NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 3)

[AleksandarN]

If anything the higher ups are going to call Perk into their offices to praise him. I mean we got multiple pages with multiple links to videos about Perk on here. ESPN has been able to milk this for a ton of clicks and views.

Perk is excelling at his job as of late, there is no denying this.

But they should reprimand him or possibly suspend or term him if he implies race is the reason for the 3rd MVP

But why? If we look at the ESPN YouTube page, the video of Perk saying the things he said is the most popular video for ESPN since its been uploaded. If you look at First Takes Twitter page, what has been the tweet with the most interaction over the last couple days? Its Perk talking Jokic. Then you add on the JJ videos, the RJ videos all responding to that.

Perk is doing exactly what he's being paid to do. ESPN isnt doing some morality trip or anything, they dont care if the race card gets pulled. They want clicks and views and Perk is doing a hell of a job with that when it comes to the MVP race, he's doing a better job than anyone else at ESPN.

He's not going to get reprimanded or suspended for this. If anything he's only going to get rewarded with more airtime. Perk is hitting a homerun at his job right now.

I also want to be clear, I think this whole thing is stupid. This is why I stopped watching ESPN a long long time ago. ESPN is just TMZ sports though. I think its a stupid and garbage point that Perk is making, but people are eating it up, so good on him.

Exactly

[GeorgeSears]

Really where do you get that bucks have had their 2nd best player out most of the year and he’s still not back fully coming off bench and missed tonite on a btb

Granted, It hasn't been updated in two weeks.

Read on Twitter

A bit of a difference though between Jeff Green missing games and Middleton missing games.

I know. I don't put much stock into those last two posts. I just posted them as "receipts" in the event that someone tries to make the case that the other two are playing with less help.

[AussieCeltic]

Read on Twitter

yes guys, lets throw in some made up loss vs vorp vs BS vs magic the gathering stats that we made up to show how Bucks weren't injured or didnt miss players.

Keep up the comedy!

That stat a bit disingenuous given Middleton has been coming off the bench.

Celtics regular 5 have only started 5 games together this season as well. With 4 of those coming in the last 4 games.

Every team has had injuries and load managed/game managed.

[Kurtz]

Read on Twitter

yes guys, lets throw in some made up loss vs vorp vs BS vs magic the gathering stats that we made up to show how Bucks weren't injured or didnt miss players.

Keep up the comedy!

That stat a bit disingenuous given Middleton has been coming off the bench.

Celtics regular 5 have only started 5 games together this season as well. With 4 of those coming in the last 4 games.

Every team has had injuries and load managed/game managed.

Celtics are crazy deep though, let's be honest. Can't think of too many teams where Brogdon and White would be coming off the bench.

[DutchManDanFan]

The Sixers are 9-4 without Embiid this season.

The Bucks are 7-5 without Giannis this season (It's actually better than that because he had a couple of games where he only played like 6 minutes and the Bucks still won).

The Nuggets are 3-5 without Jokic this season.

It’s kind of sad the Jokic stans use this constantly, but don’t tell these games were against:
4 or 5 play-off teams for the Bucks,
5 or 6 play-off teams for the Nuggets.
So just the expected scores without the stars. I haven’t checked this for Phily.

[AussieCeltic]

Read on Twitter

yes guys, lets throw in some made up loss vs vorp vs BS vs magic the gathering stats that we made up to show how Bucks weren't injured or didnt miss players.

Keep up the comedy!

That stat a bit disingenuous given Middleton has been coming off the bench.

Celtics regular 5 have only started 5 games together this season as well. With 4 of those coming in the last 4 games.

Every team has had injuries and load managed/game managed.

Celtics are crazy deep though, let's be honest. Can't think of too many teams where Brogdon and White would be coming off the bench.

That’s true but not my point. The point is that most teams haven’t had their full starters this year not just the Bucks or Celtics. Plus the Bucks have had Middleton as of late but are bringing him off the bench.

[DutchManDanFan]

I wonder how many of you listened to Perkins without bias.
His point: Jokic averaged 9.5 assists per game. Then he started to take less shots and got more assists and got his average above 10 assists. Isn’t this just true? Why all the fuzz about this?

I don’t agree with everything he said and insinuated around this. But it’s good he noted this and asked questions about it. The simple answer is the Nuggets win a lot of games so who cares.

[AussieCeltic]

I wonder how many of you listened to Perkins without bias.
His point: Jokic averaged 9.5 assists per game. Then he started to take less shots and got more assists and got his average above 10 assists. Is’t this just true? Why all the fuzz about this?

I don’t agree with everything he said and insinuated around this. But it’s good he noted this and asked questions about it. The simple answer is the Nuggets win a lot of games so who cares.

Because Perkins is dumb. If you actually watch Jokic, he’s the opposite of a stat padder. Let’s his teammates rebound, gets rid of the ball quickly, will sit out 4th quarters even if he’s 1 assist or rebound short of a triple double.

Total opposite of Westbrook who was extremely inefficient, had record usage stats, would leave his defensive assignment to chase rebounds, would continue to play in blowouts just to record more stats.

I mean, it’s just chalk and cheese.

[DutchManDanFan]

Those are noisy stats that are charted. It doesn’t differentiate enough the quality of injured players. Having your 12th injured is not same as having your 3rd best player injured. Btw Middleton is the bucks third best player

So now defense does matter? Khris is and has always been no 2 on offense behind Giannis.
Khris missed 41 games and is still on minutes restriction. But excuses are only allowed for Jokic I guess.

It would be nice to acknowledge it’s a close race and the only reason Jokic leads (if at all) is because he missed a few games less.

[CobraCommander]

If anything the higher ups are going to call Perk into their offices to praise him. I mean we got multiple pages with multiple links to videos about Perk on here. ESPN has been able to milk this for a ton of clicks and views.

Perk is excelling at his job as of late, there is no denying this.

But they should reprimand him or possibly suspend or term him if he implies race is the reason for the 3rd MVP

But why? If we look at the ESPN YouTube page, the video of Perk saying the things he said is the most popular video for ESPN since its been uploaded. If you look at First Takes Twitter page, what has been the tweet with the most interaction over the last couple days? Its Perk talking Jokic. Then you add on the JJ videos, the RJ videos all responding to that.

Perk is doing exactly what he's being paid to do. ESPN isnt doing some morality trip or anything, they dont care if the race card gets pulled. They want clicks and views and Perk is doing a hell of a job with that when it comes to the MVP race, he's doing a better job than anyone else at ESPN.

He's not going to get reprimanded or suspended for this. If anything he's only going to get rewarded with more airtime. Perk is hitting a homerun at his job right now.

I also want to be clear, I think this whole thing is stupid. This is why I stopped watching ESPN a long long time ago. ESPN is just TMZ sports though. I think its a stupid and garbage point that Perk is making, but people are eating it up, so good on him.

Great point- all around- sad state of affairs if that’s what people what to see.

I’m here for Hoops minus the PerkType BS

[DutchManDanFan]

That stat a bit disingenuous given Middleton has been coming off the bench.

Celtics regular 5 have only started 5 games together this season as well. With 4 of those coming in the last 4 games.

Every team has had injuries and load managed/game managed.

Celtics are crazy deep though, let's be honest. Can't think of too many teams where Brogdon and White would be coming off the bench.

That’s true but not my point. The point is that most teams haven’t had their full starters this year not just the Bucks or Celtics. Plus the Bucks have had Middleton as of late but are bringing him off the bench.

Giannis, Khris, Jrue and BroLo only played 71 minutes together this season. That should be the point. Not the amount of starts together. it’s important to know if you want to use on-off stats to compare certain players.

[AleksandarN]

I wonder how many of you listened to Perkins without bias.
His point: Jokic averaged 9.5 assists per game. Then he started to take less shots and got more assists and got his average above 10 assists. Is’t this just true? Why all the fuzz about this?

I don’t agree with everything he said and insinuated around this. But it’s good he noted this and asked questions about it. The simple answer is the Nuggets win a lot of games so who cares.

Let me ask you. What is Denver's record when Jokic has 10 or more assists?

[Genjuro]

Really where do you get that bucks have had their 2nd best player out most of the year and he’s still not back fully coming off bench and missed tonite on a btb

Granted, It hasn't been updated in two weeks.

Read on Twitter

Those are noisy stats that are charted. It doesn’t differentiate enough the quality of injured players. Having your 12th injured is not same as having your 3rd best player injured. Btw Middleton is the bucks third best player

It does actually. The bubble size accounts for that. Milwaukee's and even Philly's are bigger than Denver's. Some of that is because both Giannis and Embiid have missed more games than Jokic.

[AleksandarN]

Granted, It hasn't been updated in two weeks.

Read on Twitter

Those are noisy stats that are charted. It doesn’t differentiate enough the quality of injured players. Having your 12th injured is not same as having your 3rd best player injured. Btw Middleton is the bucks third best player

It does actually. The bubble size accounts for that. Milwaukee's and even Philly's are bigger than Denver's. Some of that is because both Giannis and Embiid have missed more games than Jokic.

I said differentiate enough. I don't think using stats to demonstrate the true over impact of injuries is adequate

[Ryoga Hibiki]

The Sixers are 9-4 without Embiid this season.

The Bucks are 7-5 without Giannis this season (It's actually better than that because he had a couple of games where he only played like 6 minutes and the Bucks still won).

The Nuggets are 3-5 without Jokic this season.

It’s kind of said the Jokic stans use this constantly, but don’t tell these games were against:
4 or 5 play-off teams for the Bucks,
5 or 6 play-off teams for the Nuggets.
So just the expected scores without the stars. I haven’t checked this for Phily.

There are many missing pieces, obviously, so much noise, no stat is the end of everything.
Just every single data point suggests that the Bucks are a team that can hold its own even without Giannis, even with Middleton injured, significantly more than the Nuggets without Jokic. On/off, lineup data, wowy record.
Is this the last word? Not necessarily, but I do believe that it's consistent with the eye test, their personal stats and the way I understand both teams played.
And I think it's way more relevant than just looking at the total wins of each team or general comments about Middleton being out.
If anything, this is telling me that if Middleton is 100% back for the playoffs the Bucks should be the title favorites.

[dygaction]

I wonder how many of you listened to Perkins without bias.
His point: Jokic averaged 9.5 assists per game. Then he started to take less shots and got more assists and got his average above 10 assists. Is’t this just true? Why all the fuzz about this?

I don’t agree with everything he said and insinuated around this. But it’s good he noted this and asked questions about it. The simple answer is the Nuggets win a lot of games so who cares.

Let me ask you. What is Denver's record when Jokic has 10 or more assists?

This season the Nuggets are 30W-1L when Jokic had 10 or more assists; 11W-13L when he had less than 10 assists; 3W-5L when he did not play. Alarming difference.

[LessEyeTest]

The reality is that it's understandable for Bucks & 76ers fans to attempt to prod holes into Jokic because realistically they know their guy doesn't have a shot at MVP barring injury. So now they're questioning whether Jokic stat pads based on a low IQ take by a certified bum in Kendrick Perkins. Let them have their moment!

[JayMKE]

The reality is that it's understandable for Bucks & 76ers fans to attempt to prod holes into Jokic because realistically they know their guy doesn't have a shot at MVP barring injury. So now they're questioning whether Jokic stat pads based on a low IQ take by a certified bum in Kendrick Perkins. Let them have their moment!

lol our moment is when the real MVP raises the trophy in June, your moment is a media given award & making up excuses for why Jokic gets bounced every year without much of a whimper. Too much of a novelty being a fat white guy who is 7 foot and PASSES, whattttttt? A center that gets assists!?!?!?!?! That must count as a double assist or something, that's way more valuable than a guard passing obviously. Jokic "plays the right way", you know, not like some athletic 2 way player that can dominate both sides of the game and is a proven winner in the postseason. He passes and is really efficient over the course of 82 games, obviously that's the MOST valuable skillset in the league which is why it translates so easily to the postseason.



this is how I imagine Jokic Stans

[Sharkboy242]

The reality is that it's understandable for Bucks & 76ers fans to attempt to prod holes into Jokic because realistically they know their guy doesn't have a shot at MVP barring injury. So now they're questioning whether Jokic stat pads based on a low IQ take by a certified bum in Kendrick Perkins. Let them have their moment!

lol our moment is when the real MVP raises the trophy in June, your moment is a media given award & making up excuses for why Jokic gets bounced every year without much of a whimper. Too much of a novelty being a fat white guy who is 7 foot and PASSES, whattttttt? A center that gets assists!?!?!?!?! That must count as a double assist or something, that's way more valuable than a guard passing obviously. Jokic "plays the right way", you know, not like some athletic 2 way player that can dominate both sides of the game and is a proven winner in the postseason. He passes and is really efficient over the course of 82 games, obviously that's the MOST valuable skillset in the league which is why it translates so easily to the postseason.



this is how I imagine Jokic Stans

lol

Sad how insecure you seem to be about your favorite basketball player not winning MVP.

[JayMKE]

The reality is that it's understandable for Bucks & 76ers fans to attempt to prod holes into Jokic because realistically they know their guy doesn't have a shot at MVP barring injury. So now they're questioning whether Jokic stat pads based on a low IQ take by a certified bum in Kendrick Perkins. Let them have their moment!

lol our moment is when the real MVP raises the trophy in June, your moment is a media given award & making up excuses for why Jokic gets bounced every year without much of a whimper. Too much of a novelty being a fat white guy who is 7 foot and PASSES, whattttttt? A center that gets assists!?!?!?!?! That must count as a double assist or something, that's way more valuable than a guard passing obviously. Jokic "plays the right way", you know, not like some athletic 2 way player that can dominate both sides of the game and is a proven winner in the postseason. He passes and is really efficient over the course of 82 games, obviously that's the MOST valuable skillset in the league which is why it translates so easily to the postseason.



this is how I imagine Jokic Stans

lol

Sad how insecure you seem to be about your favorite basketball player not winning MVP.

Take a look in the mirror brother, Giannis has his MVPs and a ring so what is there to be insecure about? Its Jokic fans who live vicariously thru these media trophies & regular season counting stats, they're the ones going "ackshully Jokic is more dominant than Wilt Chamberlain & Larry Bird if you look at the x-axis on this graph" and constantly throw all his teammates/coaches under the bus. I don't need a stat sheet or equation to tell me who the better player is, only thru those can anybody even make an argument otherwise.