Deandre Ayton news and highlights

[Saberestar]

Hitting them in the low to mid 30's would be fine. It's all about getting to a point where defenders have to stay honest and guard him out there. That's what opens up the space in the lane for his teammates.

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Even at 35% compared to 60% for 2, you are losing 1.5 points, but probably coaches are dumb enough and will not let him just shoot the 3.

Then you lose on offensive boards, already pointed out for Warren, same will happen with Deandre.

Then wing players lose a target in the post on their drives.

And it's not like Ayton is not setting picks around the 3 point line like half of the time. If his defender is not guarding the pick then the wing can just shoot the 3 instead of your C. I didn't see many centers in the 3pt contest last night.

Good ball-movement and set plays are much more important than moving a C, who can already hit a long 2 behind the 3pt line.

I'm not implying that he should become Brook Lopez and bomb 8 a game. Variety is a trait of good offenses, being able to run some clear outs where his man doesn't sag into the paint adds another thing you can do to an opponent.

Plus the further out his guy has to guard him it opens up bigger passing lanes for cutters. Right now when he catches at the arc his defender sags to the foul line clogging things up.

Oh and he's not hitting long 2s at a 60% clip so a 3 at 35% is a better shot.

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I agree.

Every great big man nowadays can score from three. It can not be a coincidence.

A. Davis, Embiid, Jokic, Towns, Porzingis, Cousins....all of them are good enough from the three point line and that makes them better players.

Ayton NEEDS to improve his shooting to be considered a great big.

I think that he is not shooting well enough at practice, so they do not want to put more pressure at him and they are gonna wait until the summer to work on his 3p shooting.

Overall defense and shooting are the two areas that he needs to get right before the start of the next season.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Even at 35% compared to 60% for 2, you are losing 1.5 points, but probably coaches are dumb enough and will not let him just shoot the 3.

Then you lose on offensive boards, already pointed out for Warren, same will happen with Deandre.

Then wing players lose a target in the post on their drives.

And it's not like Ayton is not setting picks around the 3 point line like half of the time. If his defender is not guarding the pick then the wing can just shoot the 3 instead of your C. I didn't see many centers in the 3pt contest last night.

Good ball-movement and set plays are much more important than moving a C, who can already hit a long 2 behind the 3pt line.

I'm not implying that he should become Brook Lopez and bomb 8 a game. Variety is a trait of good offenses, being able to run some clear outs where his man doesn't sag into the paint adds another thing you can do to an opponent.

Oh and he's not hitting long 2s at a 60% clip so a 3 at 35% is a better shot.

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Nowhere did I say he's hitting long 2s at 60%.

Just saying, him shooting 1-2 threes at 30-35% will not change anything. Good ball-movement/coaching will.

I'm all for ball movement. Spacing helps movement and makes it more impactful.


Heck him being able to hit 3s can indirectly help their D too. It's nearly impossible to have run an effective O if the other team doesn't have to guard either of your 4 and 5 on the perimeter so if Ayton isn't a threat out there the 4 man needs to be. But if he became one it would allow them to play a big defensive 4 with him longer minutes.

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[bwgood77]

I haven’t seen many posts advocating Ayton to take 3s right now. There are however many posts saying he needs to add a 3 ball to his game.

That being said, pre draft, the Ayton crowd was saying he could shoot 3s better than Doncic.

Yeah, I see a few people on twitter saying he should shoot 3s now, but like you, I think it would be nice to see add to his game and hope he can by some time next year, as it will really help the team as a whole and make him much more valuable, but he's got to be able to hit them at a good %. You don't want a C shooting them unless they can hit at near 40%.

40% ? Jokic and Embiid are at 30%.

Eventually, if it holds, they shouldn't shoot as much from out there any more. Jokic was at near 40% last year. Embiid probably shouldn't shoot as many as he does out there if he continues to drop. Otherwise people will just let them shoot them. Above 35% is probably ok, but being that he is near 60% right now, you really don't want him much lower than 40%, though if defenders respect him out there, it willl still help the team.

[bwgood77]

Some good plays by Ayton...

Read on Twitter

[Saberestar]

Some good plays by Ayton...

Read on Twitter

The problem with Ayton is that he is looking like the third or fourth best player out of this draft. And he was selected #1.

Doncic obviously looks better, and after him Trae Young looks like the second best rookie.

After these two, it is close between Ayton and Jaren Jackson Jr.

That is why people (like me) are a bit down on Ayton. He is good, but Doncic and Trae are GREAT and really fun to watch as a playmakers.

[bwgood77]

Some good plays by Ayton...

Read on Twitter

The problem with Ayton is that he is looking like the third or fourth best player out of this draft. And he was selected #1.

Doncic obviously looks better, and after him Trae Young looks like the second best rookie.

After these two, it is close between Ayton and Jaren Jackson Jr.

That is why people (like me) are a bit down on Ayton. He is good, but Doncic and Trae are GREAT and really fun to watch as a playmakers.

They are all about what I expected. Ayton's actually played better than I expected in some respects. But I was used to being very frustrated watching him since I felt he always put up nice #s at UA but I never got a total feel that he was really impacting the game in a win/loss type of way. If you're the man in the middle, your best chance at doing that is defensively.

If we really wanted to be able to utilize him to dominate offensively, while not having a 3 pt shot, we'd need to surround him with 3 pt shooters, but being the worst 3 pt shooting team in the league, and playing with JJ, Oubre, etc, makes it near impossible for an inside big to dominate. To keep his % where it is at on the worst 3 pt shooting team, is actually pretty impressive.

[Saberestar]

Some good plays by Ayton...

Read on Twitter

The problem with Ayton is that he is looking like the third or fourth best player out of this draft. And he was selected #1.

Doncic obviously looks better, and after him Trae Young looks like the second best rookie.

After these two, it is close between Ayton and Jaren Jackson Jr.

That is why people (like me) are a bit down on Ayton. He is good, but Doncic and Trae are GREAT and really fun to watch as a playmakers.

They are all about what I expected. Ayton's actually played better than I expected in some respects. But I was used to being very frustrated watching him since I felt he always put up nice #s at UA but I never got a total feel that he was really impacting the game in a win/loss type of way. If you're the man in the middle, your best chance at doing that is defensively.

If we really wanted to be able to utilize him to dominate offensively, while not having a 3 pt shot, we'd need to surround him with 3 pt shooters, but being the worst 3 pt shooting team in the league, and playing with JJ, Oubre, etc, makes it near impossible for an inside big to dominate. To keep his % where it is at on the worst 3 pt shooting team, is actually pretty impressive.

What I want to say is that he is not looking the best player from this draft and he was selected #1.

He does not look even the second best player from this draft.

That is disappointing.

[bwgood77]

The problem with Ayton is that he is looking like the third or fourth best player out of this draft. And he was selected #1.

Doncic obviously looks better, and after him Trae Young looks like the second best rookie.

After these two, it is close between Ayton and Jaren Jackson Jr.

That is why people (like me) are a bit down on Ayton. He is good, but Doncic and Trae are GREAT and really fun to watch as a playmakers.

They are all about what I expected. Ayton's actually played better than I expected in some respects. But I was used to being very frustrated watching him since I felt he always put up nice #s at UA but I never got a total feel that he was really impacting the game in a win/loss type of way. If you're the man in the middle, your best chance at doing that is defensively.

If we really wanted to be able to utilize him to dominate offensively, while not having a 3 pt shot, we'd need to surround him with 3 pt shooters, but being the worst 3 pt shooting team in the league, and playing with JJ, Oubre, etc, makes it near impossible for an inside big to dominate. To keep his % where it is at on the worst 3 pt shooting team, is actually pretty impressive.

What I want to say is that he is not looking the best player from this draft and he was selected #1.

He does not look even the second best player from this draft.

That is disappointing.

Well I didn't expect that. Obviously every year you'd like to end up with the best player. I think he should end up top 5 at least though...maybe top 2, which is obviously better than you can say about any of our other recent high picks.

[Saberestar]

They are all about what I expected. Ayton's actually played better than I expected in some respects. But I was used to being very frustrated watching him since I felt he always put up nice #s at UA but I never got a total feel that he was really impacting the game in a win/loss type of way. If you're the man in the middle, your best chance at doing that is defensively.

If we really wanted to be able to utilize him to dominate offensively, while not having a 3 pt shot, we'd need to surround him with 3 pt shooters, but being the worst 3 pt shooting team in the league, and playing with JJ, Oubre, etc, makes it near impossible for an inside big to dominate. To keep his % where it is at on the worst 3 pt shooting team, is actually pretty impressive.

What I want to say is that he is not looking the best player from this draft and he was selected #1.

He does not look even the second best player from this draft.

That is disappointing.

Well I didn't expect that. Obviously every year you'd like to end up with the best player. I think he should end up top 5 at least though...maybe top 2, which is obviously better than you can say about any of our other recent high picks.

Well... that is another point of view.

[cberry78]

Here's an article from 2015, with the top draft classes of "all time".

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/hca/06/15/the-list-top-five-draft-classes/

Assuming that the 2018 Draft was close to as good as any of those, how many of you whiners are going to b**** and moan about having the 2nd or 3rd best players from the top 5 picks of any of those drafts?

[DirtyDez]

Here's an article from 2015, with the top draft classes of "all time".

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/hca/06/15/the-list-top-five-draft-classes/

Assuming that the 2018 Draft was close to as good as any of those, how many of you whiners are going to b**** and moan about having the 2nd or 3rd best players from the top 5 picks of any of those drafts?

The 09’ draft will go down top-5 all time...

Griffin
Harden
Curry
Holiday
Derozan

Spoiler:

Terrence Williams

Edit: Just saw that article is old

[lilfishi22]

Here's an article from 2015, with the top draft classes of "all time".

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/hca/06/15/the-list-top-five-draft-classes/

Assuming that the 2018 Draft was close to as good as any of those, how many of you whiners are going to b**** and moan about having the 2nd or 3rd best players from the top 5 picks of any of those drafts?

The 09’ draft will go down top-5 all time...

Griffin
Harden
Curry
Holiday
Derozan

Spoiler:

Terrence Williams

Edit: Just saw that article is old

I was so happy we took Clark over Daye

[sunskerr]

Im just finding it really hard to come around on Ayton. I get it, he has a lot of potential. But to me, and to a lot of people, he doesn't seem to really have many, if any, skills that are relevant to the NBA beyond being able to sometimes stay in front of guards 1 on 1 on the perimeter. That means to achieve that potential there is so much work to be done.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Im just finding it really hard to come around on Ayton. I get it, he has a lot of potential. But to me, and to a lot of people, he doesn't seem to really have many, if any, skills that are relevant to the NBA beyond being able to sometimes stay in front of guards 1 on 1 on the perimeter. That means to achieve that potential there is so much work to be done.

He scores with elite efficiency. He's a great rebounder. Great passing instincts and execution. Very good hands. Amazing from a character perspective. I see a very good NBA player with tons of room for growth and an exceptionally high ceiling.

[lilfishi22]

Im just finding it really hard to come around on Ayton. I get it, he has a lot of potential. But to me, and to a lot of people, he doesn't seem to really have many, if any, skills that are relevant to the NBA beyond being able to sometimes stay in front of guards 1 on 1 on the perimeter. That means to achieve that potential there is so much work to be done.

He's really skilled but he's also missing some key skills that allows him to chain those offensive weapons he has together. Not being able to put the ball on the court really hurts his offense and not consistently creating space on offense to receive the ball makes it harder for him to get the ball.

He has a lot of work to do which is I think both a surprise to some but also expected by others. There were a lot here that was sure that he'd come in on Day One and be unstoppable because he's bigger, more skilled and more athletic than 95% of his competition in the NBA. Then there were others who were a lot more conservative in their projections of his skill set going into the NBA season. I think those who were a lot more conservative in their projections of him (as I was) and ranked him accordingly among other draft prospects is pretty much seeing what they had expected so I think a lot of us are not really pulling their hairs out about where Ayton is currently. There are also those who were really high on him that still are really high on him who are still confident he'll eventually turn into an all-NBA player.

There are of course the camp (made up of two groups) which consists of those who hated Ayton pre-draft and nothing he's done has changed their mind and also those who loved Ayton pre-draft and his play this season has turned them against him.

Not sure which camp you fall into but regardless, Ayton has A LOT of work to do and I think most can agree he's probably not quite as far along as most had hoped. It's just whether you're optimistic about his development or not going forward. Personally, I'm staying conservative but I don't really have a choice but to root for the guy because if he doesn't turn into an all-NBA level player while Luka is already a near all-star level guy as a 19yo, then we really **** up

[lilfishi22]

Im just finding it really hard to come around on Ayton. I get it, he has a lot of potential. But to me, and to a lot of people, he doesn't seem to really have many, if any, skills that are relevant to the NBA beyond being able to sometimes stay in front of guards 1 on 1 on the perimeter. That means to achieve that potential there is so much work to be done.

He scores with elite efficiency. He's a great rebounder. Great passing instincts and execution. Very good hands. Amazing from a character perspective. I see a very good NBA player with tons of room for growth and an exceptionally high ceiling.

Could you elaborate on this point?

[sunskerr]

Im just finding it really hard to come around on Ayton. I get it, he has a lot of potential. But to me, and to a lot of people, he doesn't seem to really have many, if any, skills that are relevant to the NBA beyond being able to sometimes stay in front of guards 1 on 1 on the perimeter. That means to achieve that potential there is so much work to be done.

He's really skilled but he's also missing some key skills that allows him to chain those offensive weapons he has together. Not being able to put the ball on the court really hurts his offense and not consistently creating space on offense to receive the ball makes it harder for him to get the ball.

He has a lot of work to do which is I think both a surprise to some but also expected by others. There were a lot here that was sure that he'd come in on Day One and be unstoppable because he's bigger, more skilled and more athletic than 95% of his competition in the NBA. Then there were others who were a lot more conservative in their projections of his skill set going into the NBA season. I think those who were a lot more conservative in their projections of him (as I was) and ranked him accordingly among other draft prospects is pretty much seeing what they had expected so I think a lot of us are not really pulling their hairs out about where Ayton is currently. There are also those who were really high on him that still are really high on him who are still confident he'll eventually turn into an all-NBA player.

There are of course the camp (made up of two groups) which consists of those who hated Ayton pre-draft and nothing he's done has changed their mind and also those who loved Ayton pre-draft and his play season has turned them against him.

Not sure which camp you fall into regardless, Ayton has A LOT of work to do and I think most can agree he's probably not quite as far as long as most had hoped. It's just whether you're optimistic about his development or not going forward. Personally, I'm staying conservative but I don't really have a choice but to root for the guy because if he doesn't turn into an all-NBA level player while Luka is already a near all-star level guy as a 19yo, then we really **** up

Yeah that’s the thing. We just have to root for him because there aren’t any options. Well, we do have one option, and that is to trade him which I wouldn’t be opposed to doing at all if the returning asset was a young star point guard. In fact I think we should try to do that.

As far as skills go, I could never get behind drafting a player at #1 who can’t dribble the ball. I agree with you that if he learned to put the ball on the floor it would open up a lot for him. Even just a pump fake and 1 or 2 dribbles. Then of course there’s the three which he’ll have to work on this summer.

With rebounding, if anyone can shed light on how impactful his rebounding is that would be helpful. Because aside from shooting, we’re also the worst rebounding team in the league which means one of two things: 1) that Ayton is a good rebounder and the rest of the team is truely god awful and 2) he gets inflated rebounding numbers from easy rebounds and doesn’t do a good job boxing out. Both these scenarios seem possible to me.

As for defense, well that’s probably where I’m most concerned because that’s the most important thing. If he never gets those other skills on offense mentioned above, then he’d still be playable if he develops better defensive skills.

Where this all sort of leads to is that I really don’t want this team to extend a max offer to a big man who isn’t good on defense. If we want to actually compete for a championship he will have to learn defense.

[sunsbg]

Yeah that’s the thing. We just have to root for him because there aren’t any options. Well, we do have one option, and that is to trade him which I wouldn’t be opposed to doing at all if the returning asset was a young star point guard. In fact I think we should try to do that.

As far as skills go, I could never get behind drafting a player at #1 who can’t dribble the ball. I agree with you that if he learned to put the ball on the floor it would open up a lot for him. Even just a pump fake and 1 or 2 dribbles. Then of course there’s the three which he’ll have to work on this summer.

With rebounding, if anyone can shed light on how impactful his rebounding is that would be helpful. Because aside from shooting, we’re also the worst rebounding team in the league which means one of two things: 1) that Ayton is a good rebounder and the rest of the team is truely god awful and 2) he gets inflated rebounding numbers from easy rebounds and doesn’t do a good job boxing out. Both these scenarios seem possible to me.

As for defense, well that’s probably where I’m most concerned because that’s the most important thing. If he never gets those other skills on offense mentioned above, then he’d still be playable if he develops better defensive skills.

Where this all sort of leads to is that I really don’t want this team to extend a max offer to a big man who isn’t good on defense. If we want to actually compete for a championship he will have to learn defense.

How many games have you watched ? If more than one, you should know the answer here.

Ayton is a good rebounder. Can he improve ? Sure.

Are Warren and JJ good rebounders ? Not so much.

[cberry78]

Here's an article from 2015, with the top draft classes of "all time".

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/hca/06/15/the-list-top-five-draft-classes/

Assuming that the 2018 Draft was close to as good as any of those, how many of you whiners are going to b**** and moan about having the 2nd or 3rd best players from the top 5 picks of any of those drafts?

The 09’ draft will go down top-5 all time...

Griffin
Harden
Curry
Holiday
Derozan

Spoiler:

Terrence Williams

Edit: Just saw that article is old

And don't forget former Suns great Wayne Ellington.

But seriously, you're absolutely right, '09 will probably go down as a top 5, and '18 has the chance to do the same (both will be at least top 10). How butt hurt would you be to end up with the second best player from the '09 draft?

[WeekapaugGroove]

Im just finding it really hard to come around on Ayton. I get it, he has a lot of potential. But to me, and to a lot of people, he doesn't seem to really have many, if any, skills that are relevant to the NBA beyond being able to sometimes stay in front of guards 1 on 1 on the perimeter. That means to achieve that potential there is so much work to be done.

He's really skilled but he's also missing some key skills that allows him to chain those offensive weapons he has together. Not being able to put the ball on the court really hurts his offense and not consistently creating space on offense to receive the ball makes it harder for him to get the ball.

He has a lot of work to do which is I think both a surprise to some but also expected by others. There were a lot here that was sure that he'd come in on Day One and be unstoppable because he's bigger, more skilled and more athletic than 95% of his competition in the NBA. Then there were others who were a lot more conservative in their projections of his skill set going into the NBA season. I think those who were a lot more conservative in their projections of him (as I was) and ranked him accordingly among other draft prospects is pretty much seeing what they had expected so I think a lot of us are not really pulling their hairs out about where Ayton is currently. There are also those who were really high on him that still are really high on him who are still confident he'll eventually turn into an all-NBA player.

There are of course the camp (made up of two groups) which consists of those who hated Ayton pre-draft and nothing he's done has changed their mind and also those who loved Ayton pre-draft and his play this season has turned them against him.

Not sure which camp you fall into but regardless, Ayton has A LOT of work to do and I think most can agree he's probably not quite as far along as most had hoped. It's just whether you're optimistic about his development or not going forward. Personally, I'm staying conservative but I don't really have a choice but to root for the guy because if he doesn't turn into an all-NBA level player while Luka is already a near all-star level guy as a 19yo, then we really **** up

Good post. I think the people who watched him the most at UofA are the least surprised by him right now because I would say his strengths and weaknesses are pretty much what they said they would be. I personally find college basketball pretty boring so don't watch a ton but I since i don't I try to pay attention to the opinions of those who do. I take the glass half full approach with him and I'm encouraged by his hands, shooting touch, and the fact that he's rebounding well while still not fundamentally sound on that area which tells me he has good natural rebounding chops and can improve with this some added focus on boxing out. Even the D which was always the most concerning thing to me I have hope because he has the physical tools and has seemed to started to process information better as the season has went on.

You mention the portion of fans who have turned on him, might be that some had too high of exceptions given the faults in his game that were there to see if you looked hard enough. But I kind of suspect it's actually more that some of them really went all in pre-draft for him and against the Doncic crowd and it's more Doncic being good that makes them mad that they might be wrong. If Doncic wasn't in this rookie class I feel like the general feeling around Ayton would be different.