2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation

[lilfishi22]

Some interesting stats at the quarter season mark:

Net Rating
1. McGee (+10.6)
2. Bridges (+10.4)
3. Crowder (+9.9)
4. Frank (+9.6)
5. Book (+7.5)
6. CP3 (+6.3)
7. CamJo (+4.5)
8. Ayton (+3.0)
9. Shamet (+2.8)
10. Cam Payne (+0.9)
11. Nader (-0.9)
12. Elf (-9.0)

Offensive Rating
1. Crowder (113.8)
2. Bridges (113.5)
3. Booker (112.1)
4. Ayton (111.8)
5. CP3 (110.9)
6. McGee (109.8)
7. Frank (105.5)
8. Shamet (104.5)
9. CamJo (104.0)
10. Elf (101.6)
11. Cam Payne (100.8)
12. Nader (95.1)

Defensive Rating
1. Frank (96.0)
1. Nader (96.0)
3. McGee (99.3)
4. CamJo (99.4)
5. Cam Payne (99.9)
6. Shamet (101.7)
7. Bridges (103.1)
8. Crowder (103.9)
9. CP3 (104.6)
9. Booker (104.6)
11. Ayton (108.9)
12. Elf (110.5)

Possessions and USG%:
1. Bridges (1,755) (#14 in the league) / 13% USG% (lowest on the team)
2. CP3 (1,638) / 20.1% USG% (5th on the team)
3. Booker (1,439) / 30.8% USG% (highest on the team)

True Shooting %
1. McGee (67.5%) (#9 in the league)
2. Frank (63.5%)
3. Bridges (62.5%)
4. Ayton (62.4%)
5. CP3 (58.3%)
6. Booker (56.3%) (Lowest since his 3rd season in the league)
7. CamJo (55.9%) (Career low)
League Average: 55.3%
8. Shamet (55.2%) (Career low)
9. Crowder (53.0%) (Below career average)
10. Cam Payne (48.8%) (11.5% below his first two seasons with the Suns)
11. Elf (47.3%)
12. Nader (43.1)

AST/TO (surprising turn out)
1. CP3 (4.19) (#3 in the league)
2. Shamet (3.25)
3. Elf (2.75)
4. Frank (2.60)
5. Bridges (2.37)
6. CamJo (1.88)
7. Cam Payne (1.75)
8. Crowder (1.65)
8. Booker (1.65)
10. Ayton (0.84)

[lilfishi22]

At the quarter season mark, the Phoenix Suns are:

#7 in Offensive Rating
#2 in Defensive Rating (behind GSW)
#3 in Net Rating (behind GSW and UTA)
#4 in AST/TO at 1.90
#29 in Offensive Rebounding %
#21 in Defensive Rebounding %
#9 (lowest) in TOV
#3 in EFG%
#4 in TS%
#4 in Pace
#1 in FG%
#5 in 3P%
#15 in FT%
#13 in FTA
#4 in Assist per game
#11 (lowest) in TOV per game
#4 in Steals per game
#28 in Blocks per game
#4 in Opponent FG%
#17 in Opponent 3P%
#10 (lowest) in Opponent FTA
#5 (lowest) in Opponent TOV

[Ghost of Kleine]

Hell I'd rather just flip Smith and/or a 2nd round pick to Indi for Craig than pay more for Thad.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[Ghost of Kleine]

Hell I'd rather just flip Smith and/or a 2nd round pick to Indi for Craig than pay more for Thad.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Now that is a helluva idea I didn't think of. Thats a good one - if they are in fire sale mode - maybe they move on from Craig

I would for sure take him over Thad Young at this point, Good call Week. Plus I think the Suns would have to waive Nader or Smith to get to the 15 man roster to sign a buyout candidate so this does that for you.

Imagine being able to get Craig back in that trade ( I think we'd have to throw in either Nader or Hutchinson anyways though with Warren out with injury). So we'd have Payne/ Shamet ( once Book returns), Craig/ Johnson/ McGee. And still have the ability to add someone from the buyout pool too. We could end up with the deepest bench in the entire NBA.

[BobbieL]

Hell I'd rather just flip Smith and/or a 2nd round pick to Indi for Craig than pay more for Thad.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Now that is a helluva idea I didn't think of. Thats a good one - if they are in fire sale mode - maybe they move on from Craig

I would for sure take him over Thad Young at this point, Good call Week. Plus I think the Suns would have to waive Nader or Smith to get to the 15 man roster to sign a buyout candidate so this does that for you.

Imagine being able to get Craig back in that trade ( I think we'd have to throw in either Nader or Hutchinson anyways though with Warren out with injury). So we'd have Payne/ Shamet ( once Book returns), Craig/ Johnson/ McGee. And still have the ability to add someone from the buyout pool too. We could end up with the deepest bench in the entire NBA.

I think Nader would have to agree to be traded based on his contract. Hutchinson - two way player so not entirely sure how it works trading him

Craig cannot be traded until Dec 15 - so another week.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Now that is a helluva idea I didn't think of. Thats a good one - if they are in fire sale mode - maybe they move on from Craig

I would for sure take him over Thad Young at this point, Good call Week. Plus I think the Suns would have to waive Nader or Smith to get to the 15 man roster to sign a buyout candidate so this does that for you.

Imagine being able to get Craig back in that trade ( I think we'd have to throw in either Nader or Hutchinson anyways though with Warren out with injury). So we'd have Payne/ Shamet ( once Book returns), Craig/ Johnson/ McGee. And still have the ability to add someone from the buyout pool too. We could end up with the deepest bench in the entire NBA.

I think Nader would have to agree to be traded based on his contract. Hutchinson - two way player so not entirely sure how it works trading him

Craig cannot be traded until Dec 15 - so another week.

Not really fond of either honestly. Would prefer to keep Wainwright though due to strength and on ball defensive potential against guards like Holiday, etc. Should definitely be worth exploring though!

[darealjuice]

At the quarter season mark, the Phoenix Suns are:

#7 in Offensive Rating
#2 in Defensive Rating (behind GSW)
#3 in Net Rating (behind GSW and UTA)
#4 in AST/TO at 1.90
#29 in Offensive Rebounding %
#21 in Defensive Rebounding %
#9 (lowest) in TOV
#3 in EFG%
#4 in TS%
#4 in Pace
#1 in FG%
#5 in 3P%
#15 in FT%
#13 in FTA
#4 in Assist per game
#11 (lowest) in TOV per game
#4 in Steals per game
#28 in Blocks per game
#4 in Opponent FG%
#17 in Opponent 3P%
#10 (lowest) in Opponent FTA
#5 (lowest) in Opponent TOV

There's no reason that we should be #29 in ORB% and #28 in Blocks per Game with Ayton and McGee playing center. Obviously there's some Frank time in there, but he's also averaged (slightly) more blocks per game than Ayton in less playing time so far this season.

[Revived]

Imagine being able to get Craig back in that trade ( I think we'd have to throw in either Nader or Hutchinson anyways though with Warren out with injury). So we'd have Payne/ Shamet ( once Book returns), Craig/ Johnson/ McGee. And still have the ability to add someone from the buyout pool too. We could end up with the deepest bench in the entire NBA.

I think Nader would have to agree to be traded based on his contract. Hutchinson - two way player so not entirely sure how it works trading him

Craig cannot be traded until Dec 15 - so another week.

Not really fond of either honestly. Would prefer to keep Wainwright though due to strength and on ball defensive potential against guards like Holiday, etc. Should definitely be worth exploring though!

I’m not sure Wainwright will be good defensively against guards like Holliday. He’s better off guarding bigs and wings most likely.

Bryn Forbes, who is not all known for his athleticism, ball handling, or quickness, broke his ankles badly yesterday on a very simple left/right crossover move.

I like Wainwright but his defense against guards will likely be a weakness for him unless he’s able to shed some weight/strength to become more agile.

[Slim Charless]

At the quarter season mark, the Phoenix Suns are:

#7 in Offensive Rating
#2 in Defensive Rating (behind GSW)
#3 in Net Rating (behind GSW and UTA)
#4 in AST/TO at 1.90
#29 in Offensive Rebounding %
#21 in Defensive Rebounding %
#9 (lowest) in TOV
#3 in EFG%
#4 in TS%
#4 in Pace
#1 in FG%
#5 in 3P%
#15 in FT%
#13 in FTA
#4 in Assist per game
#11 (lowest) in TOV per game
#4 in Steals per game
#28 in Blocks per game
#4 in Opponent FG%
#17 in Opponent 3P%
#10 (lowest) in Opponent FTA
#5 (lowest) in Opponent TOV

There's no reason that we should be #29 in ORB% and #28 in Blocks per Game with Ayton and McGee playing center. Obviously there's some Frank time in there, but he's also averaged (slightly) more blocks per game than Ayton in less playing time so far this season.

Ayton doesn't really block alot of shots though he should, but doesn't foe some reason. That's why GOK's idea of getting Boucher is good one if possible. We could possibly get away with playing him at the 4 and getting some weakside blocks while moving Crowder to the bench.

I doubt the dinos just cut him and not sure what he's worth in a trade. Maybe Stix if they want him?

[King4Day]

I'm on board with getting Craig back too. Smith for him straight up or add a 2nd if necessary.
We then either nab Young as a buyout candidate, or we welcome back Saric come playoff time if he's healthy enough

[Ghost of Kleine]

Spoiler:

At the quarter season mark, the Phoenix Suns are:

#7 in Offensive Rating
#2 in Defensive Rating (behind GSW)
#3 in Net Rating (behind GSW and UTA)
#4 in AST/TO at 1.90
#29 in Offensive Rebounding %
#21 in Defensive Rebounding %
#9 (lowest) in TOV
#3 in EFG%
#4 in TS%
#4 in Pace
#1 in FG%
#5 in 3P%
#15 in FT%
#13 in FTA
#4 in Assist per game
#11 (lowest) in TOV per game
#4 in Steals per game
#28 in Blocks per game
#4 in Opponent FG%
#17 in Opponent 3P%
#10 (lowest) in Opponent FTA
#5 (lowest) in Opponent TOV

There's no reason that we should be #29 in ORB% and #28 in Blocks per Game with Ayton and McGee playing center. Obviously there's some Frank time in there, but he's also averaged (slightly) more blocks per game than Ayton in less playing time so far this season.

Ayton doesn't really block alot of shots though he should, but doesn't foe some reason. That's why GOK's idea of getting Boucher is good one if possible. We could possibly get away with playing him at the 4 and getting some weakside blocks while moving Crowder to the bench.

I doubt the dinos just cut him and not sure what he's worth in a trade. Maybe Stix if they want him?

There was a trade thread on the board mentioning his trade value I believe. Most had him for an expiring and a 2nd or two 2nds or something along those lines because he himself is an expiring contract too. I really think that something like a Smith swap with maybe a 2nd thrown in would get it done. As for his role, I'd definitely have him be situational. Definitely minutes here and there alongside Ayton too. But primarily for his defense against elite 3 point shooting teams.

Here's the thread on his percieved value:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2123084&p=93733058&hilit=Chris+Boucher+trade+value#p93733058

Something around 2 2nds + expiring youth with potential ( Smith) is fair value. Granted Boucher would be the ultimate value/ upside swap for us. The dream scenario would be to somehow trade one of Crowder or Johnson + a first maybe for " Timelord" next offseason. Or something along those lines honestly. Not sure what kind of value might need to be added though?

[lilfishi22]

At the quarter season mark, the Phoenix Suns are:

#7 in Offensive Rating
#2 in Defensive Rating (behind GSW)
#3 in Net Rating (behind GSW and UTA)
#4 in AST/TO at 1.90
#29 in Offensive Rebounding %
#21 in Defensive Rebounding %
#9 (lowest) in TOV
#3 in EFG%
#4 in TS%
#4 in Pace
#1 in FG%
#5 in 3P%
#15 in FT%
#13 in FTA
#4 in Assist per game
#11 (lowest) in TOV per game
#4 in Steals per game
#28 in Blocks per game
#4 in Opponent FG%
#17 in Opponent 3P%
#10 (lowest) in Opponent FTA
#5 (lowest) in Opponent TOV

There's no reason that we should be #29 in ORB% and #28 in Blocks per Game with Ayton and McGee playing center. Obviously there's some Frank time in there, but he's also averaged (slightly) more blocks per game than Ayton in less playing time so far this season.

I've heard/read that it's scheme related in that our focus is to get back on defense rather than offensive rebounding. But that's not reflected in the stats since we give up the 10th highest opponents fast break points. As for the blocks, McGee is the only one that's historically a good shot blocker, Ayton doesn't block a ton of shots but just plays solid defense.

[AtheJ415]

At the quarter season mark, the Phoenix Suns are:

#7 in Offensive Rating
#2 in Defensive Rating (behind GSW)
#3 in Net Rating (behind GSW and UTA)
#4 in AST/TO at 1.90
#29 in Offensive Rebounding %
#21 in Defensive Rebounding %
#9 (lowest) in TOV
#3 in EFG%
#4 in TS%
#4 in Pace
#1 in FG%
#5 in 3P%
#15 in FT%
#13 in FTA
#4 in Assist per game
#11 (lowest) in TOV per game
#4 in Steals per game
#28 in Blocks per game
#4 in Opponent FG%
#17 in Opponent 3P%
#10 (lowest) in Opponent FTA
#5 (lowest) in Opponent TOV

There's no reason that we should be #29 in ORB% and #28 in Blocks per Game with Ayton and McGee playing center. Obviously there's some Frank time in there, but he's also averaged (slightly) more blocks per game than Ayton in less playing time so far this season.

It's what killed us in the finals. Our guards and forwards did not go to the glass anywhere close to enough. Still a problem.

[AtheJ415]

We should be asking about Sabonis, Holiday, Craig, Warren and taking the best we can get without giving up Ayton, Bridges, Cam. I'm guessing that removes Sabonis, but the others may be attainable.

[AtheJ415]

Also, I think Jerami Grant is going nowhere, but I think Christian Wood would look really good with Paul, Book, and Monty mentoring him. His length would really help us at the 4 spot.

[Bogyo]

And once again, the realgm Suns board has all these good ideas to upgrade the team, and the Suns front office will just sit on their hands while our opposition will upgrade their teams. I'll be so happy in the offseason when we can discuss how we should have made the moves mentioned here and how we could have won it all with a slightly upgraded roster.
Go on, there are some really good ideas here.

[Bogyo]

At the quarter season mark, the Phoenix Suns are:

#7 in Offensive Rating
#2 in Defensive Rating (behind GSW)
#3 in Net Rating (behind GSW and UTA)
#4 in AST/TO at 1.90
#29 in Offensive Rebounding %
#21 in Defensive Rebounding %
#9 (lowest) in TOV
#3 in EFG%
#4 in TS%
#4 in Pace
#1 in FG%
#5 in 3P%
#15 in FT%
#13 in FTA
#4 in Assist per game
#11 (lowest) in TOV per game
#4 in Steals per game
#28 in Blocks per game
#4 in Opponent FG%
#17 in Opponent 3P%
#10 (lowest) in Opponent FTA
#5 (lowest) in Opponent TOV

There's no reason that we should be #29 in ORB% and #28 in Blocks per Game with Ayton and McGee playing center. Obviously there's some Frank time in there, but he's also averaged (slightly) more blocks per game than Ayton in less playing time so far this season.

I've heard/read that it's scheme related in that our focus is to get back on defense rather than offensive rebounding. But that's not reflected in the stats since we give up the 10th highest opponents fast break points. As for the blocks, McGee is the only one that's historically a good shot blocker, Ayton doesn't block a ton of shots but just plays solid defense.

Also, most of the teams are "giving up" on offensive rebounding, so it's not just our shceme. That means we still suck among all the teams at offensive rebounding becouse EVERYONE is giving up on offensive rebounding, WHILE we are giving up a lot of fast break points while having a decent (above par) turnover number.
Also, we are pretty bad at Defensive Rebounding % too - so it's an overall rebounding issue.
Hence the need for an upgrade at the (bench) bigs and big defensive wings.
Also - people who are crapping on Thad (and Nance) probably were saying how Blake Griffin and Love were done... They are (were) on sht teams, and didn't give a flying F. They just wanted to play a little to keep in shape, and not get injured. They will get back to their old ways once they play for a really good team in a specified (smaller) role that they can thrive in again.
So a trade for Craig, and scooping up Thad after his buyout would be my optimal scenario.

(Also, someone asked why Indy would want Wisemann for Sabonis while they have Turner... you have to start a rebuild somewhere. If you get 3 recent lottery picks who showed promise and you generally like -you pull the trigger, and worry about the redundancies later. They can trade or even fire-sale Turner later, they can have him around for another season to be the veteran big who can strech the floor and teach the youngins. Then they could trade Brogdon too for picks and a young player or two - that would have to be a nice package. Then they could have a young core of LeVert, Duarte, Moody, Kuminga, Wisemann + whoever they got for Turner and Brogdon. OK bench of McConnell, Holiday, Lamb, Warren, Bitadze...That is a nice young core with an OK bench. Certainly better situation then what they are in now.)

[Revived]

I just realized that previously coveted ‘21 unprotected Miami 1st rd pick that the Suns had ended up being Tre Mann drafted by OKC. We send it to Philly for Bridges and they send it to the Clippers for Tobias Harris and the Clippers eventually send it to the Thunder for Paul George.

What a crazy sequence. We sat on that pick for like 3.5 years after acquiring it before shipping it out then it got moved constantly. This has probably been mentioned here before but I missed it lol.

[Ghost of Kleine]

With the news of CJ McCollum being diagnosed with a collapsed right lung and no timetable for a return,

Watch on YouTube

Does it now look more likely that Lillard leaves, OR they look to blow it up with the Simmons trade likely dead now?

Should we have interest in trading for Covington as an alternative to Thad Young? Both are expirings. Covington at 12 million this season and Young at 14 million this season. Could Covington experience a resurgence here with Paul and Monty? If Portland is headed for a rebuild anyways, Would/ should they consider asset accumulation soon?

Would something along the lines of: Smith/ Saric and a first be appealing for them at this point? How much deeper could Covington make our bench this season too?

Payne/ Shamet/ Covington/ Johnson/ McGee.
** IF we couldn't swing a trade for Craig back from Indy??

Or we could flip Saric/ Hutchison and a first to Indy for Craig. And then Smith/ Nader and two 2nds for Boucher?

Now having a bench of:
Payne/ Shamet/ Craig/ Boucher/ Mcgee.
** Johnson takes a 6th man role this season. Sharing time with Boucher situationally. Cam on offense and Boucher on defense ( small ball lineups)? In either trade we upgrade our bench depth big time, and only lose players that don't really play much anyways. And minimal draft assets.

[AtheJ415]

With the news of CJ McCollum being diagnosed with a collapsed right lung and no timetable for a return,

Watch on YouTube

Does it now look more likely that Lillard leaves, OR they look to blow it up with the Simmons trade likely dead now?

Should we have interest in trading for Covington as an alternative to Thad Young? Both are expirings. Covington at 12 million this season and Young at 14 million this season. Could Covington experience a resurgence here with Paul and Monty? If Portland is headed for a rebuild anyways, Would/ should they consider asset accumulation soon?

Would something along the lines of: Smith/ Saric and a first be appealing for them at this point? How much deeper could Covington make our bench this season too?

Payne/ Shamet/ Covington/ Johnson/ McGee.
** IF we couldn't swing a trade for Craig back from Indy??

Or we could flip Saric/ Hutchison and a first to Indy for Craig. And then Smith/ Nader and two 2nds for Boucher?

Now having a bench of:
Payne/ Shamet/ Craig/ Boucher/ Mcgee.
** Johnson takes a 6th man role this season. Sharing time with Boucher situationally. Cam on offense and Boucher on defense ( small ball lineups)? In either trade we upgrade our bench depth big time, and only lose players that don't really play much anyways. And minimal draft assets.

Cov would be great here