Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2

[Illuminaire]

While I lean towards Ruz' perspective here, I would say that one good game is not enough to convince me that Wade isn't about to hit a very scary stretch of his career. He's a guy whose game revolves around being more athletic than his opponent, and he's entering a time when the only way to stave off significant athletic decline is being ultra-disciplined (Kobe) or a freak ironman (Iverson).

[hands11]

One things is for sure, things are setting up for there to be massive movement this off season.

Maybe it happens, maybe it doesn't, but if the deck chairs start to move, there could be a cascade.

Howard, CP3, Boston and LA looking like they need to reload, a flat draft at the top with team like Cleveland with lots of picks and needing some vets, Houston, and Cuban always ready to make a splash.

LAC is looking like they need to do something or they could fall back into suck range real easy. Maybe a year of that would be good for them given next years class.

Good stuff to keep in mind while designing your own team.

It also helps put this draft in perspective. There just aren't players in this class that are good enough to project as starters on a team that is already slotted to be a 4th or 5th seed playoff team which is what I believe the Wizards already have.

[mhd]

Well, if Boston pulls this trade, their goes one more playoff team that the Wiz can be better than next year.

[fishercob]

The Lakers are a mess.

Kobe will take up half their cap next year and probably won't play; then he's a UFA and he's 72 years old.
Howard may leave for nothing.
The picked a terrible coach for their personnel.
Gasol is old.

They have no first round pick this year, in 2015 or 2017. They have no second rounders in '14 or '15.

[verbal8]

The big problem the Lakers have is that a couple of their likely best moves to clean up the mess would be PR disasters.
The huge one would be amnestying Kobe Bryant.
I also think a S&T of Dwight Howard to the Clippers is something Howard might go for and could get the best return the Lakers could get(DeAndre Jordan & Bledsoe?). For Howard it would be the easiest way for him to play on the same team as Chris Paul.

The Lakers are a mess.

Kobe will take up half their cap next year and probably won't play; then he's a UFA and he's 72 years old.
Howard may leave for nothing.
The picked a terrible coach for their personnel.
Gasol is old.

They have no first round pick this year, in 2015 or 2017. They have no second rounders in '14 or '15.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Old Pau is still a player I would love to see the Wizards acquire.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... lits/2013/

He'll be 33 and his stats show decline. However, Pau averaged 17.5/12.1/6.6 in April on shooting right near his career average, .518.

His splits showed recovery late in the season. He is still a great passer and he rebounds at the same rate. Howard was a teammate but Pau cleaned the glass when healthy.

Gasol might be easy to acquire cheaply because you're right, fish, the Lakers are a mess. (Either that or Phil wants D'Antoni run out of town.)

http://www.lakersspin.com/2013/06/phil- ... akers+Spin)&m=1

[Ruzious]

The big problem the Lakers have is that a couple of their likely best moves to clean up the mess would be PR disasters.
The huge one would be amnestying Kobe Bryant.
I also think a S&T of Dwight Howard to the Clippers is something Howard might go for and could get the best return the Lakers could get(DeAndre Jordan & Bledsoe?). For Howard it would be the easiest way for him to play on the same team as Chris Paul.

The Lakers are a mess.

Kobe will take up half their cap next year and probably won't play; then he's a UFA and he's 72 years old.
Howard may leave for nothing.
The picked a terrible coach for their personnel.
Gasol is old.

They have no first round pick this year, in 2015 or 2017. They have no second rounders in '14 or '15.

The Lakers nightmare has to be Houston getting Howard for nothing but cap space. They probably wouldn't mind him going to the Clippers - considering they might Blake for him. But if he goes to Houston, it's probably time to blow it all up. And if you were Howard - who would you rather play with - Kobe - who acts like it's a huge sacrifice to get Howard involved in the offense, a low assist PG like Bledsoe, or the best in the NBA at setting up his teammates - Paul? If Houston gets Paul, it's an easy choice - if the cap room is there to make him happy.

Interesting stats on Pau, CCJ. I wouldn't mind trading him for Okafor and an EG kid or 2 (would likely have to be a 3 way trade - as the Lakers wouldn't be interested in Okafor). If he shows he still has it, maybe we can re-sign him at a reasonable rate - given his age. Otherwise, let him go and have cap space - just as we would likely do with Okafor. As much as Pau respects Kobe, I think it'd be a relief for him to not play with him.

[LyricalRico]

Interesting stats on Pau, CCJ. I wouldn't mind trading him for Okafor and an EG kid or 2 (would likely have to be a 3 way trade - as the Lakers wouldn't be interested in Okafor). If he shows he still has it, maybe we can re-sign him at a reasonable rate - given his age. Otherwise, let him go and have cap space - just as we would likely do with Okafor. As much as Pau respects Kobe, I think it'd be a relief for him to not play with him.

If we could acquire Pau with Nene being the one getting moved it would be even better. Still would probably have to include a third team, though. Somebody that doesn't mind adding Nene's contract, but doesn't have the means to fit Pau's salary under the cap. Resurrect the Brooklyn idea?

Wizards trade: Nene, Ariza, and Seraphin
Wizards receive: Pau Gasol

Nets trade: Humphries and Brooks
Nets receive: Nene

Lakers trade: Pau Gasol
Lakers receive: Humphries, Brooks, Ariza, and Seraphin

[verbal8]

Interesting stats on Pau, CCJ. I wouldn't mind trading him for Okafor and an EG kid or 2 (would likely have to be a 3 way trade - as the Lakers wouldn't be interested in Okafor). If he shows he still has it, maybe we can re-sign him at a reasonable rate - given his age. Otherwise, let him go and have cap space - just as we would likely do with Okafor. As much as Pau respects Kobe, I think it'd be a relief for him to not play with him.

If we could acquire Pau with Nene being the one getting moved it would be even better. Still would probably have to include a third team, though. Somebody that doesn't mind adding Nene's contract, but doesn't have the means to fit Pau's salary under the cap. Resurrect the Brooklyn idea?

Wizards trade: Nene, Ariza, and Seraphin
Wizards receive: Pau Gasol

Nets trade: Humphries and Brooks
Nets receive: Nene

Lakers trade: Pau Gasol
Lakers receive: Humphries, Brooks, Ariza, and Seraphin

I don't think Ariza is included in the deal. If it is done before July 1st(without Ariza), it saves the Lakers over $15 million in luxury tax payments. I think the Nets probably insist on at least the 38th pick since they are taking on Nene's deal.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

LR, getting Pau for Nene is better because Nene's feet do not portend improvement.

Ruz, I would like Pau for Emeka and two of EGs kids. We get a HOF player on a playoff-bound team.

[verbal8]

It looks like the Doc Rivers to Clippers deal is dead:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... th-Celtics

Adrian Wojnarowski reports that the Clippers had "cold feet" on the financial aspects of the deal. The Clippers refused to give in to the Celtics' demands for a second first round pick, but Rivers' $35 million contract over five seasons and Jordan's $3 million trade kicker proved too expensive.

I wonder if this means that Chris Paul leaves. This deal would have required giving up significant assets and taking on costs, but I am pretty sure it actually would have kept Paul with the Clippers. It also would have made them an attractive destination for Pierce.

[LyricalRico]

^ Agree that Chris Paul is more likely to leave now (Dallas would make the most sense IMO, unless Paul can get Howard to go with him to Atlanta in a package deal). But what about BOS? I can't really see Doc coaching them next season. Will KG want out now? Do they waive Pierce to save money? Or do they try to move KG/PP in a package deal?

A few destinations for KG+PP off the top of my head:

- Atlanta: Only if they strike out on Howard and Paul. Would keep them competitive while they regroup.

- Indy: Would mean letting David West walk and moving Paul George back to SG, and could only be good for a year. Any deal would have to involve Granger, but not sure Boston would want him.

- Chicago: Would certainly fit in with their already existing style. Maybe Boston would want Deng, but what would happen to Boozer?

- Dallas: Again, only of they strike out on Howard and Paul. KG is as much of a C as anyone else they have on their roster, and they could have 3 HOFers playing out their twilight together.

[Ruzious]

LR, getting Pau for Nene is better because Nene's feet do not portend improvement.

Ruz, I would like Pau for Emeka and two of EGs kids. We get a HOF player on a playoff-bound team.

I always need a reason for hope, so I prefer to trade Okafor rather than Nene. I don't trade Nene unless his foot doesn't improve - so I wait, because only time will tell unless the doctor knows something. Okafor is a solid dependable player, but Nene is more than that when he's healthy. To me, trading Nene is almost like giving up and truly not having a goal to be more than a .500 team. Nene and Pau together might not end well, but at least it's taking a chance at something real good.

[rockymac52]

I don't understand why Paul would want to leave the Clippers, unless he's joining a legit super team, probably with Dwight Howard. But the Mavericks? Yawn. They have an aging Dirk, an old ass Vince Carter, and an old ass Shawn Marion. That's really all Dallas has left on their roster. Yeah, there's no income tax in Texas, so there might be some appeal there, but still, I'd much rather still get paid max money and be in LA on the same team as Blake Griffin. I don't see him leaving.

[Ruzious]

I don't understand why Paul would want to leave the Clippers, unless he's joining a legit super team, probably with Dwight Howard. But the Mavericks? Yawn. They have an aging Dirk, an old ass Vince Carter, and an old ass Shawn Marion. That's really all Dallas has left on their roster. Yeah, there's no income tax in Texas, so there might be some appeal there, but still, I'd much rather still get paid max money and be in LA on the same team as Blake Griffin. I don't see him leaving.

There's no state income tax for the Rockets, too. Playing with Harden and Howard (assuming Paul and Howard go together) plus some interesting young players - and maybe something they can get for Lin... I think that's where he ends up if Morey can work things out.

[rockymac52]

I don't understand why Paul would want to leave the Clippers, unless he's joining a legit super team, probably with Dwight Howard. But the Mavericks? Yawn. They have an aging Dirk, an old ass Vince Carter, and an old ass Shawn Marion. That's really all Dallas has left on their roster. Yeah, there's no income tax in Texas, so there might be some appeal there, but still, I'd much rather still get paid max money and be in LA on the same team as Blake Griffin. I don't see him leaving.

There's no state income tax for the Rockets, too. Playing with Harden and Howard (assuming Paul and Howard go together) plus some interesting young players - and maybe something they can get for Lin... I think that's where he ends up if Morey can work things out.

If Morey can find a way to make it work, then by all means, teaming up with Howard and Harden in a state with no income tax is a pretty damn good idea. Can't really argue with that.

It'll be hard for Morey to pull that off though, although I'm sure he has a plan in the works. Assuming they renounce all their non-guaranteed contracts except for Parsons and maybe Smith or Beverley, they can afford to pay one of Dwight or Paul a max contract under the cap. But then they're going to have to trade away Asik and Lin in order to clear up enough room to sign the other. It can be done, it's just going to get real messy.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

LR, getting Pau for Nene is better because Nene's feet do not portend improvement.

Ruz, I would like Pau for Emeka and two of EGs kids. We get a HOF player on a playoff-bound team.

I always need a reason for hope, so I prefer to trade Okafor rather than Nene. I don't trade Nene unless his foot doesn't improve - so I wait, because only time will tell unless the doctor knows something. Okafor is a solid dependable player, but Nene is more than that when he's healthy. To me, trading Nene is almost like giving up and truly not having a goal to be more than a .500 team. Nene and Pau together might not end well, but at least it's taking a chance at something real good.

I think with Pau you also need to add an upgrade, defensive C from this draft. Dieng and Adams come to mind.

[LyricalRico]

Okay, so the BOS-LAC madness has resumed - thanks to CP3:

With a full understanding that free agent Chris Paul wants this deal completed, the Los Angeles Clippers re-engaged the Boston Celtics on the Kevin Garnett-Doc Rivers negotiations on Wednesday afternoon, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

<snip>

"The money is not a hang-up in this right now," a league source told Yahoo! Sports. "It's about the draft pick."

The Celtics have insisted on two first-round draft picks in the deal, but the Clippers have wanted to include only one.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--clipp ... 20148.html

Haven't seen Bledsoe's name come up as part of these rumors lately, so I'm assuming he's out of it. Saw somewhere else that they could send him to Orlando for Arron Afflalo (which, combined with the #2, could solve Orlando's backcourt issues for years to come). They'd have to include Butler to make the numbers work...which would then open the SF spot for one Paul Pierce if he is waived by Boston.

Garnett
Griffin
Pierce
Afflalo
Paul

They'd definitely be primed for a one year run at a title IMO. I actually think KG and Griffin might work better than many think because Garnett can draw the opposing C away from the basket, as opposed to Jordan who was competing with Griffin for lobs. There could be defensive issues, but KG's positional defense could trump Jordan's shot blocking.

[Ruzious]

LR, getting Pau for Nene is better because Nene's feet do not portend improvement.

Ruz, I would like Pau for Emeka and two of EGs kids. We get a HOF player on a playoff-bound team.

I always need a reason for hope, so I prefer to trade Okafor rather than Nene. I don't trade Nene unless his foot doesn't improve - so I wait, because only time will tell unless the doctor knows something. Okafor is a solid dependable player, but Nene is more than that when he's healthy. To me, trading Nene is almost like giving up and truly not having a goal to be more than a .500 team. Nene and Pau together might not end well, but at least it's taking a chance at something real good.

I think with Pau you also need to add an upgrade, defensive C from this draft. Dieng and Adams come to mind.

Well, these old crafty bigs aren't shot-blockers, but understanding positioning more than makes up for it. Duncan's still got it. I think Pau, Nene, and Okafor are all very capable big-game defenders. Maybe Adams will be... someday. My guess is that he spends most of next season in the D League. I continue to like Whithey a lot more than most do - just wish he had a bit more bulk.

[verbal8]

Haven't seen Bledsoe's name come up as part of these rumors lately, so I'm assuming he's out of it. Saw somewhere else that they could send him to Orlando for Arron Afflalo (which, combined with the #2, could solve Orlando's backcourt issues for years to come). They'd have to include Butler to make the numbers work...which would then open the SF spot for one Paul Pierce if he is waived by Boston.

I definitely think Pierce ends up on the Clippers for the MLE if the River-Garnett deal goes down.

Not sure about the Afflalo deal, he has been a good player, but last season was disappointing. He also is owed over $22 million over 3 years. I don't know that he is that much of an upgrade over Jamal Crawford to be worth giving up Bledsoe. I think his trade value isn't much more than Butler. I wonder if it is a 3 way deal that adds on to the Celtics-Clipper deal with Afflalo ending up in Boston and Lee or Terry ending up with the Clippers.