All Lin talk here

[MeloTime]

Lin is young and had talent , worse case for him is 15 and 8 and I would take that any day , if he stayed in NY. He wouldve been here for the next 10 years easily.

He can shoot
drive
penerate
pass
dribble
rebound
good hands on d

he was a little clumsy but that he can work on

[ORANGEandBLUE]

But that can be said about any young pg.

My point is that everyone on this thread is saying we made a mistake and have no shot at winning a title.

NO ACTUAL STATS hint at that. None.

So you're saying it wasn't even a mistake to let him go?

They show a guy who had a great 14 game run then came back down to earth. Got figured out and shot a horrible percentage against bad teams. Now is he that bad as some of those games I listen? I don't think so. I think he will improve but not go back to that 2 week run he had.

But still averaged an impressive 5 ft's per game in only 31 minutes.

Point is nothing hints at the fact that Felton can't put up the numbers Lin put up during March which to some of you was good enough last year.

Except Felton has never come close to 5 ft's a game.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

Let's not make things too complicated here. The argument is:

A) Lin is a better player than Felton considering the amount of money he will be paid this year.
B) Our team would be in a better position to win with a better player because better players tend to make teams better because they're better.

Fixed to clarify the argument.

Let's provide this for more information:

1) Felton's salary: 4 million
2) Lin's average salary: 8 million

As a fan why are you so concerned with how much we are paying him? Don't you want to just see the best team possible, regardless of the price? People act like being all financial-minded is going to get them into business school or something.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

He played well under woodson because he played for 7 games under woodson vs CRAP teams. I don't consider Indiana or Philly good teams which were the two best he played against.

He had a horrible game vs philly other than the last 10 fts he made after Philly starting playing the ft shooting game with 1 minute to go. An ok game vs indiana. And a very good game vs Indiana.

You don't think Felton can do that?

Uhh... no, Philly did not start playing the ft-shooting game. It was a one-possession game basically until the end. Remember how the commentators were so baffled at the end because Philly didn't play the ft-shooting game? Lin got those ft's because he broke down Philly's defense and got looks in the paint. It was not a "horrible" game at all; it was a dominant fourth quarter performance.

[knicksnyk]

How good or how bad.

Listen we dont know what his floor his yet neither. Lin's game is as unstable as a fusion reactor experiment.

I remember when Lin first stepped on the court for us. Man this dude would fall flat on his face time and time again. Clumsy as hell like a new born colt. Even after Linsanity Lin would just fall on his face if a good defender was on him.

Then Lin is schooling Kobe on national TV.

I think Lin benefitted alot from playing with players like Melo, Amare, and even Tyson. Sure he did great by himself but he was a novelty.

Its gonna be a different game now that he is a well known player and a face of a franchise. Now I dont hang that Miami game on Lin because that happens to the best of them. I wanted Lin to stay because he's solid point guard and he was ours. But with Felton here I really dont see the big differential. If you call me an idiot, I'l call you in love with someone you barely knew.

Felton is a solid point guard on a Bobcat team, he should be a good one with a talented team like this one.

And if people really feel that Lin is the nest Steve Nash then I hope Felton is our Jason Terry and...............

what was such a novelty about Lin. please explain this to me. was it because of all the hype? or the undrafted thing? or him being asian? what made him a novelty? ignore all the extra noise & focus on the on court product he played well he put the ball in the basket wtf is novel about that? Kyrie & rubio all had great seasons NOBODY calls what they did a novelty. Isiah thomas seriously outperformed his draft number NOBODY says anything about them. christ lin put up nice number too and yet he is the novelty i dont get it. if ricky rubio or kyrie had done in NY what Lin did they wouldn't be called a novelty at all. please somebody help me understand were there fairies and pixie dust flying over lins head when he was playing basektball. are we seruously crucifying someone because he played above and beyond expectations? is this what society has come to when an asian kid can be in the NBA & play well but if he plays too well oh hell No he is a novelty oh hell no he is overrated and all hype. wow i am not even asian and i am disgusted by all of this. like i wasnt even that mad about the knicks letting him go bcus i knew woody wouldn't wasnt sold on him so what is hte point of keeping him. i hated bringing back felton & i most of all hated knick fans response. and there is a big differential between Lin & felton. right now Lin is better. and next season lin will only get better & felton will stay exactly the same.

[Phish Tank]

Let's not make things too complicated here. The argument is:

A) Lin is a better player than Felton considering the amount of money he will be paid this year.
B) Our team would be in a better position to win with a better player because better players tend to make teams better because they're better.

Fixed to clarify the argument.

Let's provide this for more information:

1) Felton's salary: 4 million
2) Lin's average salary: 8 million

As a fan why are you so concerned with how much we are paying him? Don't you want to just see the best team possible, regardless of the price? People act like being all financial-minded is going to get them into business school or something.

genius, i did graduate from a business school btw. yes, i want to see the best team possible, but we have to be smart with our money. You know what it would mean if we actually matched Lin's offer sheet? Do you realize that Lin presented one offer sheet to the Knicks... agreed on it... then WENT BACK TO HOUSTON for more money.

Basically, he screwed over Dolan. If Dolan accepts, what message does that send out? We can't continue this path of getting royally screwed by overpaying for any sorts of talent. The team has to a put a line in the sand somewhere. As fans, we won't be able to afford complimentary guys to surround our star players.

Oh, and regarding the luxury tax, it's not a joke anymore. This is not a dollar-to-dollar tax on amounts above the luxury tax threshold. For us, as repeat offenders, we could be paying anywhere from $3.50 or $4.25 for every dollar above the luxury tax threshold. Look at the table below:


Tax levels from 2013–14
Amount over tax threshold Standard tax Repeat offender tax
$5 million or less $1.50 $2.50
$5 million to $10 million $1.75 $2.75
$10 million to $15 million $2.50 $3.50
$15 million to $25 million $3.25 $4.25

Assume a $70 million dollar luxury tax threshold. With Lin's contract and future picks/rookies, I could see a future payroll of about $90 million. So, we're $20 mill above the threshhold. That would previously have been $20 mill in luxury tax.

Now, that luxury tax bill would be: ($2.50 * 5 mill) + ($2.75* $5 mill) + ($3.50 * 5 mill) + ($5 mill * 4.25) = $63 million check.

Ouch

[GONYK]

genius, i did graduate from a business school btw. yes, i want to see the best team possible, but we have to be smart with our money. You know what it would mean if we actually matched Lin's offer sheet? Do you realize that Lin presented one offer sheet to the Knicks... agreed on it... then WENT BACK TO HOUSTON for more money.

Basically, he screwed over Dolan. If Dolan accepts, what message does that send out? We can't continue this path of getting royally screwed by overpaying for any sorts of talent. The team has to a put a line in the sand somewhere. As fans, we won't be able to afford complimentary guys to surround our star players.

Literally never happened.

Houston never presented Lin with an offer sheet until signing day, so Lin could never have presented Dolan with anything.

On top of that, Lin called the Knicks, and informed them about Houston upping their offer from what was reported, and Grunwald basically told him "do what you have to do, and we'll take care of it on our end"

[fergushenderson]

In the month of March he had a 1.65 assist to turnover ratio. You know who else had it that bad. Mr ballhog Tyreke Evans.

His shooting percent was 41%.

Shump, I have an exercise for you. Here are the stats of a player in the month of April last season (15 games): .389 FG% on 18.3 FGA, 5.6 AST, 3.3 TO, 1.7 AST/TO ratio.

Against good teams:
CHI .556
MEM .313
MIA .346
IND .304
LAC .300
LAL .136
DEN .500

This player's shooting stats are much worse than Lin's, and he also chucked it up like crazy despite shooting horribly. Without looking up who it is, would you want this player on your team?

[adrenaLINe]

genius, i did graduate from a business school btw. yes, i want to see the best team possible, but we have to be smart with our money. You know what it would mean if we actually matched Lin's offer sheet? Do you realize that Lin presented one offer sheet to the Knicks... agreed on it... then WENT BACK TO HOUSTON for more money.

Basically, he screwed over Dolan. If Dolan accepts, what message does that send out? We can't continue this path of getting royally screwed by overpaying for any sorts of talent. The team has to a put a line in the sand somewhere. As fans, we won't be able to afford complimentary guys to surround our star players.

Literally never happened.

Houston never presented Lin with an offer sheet until signing day, so Lin could never have presented Dolan with anything.

On top of that, Lin called the Knicks, and informed them about Houston upping their offer from what was reported, and Grunwald basically told him "do what you have to do, and we'll take care of it on our end"

dude needs to be slapped silly and stop listening to SA for still saying that....

its now 3 months later, in the internet age...

when you can type into a search box in the top right corner of your screen


a university graduate to boot...



* correction dude needs to go slap his professors at school for giving him such a poor education

wtf are they teaching kids these days

when I was growing up we had the luxury.... of typewriters and newspaper stacks in the library

[knicksnyk]

genius, i did graduate from a business school btw. yes, i want to see the best team possible, but we have to be smart with our money. You know what it would mean if we actually matched Lin's offer sheet? Do you realize that Lin presented one offer sheet to the Knicks... agreed on it... then WENT BACK TO HOUSTON for more money.

this is al BS it never went down like that.

Basically, he screwed over Dolan. If Dolan accepts, what message does that send out? We can't continue this path of getting royally screwed by overpaying for any sorts of talent. The team has to a put a line in the sand somewhere. As fans, we won't be able to afford complimentary guys to surround our star players.

this is factually wrong. lin would not have affected any future moves whatsoever. we are capped out and already paying luxury tax. all lin does is add more luxury tax and unless ure dolans wife or accountant why the **** should u care about his money? all fans should care about is the cap & we were able to go over the cap to keep lin so this is ridiculous. his contract wouldnt have prevented us from surrouding our stars with talent

Oh, and regarding the luxury tax, it's not a joke anymore. This is not a dollar-to-dollar tax on amounts above the luxury tax threshold. For us, as repeat offenders, we could be paying anywhere from $3.50 or $4.25 for every dollar above the luxury tax threshold. Look at the table below:


Tax levels from 2013–14
Amount over tax threshold Standard tax Repeat offender tax
$5 million or less $1.50 $2.50
$5 million to $10 million $1.75 $2.75
$10 million to $15 million $2.50 $3.50
$15 million to $25 million $3.25 $4.25

Assume a $70 million dollar luxury tax threshold. With Lin's contract and future picks/rookies, I could see a future payroll of about $90 million. So, we're $20 mill above the threshhold. That would previously have been $20 mill in luxury tax.

Now, that luxury tax bill would be: ($2.50 * 5 mill) + ($2.75* $5 mill) + ($3.50 * 5 mill) + ($5 mill * 4.25) = $63 million check.

Ouch

unless ure dolan, his wife or his accountant u shouldnt care less about the luxury tax. also the reason why the luxury tax is so massive is because oif melo amare & tysons contracts. lets say we move one of our big 3 our liuxury tax three years from now substantially dedecreases but as fans why do u CARE about anything that doesn't affect the cap.

[21shumpshumpst]

what was such a novelty about Lin. please explain this to me. was it because of all the hype? or the undrafted thing? or him being asian? what made him a novelty? ignore all the extra noise & focus on the on court product he played well he put the ball in the basket wtf is novel about that? Kyrie & rubio all had great seasons NOBODY calls what they did a novelty. Isiah thomas seriously outperformed his draft number NOBODY says anything about them. christ lin put up nice number too and yet he is the novelty i dont get it. if ricky rubio or kyrie had done in NY what Lin did they wouldn't be called a novelty at all. please somebody help me understand were there fairies and pixie dust flying over lins head when he was playing basektball. are we seruously crucifying someone because he played above and beyond expectations? is this what society has come to when an asian kid can be in the NBA & play well but if he plays too well oh hell No he is a novelty oh hell no he is overrated and all hype. wow i am not even asian and i am disgusted by all of this. like i wasnt even that mad about the knicks letting him go bcus i knew woody wouldn't wasnt sold on him so what is hte point of keeping him.

You are bringing race in shows your straw man argument. So if we think Lin was a novelty we are racists against asians? Please that has nothing to do with it. None of us have even hinted at that.

He could have been any race and I would still and others feel that he was a novelty for a 10 or so game stretch.

i hated bringing back felton & i most of all hated knick fans response. and there is a big differential between Lin & felton. right now Lin is better. and next season lin will only get better & felton will stay exactly the same.

Based on what? You have a crystal ball to tell us that? How do you know that teams haven't already figured him out. Because based on his shooting and a/to numbers in march they had already done that. Fact is you don't know this. You just spew as if it is gospel with nothing to back you up only a 13 game stretch where no one was paying attention to him. But carry on making your statements with no factual backing.

[21shumpshumpst]

unless ure dolan, his wife or his accountant u shouldnt care less about the luxury tax. also the reason why the luxury tax is so massive is because oif melo amare & tysons contracts. lets say we move one of our big 3 our liuxury tax three years from now substantially dedecreases but as fans why do u CARE about anything that doesn't affect the cap.

So to recap. If we overspend for other players the whole board goes up in arms about our salary cap and our luxury tax. But when it comes to Lin then its ok. Duly noted.

[21shumpshumpst]

unless ure dolan, his wife or his accountant u shouldnt care less about the luxury tax. also the reason why the luxury tax is so massive is because oif melo amare & tysons contracts. lets say we move one of our big 3 our liuxury tax three years from now substantially dedecreases but as fans why do u CARE about anything that doesn't affect the cap.

So to recap. If we overspend for other players the whole board goes up in arms about our salary cap and our luxury tax. But when it comes to Lin then its ok. Duly noted.

[21shumpshumpst]

In the month of March he had a 1.65 assist to turnover ratio. You know who else had it that bad. Mr ballhog Tyreke Evans.

His shooting percent was 41%.

Shump, I have an exercise for you. Here are the stats of a player in the month of April last season (15 games): .389 FG% on 18.3 FGA, 5.6 AST, 3.3 TO, 1.7 AST/TO ratio.

Against good teams:
CHI .556
MEM .313
MIA .346
IND .304
LAC .300
LAL .136
DEN .500

This player's shooting stats are much worse than Lin's, and he also chucked it up like crazy despite shooting horribly. Without looking up who it is, would you want this player on your team?

You are giving me random stats without context. Was this player the teams's first option, second or third? Was he a pg/f/C. Was the player injured or coming back from injury? Did team's constantly double this person and he had scrub teammates or was he just taking bad shots? Did said player have an above average streak which made other teams scout him harder?

Give me context. Also, is this player a rookie and this is his first 15 games or his last? Is he a 10 year vet and these are career lows? Maybe that means he is in a slump as his 10 year career shows these numbers are off. Context!

When I put up those numbers from Lin the context behind them was that when he was with D'antoni and a novelty to the league he put up big numbers. After teams started scouting him he didn't and his numbers fell back down to earth.

[21shumpshumpst]

I sorta disagree with blumatic, but he makes fair points. Why cant u be like that shumpshump?

I basically said what he has said but put up stats to back me up. I don't know what else you want from me.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Luxury tax is a bad excuse not too sign Lin after we committed long term to Camby, Kidd, Felton and Novak. I really don’t see how Camby and Kidd will be very useful in 2 years.

[21shumpshumpst]

But that can be said about any young pg.

My point is that everyone on this thread is saying we made a mistake and have no shot at winning a title.

NO ACTUAL STATS hint at that. None.

So you're saying it wasn't even a mistake to let him go?

They show a guy who had a great 14 game run then came back down to earth. Got figured out and shot a horrible percentage against bad teams. Now is he that bad as some of those games I listen? I don't think so. I think he will improve but not go back to that 2 week run he had.

But still averaged an impressive 5 ft's per game in only 31 minutes.

Point is nothing hints at the fact that Felton can't put up the numbers Lin put up during March which to some of you was good enough last year.

Except Felton has never come close to 5 ft's a game.

1) I am saying it wasn't a franchise altering loss like you guys make it out to be. Was it a loss? Sure. But nowhere near the impact that you guys are talking about.

2) No one is saying that drawing 5fts a game is not good. But to put it in context Rodney Stuckey averaged 6 fts a game in 30 mins.

3) Felon has averaged 4.1 fts a game in his third season. I would say that is close to 5.

[GettinitDone]

^Lin made tremendous adjustments from being vocal point of offense during Linsanity into a distributor when Melo and Amare came back. Veterans would have trouble adjusting from scoring 25ppg to 18ppg, but this kid did it seamlessly. And when will you learn that it's his second year?? His FIRST playing significant minutes. These things matter. You are talking as if Lin was already in his 5th-7th year, in his prime, and there's no hope of improvement from him. This is his friggin SECOND YEAR!! Fall back down to earth? It's supposed to be that way for young players, that means they're learning and progressing.

If this is what you do to Lin, I guess you will have a ball bashing Felton by next year when you find even more weaknesses (tunnel vision, even more inconsistency, even more bad shooting nights). I guarantee by season's end, you, HakeemKnick and Lin haters will wish Lin was here instead of Felton.

[fergushenderson]

You are giving me random stats without context. Was this player the teams's first option, second or third? Was he a pg/f/C. Was the player injured or coming back from injury? Did team's constantly double this person and he had scrub teammates or was he just taking bad shots? Did said player have an above average streak which made other teams scout him harder?

This player is a PG, the same age as Lin, but last season was his 4th in the league. He was not injured, and in fact started in all 15 games that his team played in April. I would say he was the 2nd option on his team and they are not scrubs. He also actually shot .492 in March, so you could say that he had an "above average streak" prior, like Lin.

So yes or no, would you want a player on your team who for a month performed as bad if not worse than Lin in March?

[knicksnyk]

unless ure dolan, his wife or his accountant u shouldnt care less about the luxury tax. also the reason why the luxury tax is so massive is because oif melo amare & tysons contracts. lets say we move one of our big 3 our liuxury tax three years from now substantially dedecreases but as fans why do u CARE about anything that doesn't affect the cap.

So to recap. If we overspend for other players the whole board goes up in arms about our salary cap and our luxury tax. But when it comes to Lin then its ok. Duly noted.

your logic is foolish & ure putting words in my mouth so I know that u dont know what ure talking about. i only care about a players money when it affects the salary cap. lins money doesn't affect our cap so i could care less. in fact the more luxury tax the better ticket prices are atrocious. if melo's contract didn't affect our cap I would have ccared less. if amare's contract didnt affect the cap i wouldnt have cared either. all i care about is the salary cap that is it. luxury tax is not my concern & it shouldnt be ures.

lmao all u can rely on is shooting and assist to turnover ratio lol pathetitc u have no point. and when did i call u a racist? funnny how u assumed that. race does play a part in this entire discussion. never said u or anyone was racist. and my question wasn't even addressed to u.