Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

[Ruzious]

We can forget about getting Jaylen Brown. He's better, cheaper, and younger than Beal. Boston is not in the Beal picture.

As for GS, Wiseman's been very bad so far - other than 3 point shooting, and he can't play with Bryant. The Minnesota pick they have is top 3 protected, so we might not get that pick till 2022. And the GS pick would probably be a mid 1st.

Denver isn't likely, because if they trade Porter, they got no other forwards since Grant left and Millsap is 35. Barton's 6'5 180? JaMychal Green's off to a fine start, but he's always been a journeyman. Besides, they probably want Jamal Murray to be their Bradley Beal, and he's getting there. If Beal goes to Denver, Murray would be more likely in it than Porter.

[No-Man]

I think Atlanta, Denver, Golden St., Miami and Philadelphia are the most likely destinations

Jaylen Brown isn't better than Beal, but Boston isn't moving him because he is younger and a similar asset, cheaper and under contract for the long run

I think Denver would trade Porter for Beal if they get some assurances from Bradley no problem

the Golden St. package if it is built around the Minnesota pick, their own 1st, Wiggins, Wiseman for Beal and Bryant isn't bad

Miami can give you Herro, Achiuwa, fillers and future 1sts down the road

Philadelphia probably not pulling the trigger there unless the Harden situation resolves negatively for them (not trading Simmons for Beal if you can trade him for Harden) but still a possibility

Atlanta has the right mix of being an attractive spot, aspirations, depth and young talent to sacrifice and all their picks going forward, I think they make a lot of sense as a trade partner

Anyway, the clock is ticking, not sure if it happens mid-season but Beal is asking out for sure

[No-Man]

Beal's a real good player, but I think you guys are being fans - over-estimating his trade value and under-estimating each of the Hawks players I suggested.

Jrue Holiday got traded for 5 picks and two good players, none of the Hawks' young pieces have all that much upside

The Wizards are getting a **** ton of assets back for Beal considering his contract and the previous packages for stars, you are going to be able to ask for the moon and the stars (picks, swaps AND young players) esp since no real star is out there available (Harden is, but that's a complicated situation)

[queridiculo]

And he had a -9 while Shake Milton and Seth Curry combined for 47. Why does it happen that guards like that have career games against the Wiz? What did he do in the 4th quarter with the game on the line? How many times have we seen that?

We've seen Beal with splendid 4th quarter efforts as well.

I'd ask myself, was it really necessary to play Beal the entire 3rd quarter?

Beal got a 4 minute break after 30 minutes of playing time on the court.

I'd also take a look at how Milton and Curry got their points, it's not exactly like Washington really had anybody matched up with them.

The Wizards are basically playing a prevent out there and compound their soft approach with nonsensical double teams, poor rotations, and constantly over helping.

Washington's team success is held back by poor coaching and roster building more so than Beal.

Big panda is a legit franchise player.

[Ruzious]

Beal's a real good player, but I think you guys are being fans - over-estimating his trade value and under-estimating each of the Hawks players I suggested.

Jrue Holiday got traded for 5 picks and two good players, none of the Hawks' young pieces have all that much upside

The Wizards are getting a **** ton of assets back for Beal considering his contract and the previous packages for stars, you are going to be able to ask for the moon and the stars (picks, swaps AND young players) esp since no real star is out there available (Harden is, but that's a complicated situation)

The Jrue Holiday trade was an outlier because Milwaukee was desperately looking to give Giannis a reason to re-sign, so they were willing to significantly overpay for him.

[payitforward]

Nobody wants to get less than the best possible deal if we trade Brad Beal. That would be silly.

Feel free to suggest a trade in which we get better than John Collins and a good young guard for Beal & Rui.

[gambitx777]

So I'm thinking ish to Orlando for mo bamba , they ain't playing the kid and they need a credible stop gap PG and hoenstly we have nato and brown let's take a look at bamba he has team option and we.can let him go if he doesn't pan out.

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[Frichuela]

So I'm thinking ish to Orlando for mo bamba , they ain't playing the kid and they need a credible stop gap PG and hoenstly we have nato and brown let's take a look at bamba he has team option and we.can let him go if he doesn't pan out.

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Definitely worth a shot. But would Orlando do it?

[payitforward]

Yes, that's a no-brainer. But, Bamba isn't getting dnp's -- he's dealing w/ health & injury problems: https://www.cbssports.com/nba/players/playerpage/2893236/mo-bamba

[nate33]

Nobody wants to get less than the best possible deal if we trade Brad Beal. That would be silly.

Feel free to suggest a trade in which we get better than John Collins and a good young guard for Beal & Rui.

I just don't think that Collins, on what is likely to be a max salary, is a very valuable player. He's a big that plays poor defense. We already have that guy in Thomas Bryant. At least Bryant is only paid $9M a year and not $25M+

And now you are talking about including Rui and only getting back one of Atlanta's mediocre guards? That's awful.

[wall_glizzy]

Nobody wants to get less than the best possible deal if we trade Brad Beal. That would be silly.

Feel free to suggest a trade in which we get better than John Collins and a good young guard for Beal & Rui.

I just don't think that Collins, on what is likely to be a max salary, is a very valuable player. He's a big that plays poor defense. We already have that guy in Thomas Bryant. At least Bryant is only paid $9M a year and not $25M+

And now you are talking about including Rui and only getting back one of Atlanta's mediocre guards? That's awful.

Yeah, Collins is good but one of those guys that's going to end up a neutral or negative value after hitting free agency this summer. We're on the right track in terms of spotting that he's likely on the block, but I wouldn't target him at all. With these last couple of proposals, I think the pendulum has officially swung back to us under-valuing our own assets, or at least Bradley Beal.

[wall_glizzy]

Incidentally, I'm not sure that I buy Atlanta as a likely landing spot for Beal - they'd have to pretty much empty the cupboard of the 3-and-D wings that they've been stockpiling, who are the ideal complements to Trae, all while greatly accelerating their timeline. I think they're pretty well-positioned to sit and wait, and that if they do make a move it'd be for a more pressing need than backcourt scoring. Ditto Boston (who I can only assume will shell out for a star-level big before anything else). Can't see the Sixers making a big move this year unless the wheels just completely fall off between now and the trade deadline (which is when, btw?)

Denver, I agree with - I just think that it'd make more sense for them to trade Murray than MPJ, if they're getting Beal back. Conversely, I see them being a lot more willing to move MPJ. Given the relative lack of blue chip stars available right now, though, who knows?

I think we can safely conclude that both Toronto and Miami would get a bid in, given their interest in Harden. Not sure I love the likely returns from either though; Miami is probably my preference, but trading Beal for a package "anchored" by Tyler Herro is nuts, imo.

If we could get Wiseman and two 2021 lottery picks (theirs and Minnesota's) from Golden State, plus some lesser stuff, I would probably consider it. I'm not particularly bullish on the Warriors this year, although if the new reality is that any 9 or 10 seed can play their way into the playoffs (and out of the lottery), I guess I'm less inclined to place a premium on their pick.

Anyway, I think the three most compelling fits, should the Beal situation deteriorate, might be New Orleans, Dallas, and - dark horse - Orlando. I think the first two are aiming to compete sooner than initially planned (with the progression of Ingram and Doncic, respectively, cracking open their windows), and the latter also inexplicably committed to their current core (and once more hurting for scoring with Fultz going down for the year).

Can't see us getting particularly valuable players back from any of them, though, so it would have to be an absolutely massive pick haul (and accordingly, a full-on front office embrace of a rebuild). Dallas and Orlando mostly just own their own picks going forward, while the Pelicans have a bunch of mid-2020s options with future Lakers and Bucks picks.

I dunno, can't really find a deal that I love. My favorite of the above is Golden State, especially if we could extract a couple more future picks in exchange for taking on Wiggins. I'd be a lot more comfortable betting on the Steph/Klay/Dray trio aging into decline than on future picks from a Dallas or Orlando team that includes Beal being worth much of anything.

[nate33]

Incidentally, I'm not sure that I buy Atlanta as a likely landing spot for Beal - they'd have to pretty much empty the cupboard of the 3-and-D wings that they've been stockpiling, who are the ideal complements to Trae, all while greatly accelerating their timeline. I think they're pretty well-positioned to sit and wait, and that if they do make a move it'd be for a more pressing need than backcourt scoring. Ditto Boston (who I can only assume will shell out for a star-level big before anything else). Can't see the Sixers making a big move this year unless the wheels just completely fall off between now and the trade deadline (which is when, btw?)

Denver, I agree with - I just think that it'd make more sense for them to trade Murray than MPJ, if they're getting Beal back. Conversely, I see them being a lot more willing to move MPJ. Given the relative lack of blue chip stars available right now, though, who knows?

I think we can safely conclude that both Toronto and Miami would get a bid in, given their interest in Harden. Not sure I love the likely returns from either though; Miami is probably my preference, but trading Beal for a package "anchored" by Tyler Herro is nuts, imo.

If we could get Wiseman and two 2021 lottery picks (theirs and Minnesota's) from Golden State, plus some lesser stuff, I would probably consider it. I'm not particularly bullish on the Warriors this year, although if the new reality is that any 9 or 10 seed can play their way into the playoffs (and out of the lottery), I guess I'm less inclined to place a premium on their pick.

Anyway, I think the three most compelling fits, should the Beal situation deteriorate, might be New Orleans, Dallas, and - dark horse - Orlando. I think the first two are aiming to compete sooner than initially planned (with the progression of Ingram and Doncic, respectively, cracking open their windows), and the latter also inexplicably committed to their current core (and once more hurting for scoring with Fultz going down for the year).

Can't see us getting particularly valuable players back from any of them, though, so it would have to be an absolutely massive pick haul (and accordingly, a full-on front office embrace of a rebuild). Dallas and Orlando mostly just own their own picks going forward, while the Pelicans have a bunch of mid-2020s options with future Lakers and Bucks picks.

I dunno, can't really find a deal that I love. My favorite of the above is Golden State, especially if we could extract a couple more future picks in exchange for taking on Wiggins. I'd be a lot more comfortable betting on the Steph/Klay/Dray trio aging into decline than on future picks from a Dallas or Orlando team that includes Beal being worth much of anything.

I agree that Golden State looks like they could put together the best offer, particularly if they don't do very well this season and wind up in the late lottery. The Minny lotto pick, a late GSW lotto pick, a few (unlikely) pick swaps going forward, and one more unprotected 1st round pick from far in the future (2025 or so), plus Wiggins and Wiseman in exchange for Beal and Bryant. The added bonus is that we would suck in the interim, making our own pick also a 2021 lotto pick. Three 2021 lotto picks plus Wiseman would be a good foundation for a rebuild.

I don't see anything that Dallas can offer that is interesting. They may really want Beal, but they can't obtain him.

Likewise with New Orleans. Now that those future Lakers picks belong to a team with Davis and Lebron signed long term, I just don't think they have much value. Getting Lonzo Ball plus the #28 pick in the next 4 drafts does not strike me as a compelling offer.

Which brings me back to Miami. If we can't work out a deal for Golden State, Miami's package of Herro, Achiuwa, the 2023 1st, and maybe one more pick in 2027 or something may be the best deal on the table. I'd rather have an extended Beal than that package, but if we can't get Beal to agree to an extension, I'd probably have to go with that deal. It's better than doing nothing and having Beal walk in 2022.

[NatP4]

I would take Collins as the centerpiece and pay him what he is worth. He is one of the best bigs in the entire NBA, probably as good of an impact if not better, as Beal has as a player. 4 years younger. It would only be the rookie max at most. If you could get a 1st round pick and Deandre Hunter, that’s a really good deal.

The first would be kind of awkward with Rui/Bryant/Avdija/Bonga in the frontcourt. I’m all for moving Rui for a guard prospect like PIF said.

[Dat2U]

Absolutely. Really, it's just over-estimating him.


Which was Okongwu, Hunter, & Huerter -- with Snell as filler.

I'd say it's hard to "estimate" any of the first 3. But, above all, I don't understand why we wouldn't want to build the trade around Collins -- we have a much better idea of how good he is (etxremely!), & the Hawks are about to have trouble working out a deal with him, which lowers what they'd be able to get back for him.

This would increase our log-jam of Forwards. Since John Collins is a far better player than Rui (& only 4+ months older than him), he would certainly be our starting 4 -- so the logical follow-on move (though only a few here will be willing to entertain the idea) would be to trade Rui for a good young guard of about the same age.

Better yet would be a 3-team trade that got us Collins, a really good young guard, & maybe a pick -- in return for Beal & Rui.

I think both of you underestimate being elite at the most important aspect of the sport. Putting the ball in the damn basket. 60 pts tonight. Will likely break 50 again at some point this season. How many guys average an efficient 30 ppg? That has tremendous value and cannot be easily replicated. He has a proven playoff record. He's an incredibly value commodity. Right now he's one of the most valuable in the league but yall wanna trade him for a pack of Newports and a case of natty light.

And he had a -9 while Shake Milton and Seth Curry combined for 47. Why does it happen that guards like that have career games against the Wiz? What did he do in the 4th quarter with the game on the line? How many times have we seen that?

Come on. You really going to ding him for a coach that willingly throws out Ish? Westbrook & even Neto together? Anthony Davis couldn't lift the Pelicans out of the muck, so was he overrated too? It takes more than one elite player unless its LeBron or MJ.

[Dat2U]

I would take Collins as the centerpiece and pay him what he is worth. He is one of the best bigs in the entire NBA, probably as good of an impact if not better, as Beal has as a player. 4 years younger. It would only be the rookie max at most. If you could get a 1st round pick and Deandre Hunter, that’s a really good deal.

The first would be kind of awkward with Rui/Bryant/Avdija/Bonga in the frontcourt. I’m all for moving Rui for a guard prospect like PIF said.

Collins is not a two way player. I don’t view him as a centerpiece.

[Ruzious]

I think both of you underestimate being elite at the most important aspect of the sport. Putting the ball in the damn basket. 60 pts tonight. Will likely break 50 again at some point this season. How many guys average an efficient 30 ppg? That has tremendous value and cannot be easily replicated. He has a proven playoff record. He's an incredibly value commodity. Right now he's one of the most valuable in the league but yall wanna trade him for a pack of Newports and a case of natty light.

And he had a -9 while Shake Milton and Seth Curry combined for 47. Why does it happen that guards like that have career games against the Wiz? What did he do in the 4th quarter with the game on the line? How many times have we seen that?

Come on. You really going to ding him for a coach that willingly throws out Ish? Westbrook & even Neto together? Anthony Davis couldn't lift the Pelicans out of the muck, so was he overrated too? It takes more than one elite player unless its LeBron or MJ.

The Pelicans did win with Davis when Cousins was out injured. Davis and Jrue were a very good combo. Cousins messed them up.

[wall_glizzy]

I would take Collins as the centerpiece and pay him what he is worth. He is one of the best bigs in the entire NBA, probably as good of an impact if not better, as Beal has as a player. 4 years younger. It would only be the rookie max at most. If you could get a 1st round pick and Deandre Hunter, that’s a really good deal.

The first would be kind of awkward with Rui/Bryant/Avdija/Bonga in the frontcourt. I’m all for moving Rui for a guard prospect like PIF said.

The issue is that some team - probably more than one - is going to offer Collins more than he's worth. He's good, but the idea that he's one of the very best bigs in the league, let alone more impactful than Beal, is way overstating the case (at best, I'd probably have him at the tail end of my top 10 if we're being conservative with the definition of "big" and excluding people like Giannis and Siakam). "Just the rookie max" is going to mean something around $28 million next year.

[NatP4]

It’s impossible for me to separate the on court value of Beal vs the league perception of Beal. If we can market him as a superstar that can drop 60 make all star games and fetch a Paul George like return, great. What if other teams know that he is a great offensive player, but one of the worst defensive guards in the NBA in 2019-2020 which really hurts his overall on court value?

[payitforward]

Nobody wants to get less than the best possible deal if we trade Brad Beal. That would be silly.

Feel free to suggest a trade in which we get better than John Collins and a good young guard for Beal & Rui.

I just don't think that Collins, on what is likely to be a max salary, is a very valuable player. He's a big that plays poor defense. We already have that guy in Thomas Bryant. At least Bryant is only paid $9M a year and not $25M+

And now you are talking about including Rui and only getting back one of Atlanta's mediocre guards? That's awful.

No, I wouldn't want any of Atlanta's guards in the deal -- not even Reddish, if someone wants to imagine he'll wind up a big 2-3.

If it were a single trade, I was projecting a 3d team being involved -- but I never got as far as considering who that would be. I had in mind that Beal & Rui would bring back Collins & a very good young guard.

I'm projecting Collins as a 4, obviously -- is Rui a better defender than he is?

For that matter, we know Brad is a terrific player, but is he "very valuable" at his $34m salary?

Your point about Collins vis a vis Bryant is a good one, however.