Butler calls out Hoiberg / Update pg 33: KC releases negative report on Jimmy

[bennjuiced34]

I like the end result.

Good cop (Fred), bad cop (Jimmy) works for me.

I think they'll make it work. A little adversity brings people together in the work place.

We're at .600 with awkward dysfunction and on-court confusion.

I said it a year ago, but making Jimmy the clear leader would benefit the team. Rose and Noah can't be the guys anymore; they're too broken. They're still good emotional leaders with high ceilings, but on-the-court, nobody can match Jimmy's intensity on both ends.

It's sports, man. Gotta pass that torch. Rose was still talking like he's the man at the beginning of the season: Max contract, best is yet to come, etc.

Jimmy put that **** to rest today. He's the guy who decides who gets the big shot from now on.

Everything I read, it was a jab at Fred but it seemed like Fred was just the safe guy to criticize. If Jimmy called out some of the vets on this team, like Rose, that would really screw team morale and locker-room dynamic. But in many ways, Fred was the perfect guy to handle this and perhaps get a good message across.

Fred can't just be the good cop though. He has to be able to play both roles. The good cop needs to be Derrick or Jo. Jimmy obviously doesn't give a crap what his teammates think of his leadership style and isn't going to change his ways, so we need someone to balance that out.

[musiqsoulchild]

I personally think that the issue about him being fundamentally correct is a FAR bigger issue than him commenting on in publicly. Seriously, he said people are outright blowing off coaching assignments. That's really not cool, even if completely unsurprising.

If its true, and sure looks that way watching the team, this trend continuing - the same trend that ended Thibs - could submarine Fred's whole tenure.

Even for those that believe this is a throw away transition year, all the young players who are the next generation of this team, to whatever extent that even makes sense to say, are watching how the team is responding to Fred. And if he doesn't get buy in now from the vets, its a real bad precedent for these young players to change it up, even after the roster changes.

And right now its actually the young players, outside Doug, who are failing the most and playing without any sense of direction.

The issue with your belief is that you are ascribing cause and effect to Jimmy's "leadership" and calling out of his coach and teammates.

So, if we win 50 games this season was it because Jimmy chose this "leadership style"? Coz, I know thats what you will say.

What is we lose tonight? Then what -----does it mean nobody cares about playing hard? Or about poor Jimmy's leadership chops?

He can "lead" all he wants --- the rest of the team is capably moving on WITH HELP from Jimmy's impressive play and production to the playoffs.

Absence of proof is NOT proof of absence.

[HomoSapien]

Stacy ripping into butler on sirius.

Talked about how there were fist fights daily in practice when he played but media didnt know about it. If they have a problem, they kept it in house. Said Butler isnt a curry, lebron, etc who have at least won an mvp and titles. That Jimmy is only a MIP player. Says the stuff Jimmy says will divide a locker room and that he needs to be quite.

That's not really ripping, but Stacey is right.

Every time I reread his statement, it feels rather tame (aside for calling Hoiberg out by name). He even says that he needs to be coached harder at times, so it's not as if he's setting himself above the rest of the team.

[DRoseCantStop]

I'm not buying it. This team has done a lot of talking pre/post-game and the results have been underwhelming. The Bulls will probably look the same as before tonight.

[Ice Man]

#Butler: "I explained my opinion and what I'm gonna do to change things here. Everybody accepted what I had to say."

Wow!

I take back what I said about this issue being over. Jimmy just said he's taking over this team. Get on his road or get off the Bulls. The FO/organization has gotta either back him on that, or trade him.

[musiqsoulchild]

This is because he hasnt been bestowed that power by his teammates.

He says he has.

#Butler: "People want me to lead. You take my leadership for what it is. Some people may like it, some people don’t."

He needs to be bestowed the power by Fred if he doesn't have it.

Because right now the team's style mimics the up and down low energy inconsistency of Pau and Rose.

If it mimicked how Jimmy shows up, we'd probably be ahead of Cleveland right now.

If all the "people" want him to lead and ONLY "some people like it" and "some people dont like it".......

then Math is not with you and Jimmy on this one.

Sounds exactly like what he said. Some guys dont care; some guys gave him the time of their day. If he continues calling his teammates out in the media, then I suspect the number of people who like his leadership will grow smaller and smaller.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Ive always looked at both sides when talking about the player and the team. Yeah two wrongs dont make a right but there is something that the Bulls have to pay attention to.

THEIR STAR PLAYER IS HIGHLY FRUSTRATED.

That in itself is enough to start paying attention. I've said it time and time again, the moment that Jimmy gives up because he is frustrated with this group, the season is over.

Jimmy should have never made the comments to the media. That is abundantly clear. But also on the flipside of it, it shouldn't go on deaf ears either.

If Fred changes nothing.
If the team gives the same nonchalant effort.
If Gar does nothing.

Even after everything Jimmy has already said, what do you think is the next logical outcome? Someone will start quitting.

[dumbell78]

Jimmy trying to be like Mike in every facet now. Maybe he read the Jordan Rules and liked what MJ did around his teammates and coaches. His approach was completely idiotic but I really cant fault the message. Just wish he kept it in house, like most leaders do.

[bennjuiced34]

Stacy ripping into butler on sirius.

Talked about how there were fist fights daily in practice when he played but media didnt know about it. If they have a problem, they kept it in house. Said Butler isnt a curry, lebron, etc who have at least won an mvp and titles. That Jimmy is only a MIP player. Says the stuff Jimmy says will divide a locker room and that he needs to be quite.

That's not really ripping, but Stacey is right.

Every time I reread his statement, it feels rather tame (aside for calling Hoiberg out by name). He even says that he needs to be coached harder at times, so it's not as if he's setting himself above the rest of the team.

Of course he said that at the end. It's called self preservation. Heap a bunch of blame on everyone else and then include yourself in that mix.

Jimmy went to the media. That in itself is setting himself about the team, at least that's how I'd perceive it as his teammate. If a player is going to speak like that about the team to the media, he or she better be damn sure that the coaches and their teammates are going to listen and respect them for it. Jimmy spoke out of turn and threw his coach under the bus. That's why this became a big deal.

[musiqsoulchild]

#Butler: "I explained my opinion and what I'm gonna do to change things here. Everybody accepted what I had to say."

Wow!

I take back what I said about this issue being over. Jimmy just said he's taking over this team. Get on his road or get off the Bulls. The FO/organization has gotta either back him on that, or trade him.

Its also ENTIRELY possible that people agree with him on what he had to say --- precisely because they already know its the right thing to do.

If I shout from the top of the mountain top ---- " You have to dress up warm in Chicago winters" and I say it VERY VERY LOUDLY via Twitter and the Tribune......then all the people will accept what I have to say. They'll just wonder what the hell is wrong with me.

Thats whats happening with Jimmy now....I am sure some of the older guys are chuckling at this whole episode. This is like the first few young girls that start dancing early on Friday night in the hot club in town.

Its 11:00 PM. The night (season) is still young.

[HomoSapien]

I'm sure this was posted already, but:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/678996228508688385[/tweet]

Great!

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/678997898747506688[/tweet]

Not the most glowing endorsement.

[Nucky Thompson]

Ha...I posted in July that Hoiberg/Hoiball would be a failure. Joke of a coach with a a gimmick system.

[Rerisen]

So, if we win 50 games this season was it because Jimmy chose this "leadership style"? Coz, I know thats what you will say.[

The team is on pace for about 50 right now, that's not good, its what they won last year.

If they win 50, he failed, and Fred failed. We could have kept Thibs and won 50 again. The idea was changing the coach was going to fix things, an improvement, not keep it the same.

What is we lose tonight? Then what -----does it mean nobody cares about playing hard? Or about poor Jimmy's leadership chops?

We shouldn't lose to Brooklyn at home, if we do, then Jimmy might well have just added to the chaos.

But if we see a sudden - and most important - consistent change from this point forward, then he might just have done some good.

I tend to not be too optimistic his outburst will make a lot of difference because I think most of this team's problems are talent and roster balance based.

[DRoseCantStop]

Ha...I posted in July that Hoiberg/Hoiball would be a failure. Joke of a coach with a a gimmick system.

I still think he turns it around though. This roster really isn't ideal for his offense.

[Rerisen]

If all the "people" want him to lead and ONLY "some people like it" and "some people dont like it".......

then Math is not with you and Jimmy on this one.

Sounds exactly like what he said. Some guys dont care; some guys gave him the time of their day. If he continues calling his teammates out in the media, then I suspect the number of people who like his leadership will grow smaller and smaller.

Then players need to be traded. And not Jimmy Butler.

The evidence for that is already here 2 years in the making, before Butler opened his mouth.

[dumbell78]

I'm sure this was posted already, but:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/678996228508688385[/tweet]

Great!

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/678997898747506688[/tweet]

Not the most glowing endorsement.

[tomacorandom]

Holy tweet spam from K.J. Johnson this morning.

#Butler walks right off the court after shootaround, says doesn't regret what he said. Says he has to lead better. Says raw emotion.

#Butler: "I know we have what it takes to win here."

#Butler said he had "good talk" with Hoiberg. Said some people may like his leadership style and some may not.

#Butler said Hoiberg addressed the issue in front of the team. "You can't hide the elephant in the room. Today was a good day."

#Butler on Hoiberg: "He doesn't have to change who he is as a person."

#Butler said he's learning to be a leader. Said this is first team he's tried to be a leader on.

#Players very rarely speak first at shootaround. Coaches almost always do. Butler beelined right to group of reporters.

#Very strong media session from Butler. Only 2 eyebrow raisers: Claimed wasn't calling out Hoiberg. Said teammates accepting his leadership.

#Hoiberg said there are things he can do better, that players can do better. Met with Butler for hour Sunday. Said he wasn't hurt by comments.

#Hoiberg said he can demand more from players. Said this is opportunity for growth as team.

#Hoiberg: "I know how passionate Jimmy Butler is. I think he has the tools to be a good leader."

#Hoiberg:"I know emotions are part of this game. I was in it as a player for 10 years. I saw it in a front office.We learn from the comments"

#Hoiberg defending his style: "Look, there are plenty of times in this gym behind closed doors where we have some pretty heated talks."

#Hoiberg said he thinks Butler's leadership style can work: "And I know Jimmy had some good talks with some of the leaders on this team."

#Butler on Hoiberg in team meeting: "In that meeting he said that he does have to hold everybody accountable. I have to help him with that."

#Butler: "People want me to lead. You take my leadership for what it is. Some people may like it, some people don’t."

#Butler: "I was never calling out my coach. I think he’s a hell of a coach. I think he’s done great through these 25 games."

#Butler: "I know every play at every position. I study the playbook like that. I gotta let players know what they're supposed to be doing."

(my comment: shouldn't all the players already know what they are supposed to be doing? And it's the PG who is supposed to organize the team on the floor, isn't it?)

#Butler: "Now that we've addressed it, everybody knows what they have to do. Before, everybody was maybe going through the motions."

#Butler on if he accepts Hoiberg's O: "I have to be because he signed here for 5 years. I signed here for 5 years. We have to make it work."

#Butler: "I had more things to say to people individually. Fred did the majority of talking when we were in the film room."

#Butler: "I explained my opinion and what I'm gonna do to change things here. Everybody accepted what I had to say."

K.C.'s last tweet:

#Will say this about Butler: He's trying to will himself to become leader through work ethic, media comments.

Thank you for the post fella! n1

I don't like what Butler did but I agree with him. He is a hardworking guy and lazyness hurts him

[bennjuiced34]

So, if we win 50 games this season was it because Jimmy chose this "leadership style"? Coz, I know thats what you will say.[

The team is on pace for about 50 right now, that's not good, its what they won last year.

If they win 50, he failed, and Fred failed. We could have kept Thibs and won 50 again.

What is we lose tonight? Then what -----does it mean nobody cares about playing hard? Or about poor Jimmy's leadership chops?

We shouldn't lose to Brooklyn at home, if we do, then Jimmy might well have just added to the chaos.

But if we see a sudden - and most important - consistent change from this point forward, then he might just have done some good.

I tend to not be too optimistic his outburst will make a lot of difference because I think most of this team's problems are talent and roster balance based.

This doesn't make sense to me though because when we bring effort, especially against good teams, we usually win. It's the lackadaisical effort and focus against bad teams that is our downfall.

When this team is locked in, they are really freaking good. No doubt we have some flaws in our roster, but there is quite a bit of talent here.

That's why we are so maddeningly frustrating. Because we all see how good we can be and then we consistently throw up clunkers, which is a attributed to a lack of effort. It's also why Jimmy is pissed off because he sees the talent too.

[Nucky Thompson]

Also, bashing Hoiberg doesn't have to be a re-call on Thibs, yeah Thibs time might have run his course here, but we definitely hired the wrong guy to replace him. Hoiberg is a dope.

[Rerisen]

We need to see the difference between a guy performing on the floor and just a malcontent complaining.

Even criticism of his isolation is a bit off based. Like Rose, a lot of Jimmy's game is isolation, that's his big improvement area, the problem is when its the whole offense.

He should have plenty of touches to do that in a game, but the ideal is you also incorporate him and Rose into a team offense where at least much of the game, they don't need to iso all the time.