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2014 Draft Prospects Thread

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Re: 2014 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#1241 » by AQuintus » Tue Jun 3, 2014 7:21 pm

Feilong wrote:-I could forgive 42%FT if he was a 7'0 center but i simply cannot understand how a SF cannot shoot FTs.


HE'S NOT A SF.

There. I hope that helps.

-Without opponents i was referring to FTs


Seriously? You're ignoring all of the other things that he does at a good to great level and obsessing over FTs? Seriously?

-It doesn't matter how someone shoots.


It absolutely does. Good form suggests that improvement shouldn't be difficult.

Does it matter that Martin shoots from his belly? No, because he is efficient.


Yes. It matters because bad form requires much more work to become a good shooter.

Does it matter that Noah shoots with a spin? No, because he is efficient.


Absolutely. Noah is not now, nor will he ever be a high level shooter because of his bad form.

Does it matter that Dirk shoots from behind his head? No, because he is efficient.
Does it matter that Fisher shoots rainbow/high arc shots? No, because he is efficient.


No, because neither of those are bad form.

When someone is terrible shooter then you look what is wrong? Strength, psychology, mechanics etc.
If he is efficient no one cares.


Well, yeah. :-? Gordon is an inefficient shooter, so you look at why. The answer is that his form needs some minor tweaks (unlike MGK, who you compared him to by posting that Hoopshype article), and he needs more time in the gym practicing. Odds are that he'll improve.

-He wants to play SF, he has the height of a SF and he has the quickness of a SF. Why he is forced to play PF?


It doesn't matter what he wants. He's a PF, he'll be drafted to play PF, so he'll play PF.
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Re: 2014 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#1242 » by Feilong » Tue Jun 3, 2014 7:25 pm

Ok you convinced me. Let's pick Gordon... :sarcasm:
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Re: 2014 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#1243 » by Klomp » Tue Jun 3, 2014 7:34 pm

Feilong wrote:Ok you convinced me. Let's pick Gordon... :sarcasm:

You're the guy who would've passed on Shaquille O'Neal for Christian Laettner in 1992 because of poor free throw shooting, aren't you...
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Re: 2014 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#1244 » by Feilong » Tue Jun 3, 2014 7:36 pm

Klomp wrote:
Feilong wrote:Ok you convinced me. Let's pick Gordon... :sarcasm:

You're the guy who would've passed on Shaquille O'Neal for Christian Laettner in 1992 because of poor free throw shooting, aren't you...


Are you drunk?
Shaq was a 7`2 beast. What is the similarity between Shaq and Gordon?
Are you comparing Shaq and Gordon because i am confused.
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Re: 2014 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#1245 » by Klomp » Tue Jun 3, 2014 7:39 pm

Feilong wrote:What is the similarity between Shaq and Gordon?

Poor free throw shooting, which you seem to think is the most important quality in a prospect the way you keep harping on it.

And no, I'm not drunk.
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Re: 2014 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#1246 » by Feilong » Tue Jun 3, 2014 7:41 pm

It is not even worth commenting.
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Re: 2014 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#1247 » by AQuintus » Tue Jun 3, 2014 7:45 pm

Feilong wrote:It is not even worth commenting.


Because you have no comment. You dislike Gordon as a prospect (which is fine) apparently due to lingering issues with the D-Will pick, however, you can't find any major faults with Gordon outside of his free throw shooting, so you're latching on to it and overstating it as a problem.
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Re: 2014 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#1248 » by Feilong » Tue Jun 3, 2014 7:55 pm

What can i say, for me shooting is vital when i look for a top6 pick in a loaded draft.
And i don't think i am the only one. Most sites have him as the worst of the 3 (Vonleh, Randle, Gordon).
DX has him at #10.
Can he be an all-star? Yes, but the chances are low and risk is really high.
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Re: 2014 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#1249 » by Takingbaconback » Tue Jun 3, 2014 7:56 pm

Wow really Shaq? First of all Shaq shot a better FT% than 42% and his dominance erased all his liabilities.

Even Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, and Blake Griffin can't over come their FT shooting to be a trustworthy efficient player in the fourth quarter, how are you so sure Gordon will? When he misses easy bunnies in the paint, he is a passive player who has to force aggression, he isn't a good shooter, and when he can't post up anybody in college basketball.

There are huge liabilities to this guy and that's how you build a team that won't succeed in professional basketball. We already got one of the most offensively limited PGs in Rubio who already needs very specific players around him to succeed, Gordon is a risky questionable pick. Granted, everyone at the 6th spot is a risky questionable pick but this dismissal of all his flaws for undeserved hype has got to go. There is nothing that says this guy is definitively better than Vonleh or Randle whether we are talking about skillset, stats, or the eye test.
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Re: 2014 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#1250 » by Takingbaconback » Tue Jun 3, 2014 8:05 pm

AQuintus wrote:
Feilong wrote:It is not even worth commenting.


Because you have no comment. You dislike Gordon as a prospect (which is fine) apparently due to lingering issues with the D-Will pick, however, you can't find any major faults with Gordon outside of his free throw shooting, so you're latching on to it and overstating it as a problem.


No major faults with Gordon outside of his free throw shooting?

-His free throw shooting is horrible (42.2%)
-He shrinks from big moments and his offensive game just crumbles
-He isn't skilled with the ball (Better than some PFs in the NBA though)
-Can't create his own offense
-Terrible looking bricks at times
-Can't score in the post
-Disappears for long stretches
-Misses bunnies in the lane way too many times for a player of his caliber
-Good enough stroke but there's a hitch that makes him a bad fundamental shooter
-A lot more passive than he should be and loses control when he is forced to be aggressive.

There are real flaws with this guy. Go download some U of A games and tell me how many times you see him disappear, or put up ugly bricks, or get locked down in the post, or is playing very passively, or miss easy layups. I'm not just saying this because I hate him, it is because I have seen a pattern with him and the pattern exhibits troubling liabilities which can cripple a NBA team especially one that already is going with Rubio.
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Re: 2014 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#1251 » by AQuintus » Tue Jun 3, 2014 8:09 pm

Takingbaconback wrote:
No major faults with Gordon outside of his free throw shooting?

-His free throw shooting is horrible (42.2%)


:lol:


-He shrinks from big moments and his offensive game just crumbles


Not true. Edit: Can you post some examples, please?

-He isn't skilled with the ball


Not true.

-Terrible looking bricks at times


Same is true for everyone.

-Can't score in the post


Sort of true. His post game is limited but improvable (like his shooting), but he should be able to dunk from the post from day 1.

-Disappears for long stretches


Already mentioned above. Edit: Examples?

-Misses bunnies in the lane way too many times for a player of his caliber


True enough, I suppose, but the same is true of Vonleh and Randle. Edit: Heck, the same is true of Pekovic, and he's a very good player.

-Good enough stroke but there's a hitch that makes him a bad fundamental shooter


I'll have to watch his shooting more, but I don't see the hitch.

-A lot more passive than he should be and loses control when he is forced to be aggressive.


Don't think this is true, either. Edit: Examples?
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Re: 2014 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#1252 » by Feilong » Tue Jun 3, 2014 8:13 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KevinDing/status/473917215113506816[/tweet]

Wow.
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Re: 2014 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#1253 » by AQuintus » Tue Jun 3, 2014 8:15 pm

Feilong wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/KevinDing/status/473917215113506816[/tweet]

Wow.


It's too bad that Gordon and Vonleh aren't in the same workout. It would be interesting (and perhaps telling) to see them matched up against each other.

Also, that looks like the kind of workout Minnesota should be having if Minnesota gets the 6th pick. Half of those guys are in play at 6, and the other half are in play at 13.
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Re: 2014 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#1254 » by Feilong » Tue Jun 3, 2014 8:18 pm

^
I agree. I hope Lakers will release lots of videos.
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Re: 2014 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#1255 » by Takingbaconback » Tue Jun 3, 2014 8:41 pm

I can't really show you evidence of him disappearing for 6-7 minutes or him being a passive player who becomes inefficient when force to be aggressive. That is something you gotta watch through games to see.

And yes I said he handles the ball better than some PFs in the NBA but he still can't control the ball. When defenders get physical, he loses control and ends up with a bad approach to a shot.

It is similar as people commenting that a ILB is a "good coverage LB". Most of that talk is worthless because basically all LBs can't cover a RB out of the backfield, a WR, or a Tight End in today's NFL. It doesn't matter if Gordon can dribble better than some PFs, he is still nowhere near having the ability to use it in a half court offense, not to mention it is coupled with the way he shoots the ball.

Yeah I saw that one highlight with him going down the court and laying it up but that is going to happen once in the NBA every 3 games if that. He isn't going to dribble or control the ball in the NBA for the forseeable future, he's just going to get it stripped or bodied up and turn it over.

And those bricks don't happen as often as it does for Gordon. Which is another similarity he has with Griffin. He has these terrible shots out of nowhere more than most people in the NBA.
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Re: 2014 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#1256 » by Klomp » Tue Jun 3, 2014 9:09 pm

Takingbaconback wrote:Even Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, and Blake Griffin can't over come their FT shooting to be a trustworthy efficient player in the fourth quarter, how are you so sure Gordon will? When he misses easy bunnies in the paint, he is a passive player who has to force aggression, he isn't a good shooter, and when he can't post up anybody in college basketball.

I wouldn't draft Gordon expecting him to be a go-to player in the fourth quarter though. I realize that probably won't be his game, but thats not why I'm drafting him.
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Re: 2014 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#1257 » by AQuintus » Tue Jun 3, 2014 9:20 pm

Klomp wrote:I wouldn't draft Gordon expecting him to be a go-to player in the fourth quarter though. I realize that probably won't be his game, but thats not why I'm drafting him.


We (or any team really) shouldn't be drafting a big man with the expectation that they'll be the go-to guy in the 4th. And that's not just Gordon, but also Vonleh, Randle, Love, Griffen, Duncan, Garnett, and Shaq, etc.
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Re: 2014 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#1258 » by Klomp » Tue Jun 3, 2014 9:25 pm

AQuintus wrote:
Klomp wrote:I wouldn't draft Gordon expecting him to be a go-to player in the fourth quarter though. I realize that probably won't be his game, but thats not why I'm drafting him.


We (or any team really) shouldn't be drafting a big man with the expectation that they'll be the go-to guy in the 4th. And that's not just Gordon, but also Vonleh, Randle, Love, Griffen, Duncan, Garnett, and Shaq, etc.

Exactly.

We need to get out of that mindset. Just because Love did it doesn't mean the next guy has to. Its actually better if he isn't that guy because its much easier for a defense to scheme against a post player.
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Re: 2014 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#1259 » by AQuintus » Tue Jun 3, 2014 9:36 pm

Klomp wrote: Just because Love did it doesn't mean the next guy has to.


Especially since when Love did it, it failed miserably and was a big part of the reason the team was so bad in close games.

It's another point against Adelman as head coach this last year. For some reason, despite it not working, the team consistently tried to iso Love late in close games. If we would have just stuck with trying to run the regular offense (like the Spurs tend to do), we would have been much better off.
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Re: 2014 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#1260 » by MinneOOPalis » Tue Jun 3, 2014 10:48 pm

Aaron Gordon isn't just a bad shooter. He lacks any type of touch around the rim. Alley-oops don't count.

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