stop treating police officers as some golden god like deities, the police do not have your best interests at mind especially if you are black. Don't answer their questions, don't ever consent to a search and certainly don't show them id.

[x34truth34x]

Question?


Why doesnt Gates stop pissing and moaning like a lil bitch that he has surely proven he is.

Man up and get the f*** over it. Ive been arrested before for insulting an officer did i bitch and moan no! Show some respect for authority and this would never have happened. I dont care who you are black professor, or white drop out, get up in the face of a police officer, talk about the mans mother, you will get arrested game, set, match,......Crowley!

Where does this notion come from? Are you insane? Is he bitching for standing up for his constitutional rights?

IT IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW TO SWEAR TO A POLICE OFFICER. It is not against the law to insult a police officer's mother, and it especially not against the law to do this in your own home that the police will not leave.

You're all fascists.

I understand that racial profiling exists and there are some racist cops out there, but isn't it entirely possible that African-Americans commit more crimes than other races?

I have to respond to this. Are you kidding me?

Do you think black people are just genetically predisposed to commit crimes or something? What is your argument? I would think it would be pretty obvious that black people commit more crimes because they live in poverty at a much higher rate than white people, have less access to education, health care, food, etc and face instiutional racism daily.

[rsceltic34]

Where does this notion come from? Are you insane? Is he bitching for standing up for his constitutional rights?

IT IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW TO SWEAR TO A POLICE OFFICER. It is not against the law to insult a police officer's mother, and it especially not against the law to do this in your own home that the police will not leave.

You're all fascists.[/quote]


Ok buddy call in a robbery at your house then when the police show up to investigate get up in their face and start insulting them even after showing your id to prove that you live there, 9 out of 10 times your getting arrested.

[x34truth34x]

Where does this notion come from? Are you insane? Is he bitching for standing up for his constitutional rights?

IT IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW TO SWEAR TO A POLICE OFFICER. It is not against the law to insult a police officer's mother, and it especially not against the law to do this in your own home that the police will not leave.

You're all fascists.

Ok buddy call in a robbery at your house then when the police show up to investigate get up in their face and start insulting them even after showing your id to prove that you live there, 9 out of 10 times your getting arrested.[/quote]

And nine out of 10 times you're not committing a crime and any competent lawyer will get the case thrown out.

Do you not understand the law? Do you somehow think a police officer should arrest someone for hurting their feelings?

[rsceltic34]

xx34truth34x wrote::
"And nine out of 10 times you're not committing a crime and any competent lawyer will get the case thrown out.

Do you not understand the law? Do you somehow think a police officer should arrest someone for hurting their feelings?"



No but getting up in the face of a police officer sure seems like a threat to me. If you were a police officer you would let someone get in your face just like i thought your a b****. You have no idea what anyone is capable of especially being a cop i woudlnt let anyone get within arms length of me especially an angry man God forbid he goes for my gun or has a gun on him.

[x34truth34x]

xx34truth34x wrote::
"And nine out of 10 times you're not committing a crime and any competent lawyer will get the case thrown out.

Do you not understand the law? Do you somehow think a police officer should arrest someone for hurting their feelings?"



No but getting up in the face of a police officer sure seems like a threat to me. If you were a police officer you would let someone get in your face just like i thought your a b****. You have no idea what anyone is capable of especially being a cop i woudlnt let anyone get within arms length of me especially an angry man God forbid he goes for my gun or has a gun on him.

"getting up in someone's face" (Which has not been even alleged by the officer) is not a threat or assault. The police officer is free to leave if he feels threatened by behavior that is not against the law.

So a person who is calm and does not escalate situations is a bitch? Do you think police officers or human beings in general should be going out of their way to prove their manliness if they feel insulted? I'd like more bitches on my police deparments then.

[sweatdog]

Everyone says the officer should have diffused the situation.

He did. He put cuffs on the only person that was acting out of line. And while swearing at and insulting an officer isn't exactly a crime, hindering a crime scene investigation must be. I wont go pull up a bunch of law.com definitions because my common sense serves well enough.

For everyone who thinks Gates was less wrong than the officer, then please for your own enlightenment go give any cop a verbal walloping and come back and post the results. The idea that cops are too quick to arrest for things like verbal abuse isn't the only issue here - Gates went beyond it by being so difficult and throwing a wrench into the investigation.

[Spin Move]

Well since I believe I am on the only actual criminal attorney on the board I will chime in, with that said I am only licensed in AZ and not Mass. so I cannot speak for certain laws or rulings by Mass courts.

I will say in general disorderly conduct is a victim crime, IE someone has to have there peace disturbed for someone to be guilty of it. In AZ a police officer who is on duty cannot be a victim for disorderly conduct because it is there job to seek out disturbance of the peace, so rules the AZ supreme court, I cannot say that it is for sure the same in Mass.

When dealing with a large group of any type of people, cops, lawyers, blacks, whites, mexicans, the unemployed, lakers fans, it is important to realize that many of them are good people many of them are bad people and some are in between, similerly there are going to be some good cops, some bad cops some racist cops and some cops who are shinning beacons of integrity and others who are corrupt as hell.

With that said, most people who seek jobs of authority don't like that authority questioned, IE cops, judges, politicion etc, all will tend not to like it when their authority is questioned becuase for many of them that authority is part of their ego. If you talk back to a cop in most cases you are more likley to face higher charge requests from the officer in their report.

I can tell you in AZ short of threating an officer its not a crime to curse at them, I was not there for this incedent and don't know what happend, .

I want to point something out though, the critical factor here is at what point did Mr. Gates show Mr. Crowley an ID? At that point No matter how much of a jerk Mr. Gates was the officer should have left, the minute that he saw an ID with that address on it he no longer had a reason to belive Mr. Gates was guilty of any crime.

If Mr. Gates refused to show ID until he was arrested the officer was in the right. If Mr. Gates showed ID, the officer continued to question him and Mr. Gates acted like a huge ignormamous and told the cop off, Mr. Gates is in the right.


Cops are not allowed to arrest people for being rude to them in most places, I am not a cambridge lawyer, I have not reviewed the Cambridge city codes or mass. state laws so I can't say for total certainty, but in most of America if gates showed ID the arrest was bogus.


From what I have seen which is by no means conclusive I would guess the cop crossed the line after Mr. Gates acted like a giant ass, if the reports that I have read are correct saying gates did show ID, he should not have been arrested.

[rsceltic34]

"getting up in someone's face" (Which has not been even alleged by the officer) is not a threat or assault. The police officer is free to leave if he feels threatened by behavior that is not against the law.

So a person who is calm and does not escalate situations is a bitch? Do you think police officers or human beings in general should be going out of their way to prove their manliness if they feel insulted? I'd like more bitches on my police deparments then.

Your police dept would not have many officers left they would all be getting assaulted or killed for being calm and letting people "get in their faces". And its not proving your manliness if your protecting yourself from a possible threat and yes i consider that a threat. I wouldnt let ANYONE get in my face. What happens almost everytime before physical violence? Someone gets in a lil too close for comfort while yelling and screaming.

[sunshinekids99]

The problem is not the officer arriving on the scene. The problem is the officer arresting someone in their own house.

Not if your an a-hole. Crowley claims he warned Gates many times to lower his voice and just talk to him. Then Gates followed Crowley outside still screaming at him. Crowley then showed him his cuffs telling him to knock it off...again Gates continue to be a grade A douche bag. So he got arrested. That pompous ass got what he deserved.

Even if Crowley's story is true, Crowley should have just continued walking. There's no need to threaten the guy with arrest like that, it only escalates the situation. You don't calm an angry man by telling him you're going to take him to jail.

Really? Cause I'd like to think I would shut my mouth. This whole thing would have been avoided in Gates just answered the questions and gave him the ID.

[bballcool34]

^Or if Crowley left peacefully once he learned that Gates did in fact own the house...

[jfs1000d]

Some people can't say a bad things about cops. I don't care if you know someone who is a cop or have a family member, not all cops are excellent public servants. Some are "D##S. Good cops make mistakes, and looking at this in the most positive light, Crowley arrested the guy incorrectly.

Gates is probably an arrogant jerk. Crowley was probably on a power trip as beat cops tend to be. The DA dropped all the charges, which means, there was no crime there, which means...gates didn't do anything criminal and shouldn't have been arrested.

If the cop can't take being called names and insulted, don't be a cop. It comes with the territory.I don't give leeway to public servants. They are public employees and their salaries are paid from my tax money. Be a better cop. That's all I ask.

Gates is a jerk however.

[Fencer reregistered]

http://blogs.masslawyersweekly.com/news ... es-arrest/

In 1976, the Supreme Judicial Court in Commonwealth v. Richards held that the law cannot be applied to a defendant’s language, even if it is offensive and abusive, unless it constitutes “fighting words which by their very utterance tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace.”


While the report refers to Gates’ conduct as “loud and tumultuous,” there does not appear to be anything there that would allow for a conclusion that they were “fighting words.”


The SJC has also said that for a defendant in Gates’ situation to be found guilty, his actions must have been reasonably likely to affect the public in a place to which the public had access. Where much, if not all, of the alleged conduct occurred on Gates’ property, it appears that legal requirement would prove fatal to the DA’s case.

[Joyeuse]

Spin Move: Thanks for the analysis! Makes sense that they'd drop the charge if they don't believe they can prove disorderly conduct.

[e in boulder]

Regardless of whether or not Gates was being an @ss...

Would Cambridge police had arrested an obviously upper class white intellectual for not cooperating?

I don't think so.

In fact, if a white professor was trying to get into his own place ... I doubt the cops would have been called in the first place. To say Boston doesn't have some serious racism is saying you're an ignorant idiot.

[Fencer reregistered]

I'm appalled at how many people -- not necessarily in this thread -- think the cop was following "proper procedure" by arresting Gates for a crime he did not commit.

[Cyclical]

Says a lot that this topic is the most viewed and commentated on on a sports page.

[DEEP3CL]

I agree with sam_I_am, the easiest thing to do would've been to just simply show ID for said property Anything the officer did from that point on is where you draw accusations from, barring there are any to begin with.

If Crowley wasn't right to arrest Gates for what he did after showing ID, he wasn't right to arrest him at all.

That's true Fence, I'll admit I wasn't fully aware of all the circumstances that happened until I read an article on the situation. My comment was merely from a point of that would've been the easiest way to avoid conflict.

Bottom line communication broke down on both sides, I'm quite sure both sides could've been more clear on the situation.

[Banks2Pierce]

Regardless of whether or not Gates was being an @ss...

Would Cambridge police had arrested an obviously upper class white intellectual for not cooperating?

I don't think so.

In fact, if a white professor was trying to get into his own place ... I doubt the cops would have been called in the first place. To say Boston doesn't have some serious racism is saying you're an ignorant idiot.

Wow. what a post. You don't think a white guy would've been arrested for acting like a maniac? Serious racism? I don't doubt there is some closet racism, but to call it "serious" is a joke. It's not any worse or better than any other place.