2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2)

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Who do you think are the best two rookies?

Ayton
147
18%
Bagley
12
1%
Bamba
6
1%
Carter
15
2%
Doncic
424
51%
Gilgeous-Alexander
18
2%
Jackson
159
19%
Knox
18
2%
Sexton
6
1%
Young
20
2%
 
Total votes: 825

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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1241 » by gh123 » Thu Jan 3, 2019 1:19 pm

VCfor3 wrote:Jaren started a little slow but ended up with a decent game last night. 8/11 (2/2 from 3pt), 26pts, 10reb, 2 ast. He fouled out but that is because he had a few intentional fouls at the end of the game. Mike Conley didn't score the entire game and Gasol didn't score in the 2nd half. You would have liked to have had JJJ fed more on offense with the others struggling but it's still good to see him have a decent night again.


That's more than decent, that's great for a rookie, not matter what pick.
Btw where are rotm awards? I wonder who they give it too in East, Sexton and Knox are my choices. I watched like 1 Knicks game, so I can't really judge here.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1242 » by Lucas Mileib » Thu Jan 3, 2019 1:44 pm

Ayton is trash on D

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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1243 » by VCfor3 » Thu Jan 3, 2019 2:23 pm

gh123 wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:Jaren started a little slow but ended up with a decent game last night. 8/11 (2/2 from 3pt), 26pts, 10reb, 2 ast. He fouled out but that is because he had a few intentional fouls at the end of the game. Mike Conley didn't score the entire game and Gasol didn't score in the 2nd half. You would have liked to have had JJJ fed more on offense with the others struggling but it's still good to see him have a decent night again.


That's more than decent, that's great for a rookie, not matter what pick.
Btw where are rotm awards? I wonder who they give it too in East, Sexton and Knox are my choices. I watched like 1 Knicks game, so I can't really judge here.


JJJ had a few defensive rotations that he was lost on/slow to make which is expected as a rookie. His defense was still okay for a rookie and he kept his fouls in check, but I've been spoiled by him and hold him to a higher standard so I said decent haha. Offensively he was very good. Two of JJJ's misses were early in the game with him making a good move, getting to the basket, and then just not finishing.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1244 » by GoodBehavior » Thu Jan 3, 2019 2:42 pm

This is a very talented group of rookies, but they're are some serious question marks about their individual defense that could restrict their upside. Some will get better (a la Fox), and some will remain defense liabilities.

Biggest Concerns:
Trae Young - undersize defender, last in DPRM for PG
Colin Sexton - might be a good defender some day, but second to last DPRM for PG
Marvin Bagley - very active but poor defensive awareness, dead last in DPRM for PF
Mo Bamba - can't add mass, looks to have lost some weight since Combine (~Thon Maker/Skal). Dead last in DPRM for C

Question Marks:
Luka Doncic - coach hides his deficiency well in defensive schemes but he looks like a defensive liability ex. allowing Gallo (not known for foot speed) for a critical basket. Remains the biggest defensive unknown due to sample size, he doesn't get tested much. Does he have the athletic ability to keep up with forwards? Will be intriguing to see what he does during the off season (lose weight?), but the eye test so far indicates a Booker-esque liability

Jaren Jackson Jr - Undeniable DPOY potential, but can he anchor a defense w/o Gasol/Conley? Not a great rebounder despite his size at the 4, and isn't particular strong (serious reservation he can play the 5 like Draymond). Can he be the elite defensive presence w/o fouling? Good defender but if he can't rebound and get stronger to battle with bigger front court, I don't see the DPOY awards coming his way.

Wendell Carter Jr - stud defender but undersized as a C. Extremely likeable player, but he's almost unplayable against bigger front court. Can he coexist with Lauri? Both look small.

ayton - started out poorly as a defender but has since picked it up. Has all the athletic abilities but the game speed is still too fast for him. Will the game slow down for him?
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1245 » by Bob8 » Thu Jan 3, 2019 2:49 pm

GoodBehavior wrote:This is a very talented group of rookies, but they're are some serious question marks about their individual defense that could restrict their upside. Some will get better (a la Fox), and some will remain defense liabilities.

Biggest Concerns:
Trae Young - undersize defender, last in DPRM for PG
Colin Sexton - might be a good defender some day, but second to last DPRM for PG
Marvin Bagley - very active but poor defensive awareness, dead last in DPRM for PF
Mo Bamba - can't add mass, looks to have lost some weight since Combine (~Thon Maker/Skal). Dead last in DPRM for C

Question Marks:
Luka Doncic - coach hides his deficiency well in defensive schemes but he looks like a defensive liability ex. allowing Gallo (not known for foot speed) for a critical basket. Remains the biggest defensive unknown due to sample size, he doesn't get tested much. Does he have the athletic ability to keep up with forwards? Will be intriguing to see what he does during the off season (lose weight?), but the eye test so far indicates a Booker-esque liability

Jaren Jackson Jr - Undeniable DPOY potential, but can he anchor a defense w/o Gasol/Conley? Not a great rebounder despite his size at the 4, and isn't particular strong (serious reservation he can play the 5 like Draymond). Can he be the elite defensive presence w/o fouling? Good defender but if he can't rebound and get stronger to battle with bigger front court, I don't see the DPOY awards coming his way.

Wendell Carter Jr - stud defender but undersized as a C. Extremely likeable player, but he's almost unplayable against bigger front court. Can he coexist with Lauri? Both look small.

ayton - started out poorly as a defender but has since picked it up. Has all the athletic abilities but the game speed is still too fast for him. Will the game slow down for him?


It will always be easier to hide 6’8”, 230 player than Booker. So I don’t understand comparison. And DRPM says exactly that. Luka won’t never be great defender, but honestly he doesn’t need to be one, if the team will be build around him. He’s strong, big and smart enough to play solid team defense.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1246 » by The-Power » Thu Jan 3, 2019 3:00 pm

GoodBehavior wrote:Jaren Jackson Jr - Undeniable DPOY potential, but can he anchor a defense w/o Gasol/Conley? Not a great rebounder despite his size at the 4, and isn't particular strong (serious reservation he can play the 5 like Draymond). Can he be the elite defensive presence w/o fouling? Good defender but if he can't rebound and get stronger to battle with bigger front court, I don't see the DPOY awards coming his way.

Jaren Jackson Jr. is very strong for a player of his age, and he'll be one of the stronger players in the NBA with his body. I see strength as a plus attribute for him – definitely not a question mark at all. And combined with his length and rim protection, he'll be more than fine playing the 5. Much more natural 5 than Draymond and probably his best position in a couple years.

You won't see many players of his age being this good on defense. He's already a clear plus defender already, and that's as a one-and-done Rookie (one of the youngest players in the league). If there's one young player without question marks as to being a very good defender, it's JJJ imo. He's definitely not flawless and working on his weaknesses will determine his ceiling – but if he's a question mark then literally any teenager ever is.

At the moment, he has to work on rebounding, not fouling and defending the perimeter effectively against lead guards. Fouling is a serious issue for him but it's an issue for most young defensive bigs in the league – he'll definitely improve in this regard, as basically all bigs do. And if only by virtue of experience, picking his contests more wisely and getting the benefit of the doubt more often. We'll see how his individual rebounding develops. But even there, as long as he learns how to box out properly he should be fine in the modern NBA. We'll see how good he can defend out on perimeter against top-guards, but he has the foundation and it's not going to be the difference between being good and not good either.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1247 » by gh123 » Thu Jan 3, 2019 3:01 pm

Luka will be a plus defender I have 0 doubts about that. He's got size, strength and smarts. He's already good in the paint, most of the wings that go against him can't bully him to the rim for a lay up. He'll get athletic\fast enough to not get beat by PG\SG easily, so he'll be fine. Every team needs some defensive specialists, since there are like always at least 2 defensive liabilities in your starting line up + only a few offensive juggernauts are actually good defenders.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1248 » by King Ken » Thu Jan 3, 2019 5:07 pm

While Trae defense was terrible last night, before that, the last 8 games, Trae played excellent defense for his standards and solid D in general. Last night looked like most of the season. Struggling with screens, off ball movement, bad switching, not defending in space, just getting bullied around.

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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1249 » by Bob8 » Thu Jan 3, 2019 7:36 pm

Luka has 680.000 votes and is second, behind LeBron, in the west front court. :D
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1250 » by sunsbg » Thu Jan 3, 2019 7:45 pm

Bob8 wrote:Luka has 680.000 votes and is second, behind LeBron, in the west front court. :D


How many of those votes are yours ? I'm sure you hacked the voting in some way :lol: :lol: Just kidding :wink:
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1251 » by King Ken » Thu Jan 3, 2019 7:56 pm

sunsbg wrote:
Bob8 wrote:Luka has 680.000 votes and is second, behind LeBron, in the west front court. :D


How many of those votes are yours ? I'm sure you hacked the voting in some way Just kidding :wink:
67,999

NBA.com banned him

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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1252 » by koyotee » Thu Jan 3, 2019 8:18 pm

King Ken wrote:
sunsbg wrote:
Bob8 wrote:Luka has 680.000 votes and is second, behind LeBron, in the west front court. :D


How many of those votes are yours ? I'm sure you hacked the voting in some way Just kidding :wink:
67,999

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I feel sorry for your Trae not making it to the ASG.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1253 » by Dirk » Thu Jan 3, 2019 8:26 pm

koyotee wrote:
TheBonzaiEffect wrote:Another bad game from Trae. 5 points on 2-8 shooting. 9 assists, 4 TOVs.

Good games from Luka & JJJ. Ayton was good offensively, but wrecked by Embiid on D.


But but he shot 50% from 3 :P


koyotee wrote:
King Ken wrote:
sunsbg wrote:
How many of those votes are yours ? I'm sure you hacked the voting in some way Just kidding :wink:
67,999

NBA.com banned him

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I feel sorry for your Trae not making it to the ASG.


These posts are not okay. Not on the RealGM GB and certainly not in the spirit of this topic.

Posts such as these should be reported so that those who have the uncontrollable need to taunt and bait are eventually escorted out.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1254 » by Pachinko_ » Thu Jan 3, 2019 9:07 pm

I told you Doncic would get a bazillion votes and someone said nah Slovenia is a small country :D

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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1255 » by LukaV » Thu Jan 3, 2019 9:10 pm

Dončić and Knox are rookie of the month for December.

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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1256 » by NapoleonII » Thu Jan 3, 2019 9:11 pm

Ayton gonna need to average 28/15/4/3/3 and never have a bad defensive play again to get any respect.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1257 » by Bob8 » Thu Jan 3, 2019 9:19 pm

NapoleonII wrote:Ayton gonna need to average 28/15/4/3/3 and never have a bad defensive play again to get any respect.


Luka’s numbers in December, 21.1/6.4./6.1
Ayton’s numbers in December, 17.6/11.8/1.8

Dallas has won 7 games, Suns 5 games.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1258 » by TheBonzaiEffect » Thu Jan 3, 2019 9:25 pm

GoodBehavior wrote:This is a very talented group of rookies, but they're are some serious question marks about their individual defense that could restrict their upside. Some will get better (a la Fox), and some will remain defense liabilities.

Biggest Concerns:
Trae Young - undersize defender, last in DPRM for PG
Colin Sexton - might be a good defender some day, but second to last DPRM for PG
Marvin Bagley - very active but poor defensive awareness, dead last in DPRM for PF
Mo Bamba - can't add mass, looks to have lost some weight since Combine (~Thon Maker/Skal). Dead last in DPRM for C

Question Marks:
Luka Doncic - coach hides his deficiency well in defensive schemes but he looks like a defensive liability ex. allowing Gallo (not known for foot speed) for a critical basket. Remains the biggest defensive unknown due to sample size, he doesn't get tested much. Does he have the athletic ability to keep up with forwards? Will be intriguing to see what he does during the off season (lose weight?), but the eye test so far indicates a Booker-esque liability

Jaren Jackson Jr - Undeniable DPOY potential, but can he anchor a defense w/o Gasol/Conley? Not a great rebounder despite his size at the 4, and isn't particular strong (serious reservation he can play the 5 like Draymond). Can he be the elite defensive presence w/o fouling? Good defender but if he can't rebound and get stronger to battle with bigger front court, I don't see the DPOY awards coming his way.

Wendell Carter Jr - stud defender but undersized as a C. Extremely likeable player, but he's almost unplayable against bigger front court. Can he coexist with Lauri? Both look small.

ayton - started out poorly as a defender but has since picked it up. Has all the athletic abilities but the game speed is still too fast for him. Will the game slow down for him?


Stop trolling. Luka is already better on D than Booker has ever been.

Luka: 109 DRtg, 1.3 DWS, .5 DBPM

Booker: 116 DRtg, .3 DWS, -2.8 DBPM (never been above -2.4).

How can you compare a rookie who is right now a positive impact defender to a turnstile combo guard? Really?
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1259 » by BlueSan » Thu Jan 3, 2019 9:32 pm

As far as Ayton and him not being spotted by the people or any respect given...

1. Guy has been picked 1st in the draft - respect given
2. The guy has been acknowledged in this thread and around NBA as a good basketball player - respect given

Now for the harsh reality.

1. So far the people on this forum, the media, the NBA players and the fans (all star voting and alike) are acknowledging Luka as the better out of the two SO FAR! mind you
2. In Basketball a Guy who is a good scorer and assist guy will always have an edge/advantage over A center

Ayton is great, he isnt good, he is GREAT as a rookie. He just has a tough luck competing with this bunch of guys which are really good. But it is not like last year it would have been different.
Tatum, Simmons, Mithell all of them would have finished in the the ROY race ahead of Ayton

1. Because all of their teams played POs
2. Because all of them were more exposed and involved in more clutch/media exposed situations than Ayton
3. This is a league operated by Wings, guards and lastly centers who can shoot 3

Ayton needs to start shooting and hitting the 3 to open the perimeter, Ayton as a Center needs to play a lot better defense and yeah as funny as it sounds even in points per game he needs to step it up a notch to compete with Doncic.
Plus he needs to make a New years wish that Dallas will play poor basketball and finish with a bad record, that Doncic will drop his A game and that he will for the love of god stop hitting buzzer beater 3s, going on 11:0 runs and in general preforming like a generational talent.

Then you will see Ayton talked first and than the rest and that is only if some other dude with some other team doesnt pick the ball where Doncic dropped it.

Fair enough and direct enough?
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1260 » by GoodBehavior » Thu Jan 3, 2019 9:41 pm

TheBonzaiEffect wrote:
GoodBehavior wrote:This is a very talented group of rookies, but they're are some serious question marks about their individual defense that could restrict their upside. Some will get better (a la Fox), and some will remain defense liabilities.

Biggest Concerns:
Trae Young - undersize defender, last in DPRM for PG
Colin Sexton - might be a good defender some day, but second to last DPRM for PG
Marvin Bagley - very active but poor defensive awareness, dead last in DPRM for PF
Mo Bamba - can't add mass, looks to have lost some weight since Combine (~Thon Maker/Skal). Dead last in DPRM for C

Question Marks:
Luka Doncic - coach hides his deficiency well in defensive schemes but he looks like a defensive liability ex. allowing Gallo (not known for foot speed) for a critical basket. Remains the biggest defensive unknown due to sample size, he doesn't get tested much. Does he have the athletic ability to keep up with forwards? Will be intriguing to see what he does during the off season (lose weight?), but the eye test so far indicates a Booker-esque liability

Jaren Jackson Jr - Undeniable DPOY potential, but can he anchor a defense w/o Gasol/Conley? Not a great rebounder despite his size at the 4, and isn't particular strong (serious reservation he can play the 5 like Draymond). Can he be the elite defensive presence w/o fouling? Good defender but if he can't rebound and get stronger to battle with bigger front court, I don't see the DPOY awards coming his way.

Wendell Carter Jr - stud defender but undersized as a C. Extremely likeable player, but he's almost unplayable against bigger front court. Can he coexist with Lauri? Both look small.

ayton - started out poorly as a defender but has since picked it up. Has all the athletic abilities but the game speed is still too fast for him. Will the game slow down for him?


Stop trolling. Luka is already better on D than Booker has ever been.

Luka: 109 DRtg, 1.3 DWS, .5 DBPM

Booker: 116 DRtg, .3 DWS, -2.8 DBPM (never been above -2.4).

How can you compare a rookie who is right now a positive impact defender to a turnstile combo guard? Really?


Maybe because Rick Carlislie hides him in his defensive scheme? When tasked with guarding decent players, he looks bad. I saw him try to guard TJ Warren for one sequence, and Rick decide not have him guard TJ the rest of the night. So yeah, there's some question marks.

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