Coronavirus

[D1ckeyS1mpkins]

At this pace, we’ll all be unemployed, bankrupt, and without healthcare in 6 months and 4chan will be the only forum left standing.

[dice]

Please with the condescending tone. Yes that is what they are tasked for but they do not have the ability. Even an expert from a single industry can make mistakes.

yes, everybody can make mistakes. including your own business when making decisions for itself. particularly when you, like all of us, lack data and certainly about potential adverse business impacts of the virus

No one in the government has contacted my company. We produce machinery to process food(essential goods). Companies that produce millions of pounds of food a year depend on us. Exclusively.

there are business leaders that represent companies, including yours. the government is not going to contact every company individually to ask their opinion

There are no business leaders that know everything about all aspects of an industry.

nor is there a single business that knows all aspects of an industry. nor is it realistic to expect the government to consult directly with your company in the event of a pandemic that we have very little handle on

What details do you see them working out on these blanket shut downs? Grocery stores needs people to produce food, processing, packaging, raw material, transportation, distribution, insurance, medical. You could break all these down into subcategories and I'm probably leaving a bunch out. This is just to keep a grocery store going. Now consider this for all essential businesses. Not many people working to create fun stuff we can live without.

which is why there IS no blanket shutdown. essential services are supposed to still be permitted to operate. now, if there are businesses that have been caught in the shutdown net that should not have been, that needs to be rectified

has there been a list submitted that explicitly defines which businesses are considered essential? or do companies have some latitude to make that determination for themselves? i would assume that there's some fluidity in the directives given that they are not actual laws that need to be voted on by legislatures

[dice]

At this pace, we’ll all be unemployed, bankrupt, and without healthcare in 6 months and 4chan will be the only forum left standing.

at what pace? the pace of increases in reported infections? in that case, yes. which is precisely why the stay at home orders are in effect

[Chi town]

3 days ago we were at 20 cases per 1M people. Now we are at 100.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

NYC looks like it could approach Italy type of status by next weekend.

[dice]

Thats because it’s monstrous. You can’t evaluate quality of life to minimize negative economic outcomes. Those of you stating that people are going starve to death, riot and start committing suicide in huge numbers are the ones spreading irrational fear, not the other way around. And doing so based on what are highly likely personal concerns with individual finances and not macro considerations for the good of all.

Fortunately this is not a dystopian novel and the government is not going to sacrifice the lives of the elderly and infirm as part of its “macro” strategy to battle the economic evils of the corona virus.

Economic problems can cost lives too. For example almost no one currently retires will see their 401K bounce completely back. They will have less money for healthcare. The shutdown has already cost lives in this way. We will see what supply chain issues arise. It won't be none. People are going to start losing jobs like crazy if the lockdown continues very much longer. Followed by losing their homes.

If you honestly think crunching numbers to find the best possible outcome is monstrous I probably can't say much to you.

You just completely changed the argument from what it was to a completely different thing. Obviously the economy is a consideration in all this and must be heavily considered in the decision making process. But not by throwing the elderly and infirm on the pyre so we can all go back to work sooner.

And no, shelter in place has not “already cost lives.” That’s just a lie. On the other hand, about 30 people died from coronavirus in New York. Today.

to be fair, it's certainly possible that shelter in place has or will cost lives as a product of despair. but on balance the risk to lives, including quality of life, sure seems to be on the side of illness prevention at this point

as for relative value of lives, we make these calculations all the time in society. including within civil law. some lives are deemed to be more valuable than others. and not just in terms of monetary earnings

[Bandit King]

The majority of Nostradamus’ quatrains were penned in his 1555 Magnum Opus Les Propheties.

Nostradamus has predicted that the third anti Christ has already arrived [trump]


In one of his quatrains, the 16th-century prophet warned of a plague striking a number of cities in Italy.

Century III, Quatrain 75 reads: “Pau, Verona, Vicenza, Saragossa,

“From distant swords lands wet with blood:

“Very great plague will come with the great shell,

“Relief near, and the remedies very far.”

The man was right!

[dice]

The majority of Nostradamus’ quatrains were penned in his 1555 Magnum Opus Les Propheties.

Nostradamus has predicted that the third anti Christ has already arrived [trump]


In one of his quatrains, the 16th-century prophet warned of a plague striking a number of cities in Italy.

Century III, Quatrain 75 reads: “Pau, Verona, Vicenza, Saragossa,

“From distant swords lands wet with blood:

“Very great plague will come with the great shell,

“Relief near, and the remedies very far.”

The man was right!

he wrote several thousand vague prophecies. some of them were bound to "come true." here's one:

"From the depths of the West of Europe,
A young child will be born of poor people,
He who by his tongue will seduce a great troop;
His fame will increase towards the realm of the East..."

"...Beasts ferocious with hunger will cross the rivers,
The greater part of the battlefield will be against Hister.
Into a cage of iron will the great one be drawn,
When the child of Germany observes nothing."

[bullsnewdynasty]

There’s 6 reported deaths so far in Illinois.

To shut down the entire state seems pretty insane considering that a lot more than 6 people get shot in Chicago every month. Yet there’s no executive action/response to that problem.

At what point do we need to seriously think about what we’re doing? People losing their jobs and businesses seems much more damaging to me.

Are you still trying to peddle your paranoid media conspiracy theory that this is all being manufactured to defeat Trump?

You wrote this 9 days ago:

Sure, let's question numbers from the CDC. I'm sure the media panic has nothing to do with the election and trying to drive the stock market down, namely getting the president out of office.

They're playing all of you for fools.

Because even Trump dropped that line of balderdash. The reason what is happening is happening is partly because early on key decision makers were employing your dangerous view and now they are doing everything they can to limit the damage already done by their reckless naysaying and lies.

Let me ask you this: why do you think Pritzker, Cuomo, Newsom, etc. are taking these steps? Is it still to make Trump look bad? If so, why did Trump declare a national emergency? Why is his guy Fauci going on the news everyday to explain to us the science about how bad and dangerous this is? About how it’s going to get much worse? Is he in on it too?

Far move people are going to get wiped out by the economic consequences of these decisions.

It's not a matter of when we're going to have a recession, it's how many jobs will be lost/have retirement savings bottom out.

You're the one making the political arguments now. You and your Democrat buddies Pritzker and Cuomo seem to have an active interest in tanking the economy during an election year.

[robert76]

The majority of Nostradamus’ quatrains were penned in his 1555 Magnum Opus Les Propheties.

Nostradamus has predicted that the third anti Christ has already arrived [trump]


In one of his quatrains, the 16th-century prophet warned of a plague striking a number of cities in Italy.

Century III, Quatrain 75 reads: “Pau, Verona, Vicenza, Saragossa,

“From distant swords lands wet with blood:

“Very great plague will come with the great shell,

“Relief near, and the remedies very far.”

The man was right!

he wrote several thousand vague prophecies. some of them were bound to "come true." here's one:

"From the depths of the West of Europe,
A young child will be born of poor people,
He who by his tongue will seduce a great troop;
His fame will increase towards the realm of the East..."

"...Beasts ferocious with hunger will cross the rivers,
The greater part of the battlefield will be against Hister.
Into a cage of iron will the great one be drawn,
When the child of Germany observes nothing."

Exactly. Because they're so vague you can interpret them in a number of ways. That's why you don't hear anybody say "look what's gonna happen in 3 years, there will be the greatest earthquake/war/famine ever." It's always after the fact. "Hey, Nostradamus was right."

As for the Anti Christ, I doubt it would be a mumbling idiot like Trump.

[madvillian]

God has a very excellent sense of grim, ironic humor. Italy, China and the US hardest hit? Xi, Berlusconi led and dominated Italy and Trump!

Don't trust authoritarian cults of personality folks. Trust in Science, Truth, and Democracy.

[Habs72]

Yes. Lets sacrifice people in the altar of economics. Some people dont get it before it explodes on their faces, or in their faces. Maybe this will make your country start thinking more about their citizens than money spend on space programs and military expenses. Mind you this will make a huuuuge impact on healthcare, also other than infected people. Your country is about to start to hit the deep end with this next week or two, 14 500 new cases in the last update and youre only getting started with this.

Let's be honest, as a Finn, you benefit from our military as much as we do. I have no idea what Putin, China, Iran, etc. would do if they had no fear of repercussions for their actions. Russia basically stole Crimea and they have made claims on parts of Finland in the past. The Baltic states . . . You could basically guarantee that Putin would put all of his neighbors under his thumb.

Well i`m not worried about Putin. We have 230 000 men/women In arms if war come. We have A lot of heavy artillery. Finnish ground is damn tricky. Forests, swamps Rivers and lakes make tanks almost useless. And we can raise our military up to 900 000 men an women in arms. We have enough missiles. And we are well trained. Personally when i was in the Army i did use 24 different weapons. But most important thing is that we have some nukes. They are made in 60`s and 70`s and Putin know this. So St. peterburg and Moscov would get atleast destroyed. And if they would use nuke`s they bacially nuke themself. Atlantic ocean winds make most of fallout in Russia`s side. And Putin has been living in Finland a lot. He has here a lot of friends and they meet every year. Just normal Joes. No polticons. So he like Finland. And if u somewhou reach Helsinki it only started guerrilla war. Putin has no money or Power to fight against Europe. Germany can really fast make autofactorys to warfactorys.

Wtf youre talkin about? STOP makin up **** like Finland has nukes, cause we DONT !

[Habs72]

This post exactly why people in the medical field should be part of the policy discussion but not determining policy.

You only see what's in front of you, which are the patients suffering from the virus. But you have no awareness of the social and economic impact of whatever policy you are advocating. You don't even consider those things.

So let me ask you, what is the effect of millions of people losing their jobs in the next two months? What strains does that cause on society? How many people die as a result? What happens to rate of violent crime?

At what point do the negative consequences of nationwide shutdowns outweigh the benefits of flattening the curve?

Or let me put it like you did: will your tune change if a family member is murdered as a result of mass rioting? Or if a family member commits suicide because he lost his job and can't care for his family?

Yes. Lets sacrifice people in the altar of economics. Some people dont get it before it explodes on their faces, or in their faces. Maybe this will make your country start thinking more about their citizens than money spend on space programs and military expenses. Mind you this will make a huuuuge impact on healthcare, also other than infected people. Your country is about to start to hit the deep end with this next week or two, 14 500 new cases in the last update and youre only getting started with this.

Let's be honest, as a Finn, you benefit from our military as much as we do. I have no idea what Putin, China, Iran, etc. would do if they had no fear of repercussions for their actions. Russia basically stole Crimea and they have made claims on parts of Finland in the past. The Baltic states . . . You could basically guarantee that Putin would put all of his neighbors under his thumb.

You mean like when Trump made claims about Greenland and wanted to buy it from Denmark? And when Denmark answered to that by laughing at Trump (as the whole world did) he cancelled his planned trip Denmark ?

[Habs72]

I've been wondering why we didn't just have those at risk self quarantine and have the healthy keep society going.

There's no real easy way to implement that, but it would be interesting to do something like "If you are over 60, you are self quarantined, you can not see anyone even family, and we will have 100% of your food/needs delivered to you free of charge" and then in hospital/nursing home settings come up with some rigid way to keep thing sanitary.

The problem, of course, is many high risk people live with low risk people making feasibility of implementation extremely low. London had a plan of purposefully mass infecting the low risk population for awhile, and it would be interesting to see how that would have panned out in a mirror universe, but I think that plan has too much risk and downside to be seriously considered.

That has also been one of many problems in Italy, generations living together.

[Habs72]

Yep. I said it earlier in this thread.... many of those downplaying the risk of the virus and railing against the NBA shutting down, cities essentially shutting down, and much of society shutting down will all yell about how right they were and how wrong the “panic” was if this passes without tremendous losses of life... they’ll do so, completely disregarding how much of the reactions - shutting things down, quarantines - likely played a massive role in allowing this to pass without that tremendous loss of life.

Many pundits know this and continue to downplay the risks of COVID because they know they’ll likely be able to continue attacking the response when the smoke clears.

Like all things in life, you won't be able to play it two ways, so there's no way to know what would happen with other choices.

I hope we hit a point where those saying this was unnecessary are complaining about how it did nothing and those who said it was are saying we stopped 200 million cases and saved 3 million lives. That'd be a great debate to have when this is over compared to one where we are arguing about how we failed and what we could have done to prevent millions of lives lost.

Great Britain went the other option at start. They changed their strategy quite fast when data and calculations from their researchers were telling them it will only making things worse if they continue with the herd strategy.

[Habs72]

There’s 6 reported deaths so far in Illinois.

To shut down the entire state seems pretty insane considering that a lot more than 6 people get shot in Chicago every month. Yet there’s no executive action/response to that problem.

At what point do we need to seriously think about what we’re doing? People losing their jobs and businesses seems much more damaging to me.

Are you still trying to peddle your paranoid media conspiracy theory that this is all being manufactured to defeat Trump?

You wrote this 9 days ago:

Sure, let's question numbers from the CDC. I'm sure the media panic has nothing to do with the election and trying to drive the stock market down, namely getting the president out of office.

They're playing all of you for fools.

Because even Trump dropped that line of balderdash. The reason what is happening is happening is partly because early on key decision makers were employing your dangerous view and now they are doing everything they can to limit the damage already done by their reckless naysaying and lies.

Let me ask you this: why do you think Pritzker, Cuomo, Newsom, etc. are taking these steps? Is it still to make Trump look bad? If so, why did Trump declare a national emergency? Why is his guy Fauci going on the news everyday to explain to us the science about how bad and dangerous this is? About how it’s going to get much worse? Is he in on it too?

Far move people are going to get wiped out by the economic consequences of these decisions.

It's not a matter of when we're going to have a recession, it's how many jobs will be lost/have retirement savings bottom out.

You're the one making the political arguments now. You and your Democrat buddies Pritzker and Cuomo seem to have an active interest in tanking the economy during an election year.

Oh shut up already with your political bull**** in pandemic enviroment. You think there is election year in the whole world?

[dice]

The majority of Nostradamus’ quatrains were penned in his 1555 Magnum Opus Les Propheties.

Nostradamus has predicted that the third anti Christ has already arrived [trump]


In one of his quatrains, the 16th-century prophet warned of a plague striking a number of cities in Italy.

Century III, Quatrain 75 reads: “Pau, Verona, Vicenza, Saragossa,

“From distant swords lands wet with blood:

“Very great plague will come with the great shell,

“Relief near, and the remedies very far.”

The man was right!

he wrote several thousand vague prophecies. some of them were bound to "come true." here's one:

"From the depths of the West of Europe,
A young child will be born of poor people,
He who by his tongue will seduce a great troop;
His fame will increase towards the realm of the East..."

"...Beasts ferocious with hunger will cross the rivers,
The greater part of the battlefield will be against Hister.
Into a cage of iron will the great one be drawn,
When the child of Germany observes nothing."

Exactly. Because they're so vague you can interpret them in a number of ways. That's why you don't hear anybody say "look what's gonna happen in 3 years, there will be the greatest earthquake/war/famine ever." It's always after the fact. "Hey, Nostradamus was right."

As for the Anti Christ, I doubt it would be a mumbling idiot like Trump.

on sept. 11, 2001, bob dylan released the superb album 'love and theft.' from the classic track 'mississippi':

Every step of the way, we walk the line
Your days are numbered, so are mine
Time is piling up, we struggle and we stray
We're all boxed in, nowhere to escape

City's just a jungle, more games to play
Trapped in the heart of it, tryin' to get away
I was raised in the country, I been working in the town
I been in trouble ever since I set my suitcase down

Got nothing for you, I had nothing before
Don't even have anything for myself anymore
Sky full of fire, Pain pouring down
Nothing you can sell me, I'll see you around

......

Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me

and in something of a foreshadowing of hurricane katrina, from the song 'high water':

High water rising the shacks are sliding down
Folks lose their possessions, the folks are leaving town
Reformation shook it, broke it, then she hung it on the wall
Say you dancin' with whom they tell you to or you don't dance at all
It's tough out there
High water everywhere

......

High water rising, six inches above my head
Coffins droppin' in the street like balloons made out of lead
Water poured into Vicksburg, don't know what I'm gonna do
Don't reach out for me, she said, can't you see I'm drowning too
It's rough out there
High water everywhere

nostradamus ain't got nuthin' on that ****

the village voice later printed a column entitled 'what did bob dylan know, and when did he know it?'

also on sept. 11, the chicago rock band wilco was scheduled to release their fantastic album 'yankee hotel foxtrot.' due to a change in record labels, the band streamed the album on their website a week later (first time an album was released in this manner?). it was not officially released for several months. anyway, from the song 'jesus, etc.':

Don't cry
You can rely on me honey
You can come by any time you want
I'll be around
You were right about the stars
Each one is a setting sun

Tall buildings shake
Voices escape singing sad sad songs
Tuned to chords
Strung down your cheeks
Bitter melodies turning your orbit around

Voices whine
Skyscrapers are scraping together
Your voice is smoking
Last cigarettes are all you can get
Turning your orbit around

Our love
Our love
Our love is all we have

Our love
Our love is all of God's money
Everyone is a burning sun

from 'ashes of american flags':

We want a good life with a nose for things
the fresh wind and bright sky to endure my suffering
I'm a hole without a key if I break my tongue
Oh, speaking of tomorrow, how will it ever come?

All my lies are only wishes
I know I would die if I could come back new

I would like to salute
the ashes of American flags
And all the fallen leaves
filling up shopping bags

they got the towers wrong, though:



also released on sept. 11: slayer's 'god hates us all.' eerie. and mariah carey's 'glitter.' even eerier. oh, and jay-z's 'the blueprint'

[AKfanatic]

There’s 6 reported deaths so far in Illinois.

To shut down the entire state seems pretty insane considering that a lot more than 6 people get shot in Chicago every month. Yet there’s no executive action/response to that problem.

At what point do we need to seriously think about what we’re doing? People losing their jobs and businesses seems much more damaging to me.

Are you still trying to peddle your paranoid media conspiracy theory that this is all being manufactured to defeat Trump?

You wrote this 9 days ago:

Sure, let's question numbers from the CDC. I'm sure the media panic has nothing to do with the election and trying to drive the stock market down, namely getting the president out of office.

They're playing all of you for fools.

Because even Trump dropped that line of balderdash. The reason what is happening is happening is partly because early on key decision makers were employing your dangerous view and now they are doing everything they can to limit the damage already done by their reckless naysaying and lies.

Let me ask you this: why do you think Pritzker, Cuomo, Newsom, etc. are taking these steps? Is it still to make Trump look bad? If so, why did Trump declare a national emergency? Why is his guy Fauci going on the news everyday to explain to us the science about how bad and dangerous this is? About how it’s going to get much worse? Is he in on it too?

Far move people are going to get wiped out by the economic consequences of these decisions.

It's not a matter of when we're going to have a recession, it's how many jobs will be lost/have retirement savings bottom out.

You're the one making the political arguments now. You and your Democrat buddies Pritzker and Cuomo seem to have an active interest in tanking the economy during an election year.

What a bunch of nonsense....

As if Japan, Italy, the UK, Australia, China, New Zealand, Iran, etc. all got on a conference call with the American “left” and decided that the world economy is secondary to beating Trump in the next election.....

This is as absurd as the birther nonsense.. Obama was born in Kenya and somehow managed a birth announcement in a Hawaiian newspaper... it was a conspiracy by the left... they uhhh, either time traveled or were so wickedly powerful that they knew a baby born in Kenya was their one hope to lead, so they put in the birth announcement and moved the pieces so that baby Obama would one day lead....

But hey, maybe it’s all true... maybe they’re running the world from their Comet ping pong pizza lair, in that invisible, non existent basement.


Damn, if “democrats” are that powerful at putting things into motion.... how exactly do they ever lose an election, let alone a vote in the senate...

[AKfanatic]

Read on Twitter

[ImSlower]

I ain't one to get on people's political views, but it's absolutely ridiculous to blame a worldwide shutdown on Them Lib'rals. Oh, jeez.

[SimonFish]

The truth behind Wuhan's "zero new case":

Wuhan denying virus tests to keep numbers down

Despite claims made by mainland authorities that there have been no new local infections of the coronavirus in Wuhan in the last few days, people there have told RTHK this is simply not the case.

They say patients are being turned away from hospitals without testing to back the official data, which one person described as a "not medical, but political treatment".

Wuhan authorities have already closed the 10 or so temporary hospitals that were set up after regular ones came inundated with patients. The temporary facilities were doing tests on people showing mild symptoms.

Officials say these tests are not needed as the number of new infections has fallen sharply.

More at link:
https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1516240-20200323.htm