Tank World Order V (Rise of the Phoenix)

[YogurtProducer]

Remember when it was an unthinkable disaster that we didn't end up with Scoot?

I don't remember anyone clamouring for Scoot.

You hang out in the TWO thread everyday and don't remember anyone clamoring for Scoot?

"We need to trade Siakam for AJ Griffin before it's too late!" - PhilBlackson

Yeah that is crazy talk. There was constant discussion of how even if we miss on Wemby that getting any of Miller, Scoot, or the Thompson bros is a worth consolation prize.

[DreamTeam09]

Some people focus more game-by-game, others have more of a bigger picture, neither are wrong - just different. No one should "laugh" at anyone or be derogatory on the person with whom you disagree on perspective.

Lol best put them on ignore if their views don't align. Everyone comes on to do their own thing anyway and none of it is constructive. I come to dump off negativity and displeasure about the direction of the team because I act like the most positive guy in real life. Duff come to feel like a real big man with his mod powers because he probably wishes he can beat his child.

Some are more sick inside than the other but we all have our reasons.

I'm the most positive in real life but this mod wants to beat his child... yup.

Seek help my man lol, like seriously, from a professional, it'll do you some good. Enjoy the rest of the year man

[YogurtProducer]

Some need that dopamine fix of a win to keep the play in possibility alive. They have no patience for placing the team in a better position to secure a high draft pick. What for right? It's all luck anyways. Better to win now!

Some like to watch the team cheer for win because at the core of sports, that's the entire point.

And I laugh at your 'patience' comment when you're the first one to jump on Dick, Ochai etc when they underperform in a small sample size.

Go cheer for wins capped at 45 forever. Congratulations on play-ins year in and year out.

Give it a break harping about cheering for losses - we cheering for losses are cheering for 60 wins seasons in the future. Don't pretend you don't understand.

I mean a big part of the problem here is that you (and others) think the only way to break 45 wins is by tanking - despite there being ample evidence that tanking does not guarantee success nor is there any evidence it is any superior to team building.

Tanking is surely one way to build. Results can be argued. But everyone can acknowledge that there is a basis of logic to the process.

However, there are other ways to build to - yet the holier than thou TWO people cant seem to acknowledge that these routes exist. You drive other posters nuts because you have a superiority complex and you try to talk down on anyone who disagrees with you. Hell, even this post I am quoting needs to throw in a "if you don't want to tank you're happy with 45 wins!". No. No one has ever said that except you TWO people who need to create an argument that doesn't exist to feel better about yourself.

[DelAbbot]

Some like to watch the team cheer for win because at the core of sports, that's the entire point.

And I laugh at your 'patience' comment when you're the first one to jump on Dick, Ochai etc when they underperform in a small sample size.

Go cheer for wins capped at 45 forever. Congratulations on play-ins year in and year out.

Give it a break harping about cheering for losses - we cheering for losses are cheering for 60 wins seasons in the future. Don't pretend you don't understand.

I mean a big part of the problem here is that you (and others) think the only way to break 45 wins is by tanking - despite there being ample evidence that tanking does not guarantee success nor is there any evidence it is any superior to team building.

Tanking is surely one way to build. Results can be argued. But everyone can acknowledge that there is a basis of logic to the process.

However, there are other ways to build to - yet the holier than thou TWO people cant seem to acknowledge that these routes exist. You drive other posters nuts because you have a superiority complex and you try to talk down on anyone who disagrees with you. Hell, even this post I am quoting needs to throw in a "if you don't want to tank you're happy with 45 wins!". No. No one has ever said that except you TWO people who need to create an argument that doesn't exist to feel better about yourself.

Yes, for our market (cannot attract top end FA) the only way to field a championship contender roster is through several losing seasons (losing naturally like we did over 2011-2014, or losing on purpose) and receiving high draft picks to high end talent.

[Phezmo123]

Go cheer for wins capped at 45 forever. Congratulations on play-ins year in and year out.

Give it a break harping about cheering for losses - we cheering for losses are cheering for 60 wins seasons in the future. Don't pretend you don't understand.

I mean a big part of the problem here is that you (and others) think the only way to break 45 wins is by tanking - despite there being ample evidence that tanking does not guarantee success nor is there any evidence it is any superior to team building.

Tanking is surely one way to build. Results can be argued. But everyone can acknowledge that there is a basis of logic to the process.

However, there are other ways to build to - yet the holier than thou TWO people cant seem to acknowledge that these routes exist. You drive other posters nuts because you have a superiority complex and you try to talk down on anyone who disagrees with you. Hell, even this post I am quoting needs to throw in a "if you don't want to tank you're happy with 45 wins!". No. No one has ever said that except you TWO people who need to create an argument that doesn't exist to feel better about yourself.

Yes, for our market (cannot attract top end FA) the only way to field a championship contender roster is through several losing seasons (losing naturally like we did over 2011-2014, or losing on purpose) and receiving high draft picks to high end talent.

our last chip wasn't built through tanking tbh

if we're comparing to 2011-2014, then our young core is already better than that young core was and we've already done the "dirty work"

[Duffman100]

I mean a big part of the problem here is that you (and others) think the only way to break 45 wins is by tanking - despite there being ample evidence that tanking does not guarantee success nor is there any evidence it is any superior to team building.

Tanking is surely one way to build. Results can be argued. But everyone can acknowledge that there is a basis of logic to the process.

However, there are other ways to build to - yet the holier than thou TWO people cant seem to acknowledge that these routes exist. You drive other posters nuts because you have a superiority complex and you try to talk down on anyone who disagrees with you. Hell, even this post I am quoting needs to throw in a "if you don't want to tank you're happy with 45 wins!". No. No one has ever said that except you TWO people who need to create an argument that doesn't exist to feel better about yourself.

Yes, for our market (cannot attract top end FA) the only way to field a championship contender roster is through several losing seasons (losing naturally like we did over 2011-2014, or losing on purpose) and receiving high draft picks to high end talent.

our last chip wasn't built through tanking tbh

if we're comparing to 2011-2014, then our young core is already better than that young core was and we've already done the "dirty work"

2011 - JV at 5
2012 - Ross at 8
2014 - Bruno at 20

What are you even talking about? lol

By that logic, we got Barnes at 4, Dick at 13 and we'll likely get a top 10 pick this year. So we're ahead?

[Phezmo123]

Yes, for our market (cannot attract top end FA) the only way to field a championship contender roster is through several losing seasons (losing naturally like we did over 2011-2014, or losing on purpose) and receiving high draft picks to high end talent.

our last chip wasn't built through tanking tbh

if we're comparing to 2011-2014, then our young core is already better than that young core was and we've already done the "dirty work"

2011 - JV at 5
2012 - Ross at 8
2014 - Bruno at 20

What are you even talking about? lol

By that logic, we got Barnes at 4, Dick at 13 and we'll likely get a top 10 pick this year. So we're ahead?

exactly - we're on the same page.

[canz55]

Trade the pick.

you said the same during Tampa season

I did? I don't remember that. That Tampa team was healthy and playing like ****.

[Duffman100]

our last chip wasn't built through tanking tbh

if we're comparing to 2011-2014, then our young core is already better than that young core was and we've already done the "dirty work"

2011 - JV at 5
2012 - Ross at 8
2014 - Bruno at 20

What are you even talking about? lol

By that logic, we got Barnes at 4, Dick at 13 and we'll likely get a top 10 pick this year. So we're ahead?

exactly - we're on the same page.

Yeah sorry my comment was directed at Del and agreeing with you.

[Lazy]

Some people focus more game-by-game, others have more of a bigger picture, neither are wrong - just different. No one should "laugh" at anyone or be derogatory on the person with whom you disagree on perspective.

Lol best put them on ignore if their views don't align. Everyone comes on to do their own thing anyway and none of it is constructive. I come to dump off negativity and displeasure about the direction of the team because I act like the most positive guy in real life. Duff come to feel like a real big man with his mod powers because he probably wishes he can beat his child.

Some are more sick inside than the other but we all have our reasons.

I'm the most positive in real life but this mod wants to beat his child... yup.

It’s never that serious

[ItsDanger]

Back to back wins and the tanking safe space is under attack. Stay true to your words Masai.

[YogurtProducer]

Go cheer for wins capped at 45 forever. Congratulations on play-ins year in and year out.

Give it a break harping about cheering for losses - we cheering for losses are cheering for 60 wins seasons in the future. Don't pretend you don't understand.

I mean a big part of the problem here is that you (and others) think the only way to break 45 wins is by tanking - despite there being ample evidence that tanking does not guarantee success nor is there any evidence it is any superior to team building.

Tanking is surely one way to build. Results can be argued. But everyone can acknowledge that there is a basis of logic to the process.

However, there are other ways to build to - yet the holier than thou TWO people cant seem to acknowledge that these routes exist. You drive other posters nuts because you have a superiority complex and you try to talk down on anyone who disagrees with you. Hell, even this post I am quoting needs to throw in a "if you don't want to tank you're happy with 45 wins!". No. No one has ever said that except you TWO people who need to create an argument that doesn't exist to feel better about yourself.

Yes, for our market (cannot attract top end FA) the only way to field a championship contender roster is through several losing seasons (losing naturally like we did over 2011-2014, or losing on purpose) and receiving high draft picks to high end talent.

Funny - how did we manage to field a championship roster before without tanking?

2013-14, the start of our playoff run, we had a core of

Lowry
Demar
Ross
Amir
JV

Like that was it. Everyone else was fairly inconsequential and irrelevant to our long term plans.

Now, we have a core of:

Barnes
IQ
RJ
Dick
Poeltl

Do you really look at that 2023/24 core and think "wow - that is 100% the start of championship team!". Hell no.

[Vampirate]

Trade the pick.

you said the same during Tampa season

I did? I don't remember that. That Tampa team was healthy and playing like ****.

We're not trading the pick, get over it.

We're playing most of our bench 12-15+ minutes a night.

This team is going to win/lose based on what it's been doing since the start of the season.

The FVV/Nurse days are over.

[Coco Costanza]

I don't remember anyone clamouring for Scoot.

You hang out in the TWO thread everyday and don't remember anyone clamoring for Scoot?

"We need to trade Siakam for AJ Griffin before it's too late!" - PhilBlackson

Yeah that is crazy talk. There was constant discussion of how even if we miss on Wemby that getting any of Miller, Scoot, or the Thompson bros is a worth consolation prize.

There's a difference between wanting someone in the draft and it being a "disaster" if we don't get them, which I don't think anyone suggested at the time.

[YogurtProducer]

Just saying this team to me has so many parallels to 2013/14 it is not even funny.

Team starts off horribly (2013 - 6-12, 2024 - 4-12)
Big mix up happens (2013 - trade, 2024 - barnes/iq/brown/olynyk get healthy)
East is horrible (2013 - we got HCA at 48-34, 2024 - 4th in east is currently 10-7, 5th is below .500)

We are gonna go on a run here IMO especially if we get healthy.

- We have had an insanely hard schedule (11/16 games against teams above .500 and only 1 game against a team below .400)
- 3rd most games lost to injury (and like... big losses. We are without 2 of our top 3, and 4 of our top 7/8 every night)
- Despite that, we are in most games.

Schedule softens up and we get healthy? There is zero chance we stay bottom 5. ****, we are barely bottom 5 now with about worst case scenario going on now.

[YogurtProducer]

You hang out in the TWO thread everyday and don't remember anyone clamoring for Scoot?

"We need to trade Siakam for AJ Griffin before it's too late!" - PhilBlackson

Yeah that is crazy talk. There was constant discussion of how even if we miss on Wemby that getting any of Miller, Scoot, or the Thompson bros is a worth consolation prize.

There's a difference between wanting someone in the draft and it being a "disaster" if we don't get them, which I don't think anyone suggested at the time.

This entire thread is talking about how if we dont pick top 5 it is a disaster lol

[CoinTossRoss31]

Trade the pick.

Honestly if I was getting a prospect closer to Scotties age in return Id debate it.

Jalen Williams, Wagner, Sengun Talking that level of prospect

[Jcity08]

In the last 4 drafts, we were in the lottery 3 out of the 4 times, including this past draft where we conveyed our pick to the Spurs. And we're looking like we're going back into the lottery again this year, barring any major changes.

Maybe in a season or two, TWO will die down but for now we ain't going anywhere.

[DelAbbot]

Trade the pick.

Honestly if I was getting a prospect closer to Scotties age in return Id debate it.

Jalen Williams, Wagner, Sengun Talking that level of prospect

Yes trade the 2025 FRP for Jalen Williams.

Heck trade any two of Scottie/RJ/IQ for Jalen Williams

maybe trade FRP for Wagner

definitely not trade FRP for Sengun - who will be exposed in the playoffs even worse than Sabonis

[Potential]

There will definitely be injuries again once we think we're finally healthy. Bobsai wants to tank not go on a playoff run where we'll eventually lose to a fraud team like Cleveland and then have a bad pick. Then once Bobsai is ready to win I can promise we'll go a lot farther than the Calves