2014 Draft Prospects Thread

Post #1281 » by **Worm Guts** » Wed Jun 4, 2014 2:25 pm

Thomas Robinson is the same height as Randle with a longer wingspan and slightly higher standing reach. Randle weighed 6 more pounds than Robinson, but with 4.5% more body fat. I don't think the size comparisons are out of line.

mandurugo · Post #1282 » by **mandurugo** » Wed Jun 4, 2014 2:29 pm

Here's a link from a GB thread, it was posted in a blog last year:

http://ascreamingcomesacrossthecourt.bl ... r-nba.html

I'm not a fan of most information gained from the combine, but I do believe wingspan and standing reach are two useful data points it gives. At any rate, the blog post give average measurements for player positions in the NBA (though for some reason they don't do weight, which seems like another potentially useful number). Might be useful for your discussions...

Antrim · Post #1283 » by **Antrim** » Wed Jun 4, 2014 2:32 pm

The problem with the size comparisons is that you're comparing a junior with a freshman. Robinson was about 30 pounds lighter than Randle at the same age.

shangrila · Post #1284 » by **shangrila** » Wed Jun 4, 2014 3:08 pm

Hell, why not go all out with that Chicago offer. After flipping Mirotic and 13 to the Lakers turn around and trade Gibson to the Kings for 8. Then draft Smart and (hope and pray) Randle.

Rubio
Smart
Butler
Randle
Dieng

With Bazz and Pek off the bench for some offence

criteriado · Post #1285 » by **criteriado** » Wed Jun 4, 2014 3:16 pm

If that trade with Boston goes through...What are your thoughts of taking Kyle Anderson at 17? I just love him way too much. The analytical models love him, and I think he will pan out on the league.

Krapinsky · Post #1286 » by **Krapinsky** » Wed Jun 4, 2014 3:36 pm

Worm Guts wrote:Thomas Robinson is the same height as Randle with a longer wingspan and slightly higher standing reach. Randle weighed 6 more pounds than Robinson, but with 4.5% more body fat. I don't think the size comparisons are out of line.

But isn't he about the same size as Kevin Love too? I'm not sure what you can gleam from just the measurements.

Antrim · Post #1287 » by **Antrim** » Wed Jun 4, 2014 3:49 pm

Krapinsky wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:Thomas Robinson is the same height as Randle with a longer wingspan and slightly higher standing reach. Randle weighed 6 more pounds than Robinson, but with 4.5% more body fat. I don't think the size comparisons are out of line.

But isn't he about the same size as Kevin Love too? I'm not sure what you can gleam from just the measurements.

Randle is exactly as tall as Kevin Love. Love has a .5 inch advantage in standing reach and actually weighed more than Randle. However, he was overweight when drafted and now is slimmer. Randle SHOULD gain weight in the future.

Anyway, it's hard to compare both. Love is a perimeter player and one of the best shooters in the NBA. Randle is a bully, a beast. I think the best comparisons for Randle would be Griffin/Randolph.

Krapinsky · Post #1288 » by **Krapinsky** » Wed Jun 4, 2014 4:12 pm

criteriado wrote:If that trade with Boston goes through...What are your thoughts of taking Kyle Anderson at 17? I just love him way too much. The analytical models love him, and I think he will pan out on the league.

I don't like him on a team with a traditional point guard (Rubio) and without a rim protector in the starting lineup. I think if he's going to be successful he has to fine a role like Hedo had with the Magic, where he can play point forward and he has a shot blocker behind him.

Post #1289 » by **Worm Guts** » Wed Jun 4, 2014 4:15 pm

Krapinsky wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:Thomas Robinson is the same height as Randle with a longer wingspan and slightly higher standing reach. Randle weighed 6 more pounds than Robinson, but with 4.5% more body fat. I don't think the size comparisons are out of line.

But isn't he about the same size as Kevin Love too? I'm not sure what you can gleam from just the measurements.

I wasn't trying to say anything except his size doesn't really separate him from Thomas Robinson.

AQuintus · Post #1290 » by **AQuintus** » Wed Jun 4, 2014 6:46 pm

Antrim wrote:Randle is NOT undersized, give me a break. He's a 6'9" 250 freshman PF. If Julius Randle is undersized Karl Malone was too.

7'0" Wingspan and 8'9.5" standing reach. That IS undersized.

For comparison, Thomas Robinson - 6'7.75" in socks (same as Randle), 244 pounds, 7'3.25" wingspan, 8'10" standing reach.

This notion that he's a tweener or that he can only bully college players is wrong, in my opinion. The guy is an athletic freak. If you think he's built like Thomas Robinson I have to question if you've ever watched either guy play.

If you DON'T think he's built like Thomas Robinson, I have to question whether you have access to the internet. The numbers don't lie.

Edit:

Also, you're responding to a post of mine that was responding to a post comparing Aaron Gordon to Thomas Robinson. I wasn't saying that Robinson is a great comparison to Randle, much less that Randle will be Robinson. I was simply saying that Robinson is a closer comparison to Randle than he is to Gordon.

Edit 2:

Antrim wrote:Anyway, it's hard to compare both. Love is a perimeter player and one of the best shooters in the NBA. Randle is a bully, a beast. I think the best comparisons for Randle would be Griffin/Randolph.

Griffin and Randolph are pretty much on opposite ends of the athletic/explosiveness spectrum. You can't really be compared to both at the same time.

Randle is no where near as explosive to Griffen, so that comparison is immediately. Randolph is a decent comparison, but he's far more crafty and has a better jumpshot than Randle. Randle will have to develop a lot to reach Randolph's level. Also, Draftexpress doesn't have Randolph's wingspan measurements, but I've read it's around 7'4"-7'5". That's a huge advantage over Randle.

Krapinsky · Post #1291 » by **Krapinsky** » Wed Jun 4, 2014 6:54 pm

AQuintus wrote:
Antrim wrote:Randle is NOT undersized, give me a break. He's a 6'9" 250 freshman PF. If Julius Randle is undersized Karl Malone was too.

7'0" Wingspan and 8'9.5" standing reach. That IS undersized.

For comparison, Thomas Robinson - 6'7.75" in socks (same as Randle), 244 pounds, 7'3.25" wingspan, 8'10" standing reach.

I don't think he's undersized. He's pretty average sized.

Kevin Love: 6'11.5" wing, 8'10" reach
Blake Griffin: 6'11.5" wing, 8'9" reach

AQuintus · Post #1292 » by **AQuintus** » Wed Jun 4, 2014 7:00 pm

Krapinsky wrote:
I don't think he's undersized. He's pretty average sized.

Kevin Love: 6'11.5" wing, 8'10" reach
Blake Griffin: 6'11.5" wing, 8'9" reach

Both Love and Griffin are undersized, too.

Ideally, a PF would have around a 7'2"~ wingspan and a 9'0" standing reach.

Although, with guys like Love and Griffin having success and guys like Gordon and Randle entering the league at PF, 6'11"~ wingspans and 8'9"~ standing reaches might be becoming the new normal.

Edit:

Average combine measurements of guys drafted top 15 (from Draftexpress):

PG - 6' 1.98" (height w/o shoes), 6' 6.5" wingspan, 8' 2 standing reach
SG - 6' 4.09", 6' 8.6" wingspan, 8' 4.8" standing reach
SF - 6' 6.5", 7' 0.3" wingspan, 8' 8.8" standing reach
PF - 6' 8.24", 7' 1.7" wingspan, 8' 11.4" standing reach
C - 6' 10.34", 7' 4.1" wingspan, 9' 2.5" standing reach

Antrim · Post #1293 » by **Antrim** » Wed Jun 4, 2014 7:19 pm

AQuintus wrote:
Antrim wrote:Randle is NOT undersized, give me a break. He's a 6'9" 250 freshman PF. If Julius Randle is undersized Karl Malone was too.

7'0" Wingspan and 8'9.5" standing reach. That IS undersized.

For comparison, Thomas Robinson - 6'7.75" in socks (same as Randle), 244 pounds, 7'3.25" wingspan, 8'10" standing reach.

Robinson is not undersized length wise, he's just small.

8'9.5" standing reach is not necessarily undersized for a PF.

Blake Griffin - 8'9"
Carmelo Anthony - 8'9.5"
Kevin Love - 8'10"
Noah Vonleh - 8'10"

AQuintus wrote:
This notion that he's a tweener or that he can only bully college players is wrong, in my opinion. The guy is an athletic freak. If you think he's built like Thomas Robinson I have to question if you've ever watched either guy play.

If you DON'T think he's built like Thomas Robinson, I have to question whether you have access to the internet. The numbers don't lie.

I just told you he's about 30 lbs heavier than Thomas Robinson was at the same stage. Of course they're not built the same. You should look at meaningful numbers instead of skewed ones.

dunkonu21 · Post #1294 » by **dunkonu21** » Wed Jun 4, 2014 7:24 pm

I hear a lot of people worrying about a rebounding weakness. this seems like a waste of time to me, because even if we do trade KLove (gosh I hope not) we will be a good rebounding team with the core we already have. Rubio, Pek and Bazz are all above average rebounders for their positions. I am not worried about rebounding in our new players with the culture and talent we already have here. If we draft Gordon and his weakness is rebounding, then who cares, his strengths will easily make up for it and it won't bring out team down anyways.

Post #1295 » by **Worm Guts** » Wed Jun 4, 2014 7:24 pm

Does it matter that Robinson was 30 pounds lighter as a freshman? It's not like Randle is looking to gain another 30 pounds. I think 250-260 is pretty much the max either wants to weigh.

AQuintus · Post #1296 » by **AQuintus** » Wed Jun 4, 2014 7:25 pm

Antrim wrote:I just told you he's about 30 lbs heavier than Thomas Robinson was at the same stage. Of course they're not built the same. You should look at meaningful numbers instead of skewed ones.

1) Comparing them at the stage they enter the NBA and play against NBA players is the more meaningful comparison, imo.

2) Thomas Robinson didn't fail in the NBA at his Freshman weight. He failed at (about) the same weight that Randle is now.

3) Randle has been about the same height, weight, wingspan, and standing reach for about 3 years now. When he's the same age as Robinson, he'll likely still have these same measurements.

Also, since I think you missed my edit above, I'm not even saying Robinson is a great comparison for Randle, just a much better one than comparing Robinson to Gordon.

Edit:

Antrim wrote:Robinson is not undersized length wise, he's just small.

8'9.5" standing reach is not necessarily undersized for a PF.

Blake Griffin - 8'9"
Carmelo Anthony - 8'9.5"
Kevin Love - 8'10"
Noah Vonleh - 8'10"

Griffin - Undersized PF
Love - Undersized PF
Carmelo - SF (why even include him?)
Vonleh - undersized standing reach is a concern, but he's got a great wingspan.

Compared to the average PF drafted in the top 15, they're all undersized. However, like I said above, a lot of guys are coming into the league lately with those measurements (Vonleh, Randle, and Gordon all have similar standing reach), so it might just be the new normal.

Takingbaconback · Post #1297 » by **Takingbaconback** » Wed Jun 4, 2014 7:26 pm

I just don't see a lot of scenarios in which Randle can be a better PF than Zach Randolph, Paul Millsap, or guys of their caliber. Yeah he's pretty good at working inside and getting rebounds but he's not a good defensive player outside of banging inside and he's not a good shooter. I think he has one of the lowest ceilings within the first 15 picks of this draft.

When you talk about skillset and talent, I think there is no doubt Randle will be a much better basketball player than Thomas Robinson but I don't think he will be a guy who is going to have significant impact in the NBA.

Antrim · Post #1298 » by **Antrim** » Wed Jun 4, 2014 7:37 pm

Worm Guts wrote:Does it matter that Robinson was 30 pounds lighter as a freshman? It's not like Randle is looking to gain another 30 pounds. I think 250-260 is pretty much the max either wants to weigh.

Of course it matters.

There simply haven't been very many 6'9", 250 lbs freshman PF's that dominated college basketball in recent memory. Randle is a special specimen.

I think he could easily gain 10-20 more pounds. Physically he reminds me of LeBron, who's about 270.

AQuintus wrote:1) Comparing them at the stage they enter the NBA and play against NBA players is the more meaningful comparison, imo.

I highly disagree. If they entered the NBA at complete different stages of development, you'd be comparing apples to oranges.

AQuintus wrote:2) Thomas Robinson didn't fail in the NBA at his Freshman weight. He failed at (about) the same weight that Randle is now.

The problem is comparing a junior with a freshman. They're at two different stages of development.

AQuintus wrote:3) Randle has been about the same height, weight, wingspan, and standing reach for about 3 years now. When he's the same age as Robinson, he'll likely still have these same measurements.

He'll be way bigger, that's for sure.

AQuintus wrote:Also, since I think you missed my edit above, I'm not even saying Robinson is a great comparison for Randle, just a much better one than comparing Robinson to Gordon.

Oh, well I could agree with that.

Post #1299 » by **Worm Guts** » Wed Jun 4, 2014 7:41 pm

Antrim wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:Does it matter that Robinson was 30 pounds lighter as a freshman? It's not like Randle is looking to gain another 30 pounds. I think 250-260 is pretty much the max either wants to weigh.

Of course it matters.

There simply haven't been very many 6'9", 250 lbs freshman PF's that dominated college basketball in recent memory. Randle is a special specimen.

I think he could easily gain 10-20 more pounds. Physically he reminds me of LeBron, who's about 270.

Some people hit their physical peak early. As they get older, that physical advantage goes away and they're not as dominant. I'm not sure Randle would benefit from playing at 270-280 pounds, maybe I'm wrong.

Andri · Post #1300 » by **Andri** » Wed Jun 4, 2014 7:43 pm

Blake Griffin - 8'9" - Athletic freak with good handles
Carmelo Anthony - 8'9.5" - bulky sf, one of the most offensive skilled players over a decade
Kevin Love - 8'10" - offensive juggernaut with incredible range for a big and great feel fort the game

What does randle bring for making up the lack of lenght? (I don't know him well at all, just asking)