The One And Only Offseason Thread 4

[tgtm_24]

I contend Bledsoe will hold out for a trade rather than play one minute as a sun. He does not have to sign anything. He does not have to play. It's too risky. Especially if he wants out of Phoenix.

He just wants money. He doesn't care where.

[Frank Lee]

So if Bledsoe publicly/privately states he will not be a Sun, we're still going to hold him over the fire? What will we do then? Force him to play? Because that is with be only Avenue Bledsoe has to get out of this situation and save face. We have contractual leverage over him, but Bledsoe ultimately decides where he will play and live.
He will still get paid market value somewhere.


His options may be limited but it's time y'all Wake up.... He does not want to play in Phoenix. He did not like the trade to get here. And he was hoping that through free agency, he would get either a big fat paycheck and/or a ticket out of town. He didn't get his paycheck did he?

[JDLAW]

"relationship is on the express lane to being ruined."

Does anyone actually talk like that? Makes me think and hope this was manufactured by bad writers in Rich Paul's camp.

Yeah - it's the good ole' "league sources" saying that. **** reporting, if you ask me. As has been pointed out several times, this is all a part of the process that the Suns, Bledsoe and his agent knew was coming. The Suns have done absolutely nothing wrong or shady throughout this process. This is Bledsoe's agent blaming the Suns for his inability to actually negotiate a contract for anyone not named LeBron.

Wouldn't this be Rich Paul's first real negotiation anyways? I mean LeBron is max and I know he reps other, random rookies, but has he ever actually negotiated a contract? Like real people do in the real world all the time?

It's Paul's second actual negotiation AFAIK. His first was Kevin Seraphin who is playing on the QO this season if that tells you anything...

It tells me two thing - Saraphin's QO was better than he could get on the market and Paul did not want to put much effort into boosting the market for a 6'9" 280 Lb center that played 10 mpg last year and missed 20 games with injuries.

[JDLAW]

So if Bledsoe publicly/privately states he will not be a Sun, we're still going to hold him over the fire? What will we do then? Force him to play? Because that is with be only Avenue Bledsoe has to get out of this situation and save face. We have contractual leverage over him, but Bledsoe ultimately decides where he will play and live.
He will still get paid market value somewhere.


His options may be limited but it's time y'all Wake up.... He does not want to play in Phoenix. He did not like the trade to get here. And he was hoping that through free agency, he would get either a big fat paycheck and/or a ticket out of town. He didn't get his paycheck did he?

Ultimately maybe, but not next season. It does not matter how much he whines or cries. If he wants to play in the NBA next year and the Suns want him, he will be here. By all accounts he is not getting a ticket out of town.

I do not know what you mean by "He will still get paid market value somewhere" He has been offered market value. No one else who has cap room can offer more at this point.

I know you're in favor of dumping him for whatever scraps someone will throw the Suns way, but that's not going to happen. Sarver has made a telling statement on the radio a couple of weeks back when he said I learned from the last go-around (referring to JJohnson). He then said the Suns would use the CBA's RFA status to their advantage. What I think he is referring to is that the Suns will not get into a pissing match/emotional confrontation with a player who wants both money and to leave - like what happened with JJohnson a situation he regretted ever since it happened.

In other words it is not going to be a repeat. If there is a sign and trade that is to the Suns advantage - they'll listen. If not, Bledsoe has a choice. If he wants out he can take the QO and leave next year. If he wants the $$ he'll negotiate or sign a contract.

BTW if he wants out so bad, why ask for a 5 year contract? I am thinking more and more that his agent thinks this is available from another team - it's not - and does not have an fundamental understanding of what is possible under the CBA.

[Christine-In-AZ]

My take...

I can somewhat understand how so many have decided "Bledsoe hates us" or "He doesn't want to be in Phoenix", but the failure to get the contract done and anything that he has said this summer, hasn't painted Eric as anti-Suns to me. It's just a combination of hard line business and personality leading many to this ugly conclusion.

Eric seems a pretty quiet guy, which can wrongly come off as being aloof or cold. Add those qualities to the situation and boom! "So, he doesn't want to play for the Suns". I can personally attest to being labeled "cold and aloof" when really just being a bit shy and quiet. The little we have heard from him, while not articulated well, did not strike me as anti-Phoenix.

While not making any pro Suns statements doesn't help his relationship with the fan base, those wounds are minor and will quickly be healed for most shortly after the post signing presser when there will be smiles on everyone's face. Eric making statements that he wants to remain with the Suns doesn't help in negotiations. It's just business. He's not dissing PHX. I doubt Eric's dream scenario list of where he's like to play is very short, Los Angeles certainly being on that list, but Phoenix I'm sure is still very high on his list of locales.

At this point there's no big plus in getting a deal done quickly. I think both sides know it'll get done when a deadline grows near. I don't believe the Suns are stressing or seeking a (near impossible) SnT. They're probably very confident a contract will happen...late, but that's ok. The small perk Bledsoe/Paul get by being in no rush for a solution is a goodly amount of "Eric Bledsoe" write-ups and many "Bledsoe" mentions on Grantland or other BBall podcasts...Even television sports broadcasts. Not huge, but some decent EB mystique building for his career long term. You can counter that "it's bad press", but you do know what they say about press in general.

Based on nothing, but I don't believe Paul asked for the absolute max. Way too high, but not the max. Something like 5 years/72-73 million. Probably even a player option beginning at year 4 so he can take advantage of the ballooning cap early and yet not accepting any (knee) injury risk. The Suns couldn't accept that type of contract for many reasons. The 5th year is probably as big a stumbling block as is the 2.5 million per year hike above the Suns 12 per.

A SnT seems near impossible to me. I can't imagine putting together the combination of- A team willing to give Bledsoe/Paul the huge numbers and stipulation they desire, that team being high on Eric's "list" AND that team also willing to give up the players/assets the Suns FO would need in return. That combination doesn't seem to exist right now or anytime soon. We are still 2 months from a deadline, and although it's unlikely, something in the overall make up of the league could shift during that period...a big trade or something could open up a SnT scenario. Highly unlikely, but it's might be another factor that is in the way of a contract solution.

Bledsoe/Paul and Babby/McDonough will come to an amicable solution probably late in September. 4 years, about 13 million per year, maybe some incentive package. A player option for the 4th year. Eric will be happy and say all the right things afterwards. He'll talk about being excited to get this contract done and about his excitement about being a Sun...building on what was accomplished last year. It won't be PR BS either. He'll mean what he says. Babby will admit it was a tough long, tough contractual debate, but it's part of the biz.

Only the most myopic Suns fans will hold this long delay in a contract signing against Eric. Everyone else will smartly move on from it.

...that's my take.

[JDLAW]

My take...

I can somewhat understand how so many have decided "Bledsoe hates us" or "He doesn't want to be in Phoenix", but the failure to get the contract done and anything that he has said this summer, hasn't painted Eric as anti-Suns to me. It's just a combination of hard line business and personality leading many to this ugly conclusion.

Eric seems a pretty quiet guy, which can wrongly come off as being aloof or cold. Add those qualities to the situation and boom! "So, he doesn't want to play for the Suns". I can personally attest to being labeled "cold and aloof" when really just being a bit shy and quiet. The little we have heard from him, while not articulated well, did not strike me as anti-Phoenix.

While not making any pro Suns statements doesn't help his relationship with the fan base, those wounds are minor and will quickly be healed for most shortly after the post signing presser when there will be smiles on everyone's face. Eric making statements that he wants to remain with the Suns doesn't help in negotiations. It's just business. He's not dissing PHX. I doubt Eric's dream scenario list of where he's like to play is very short, Los Angeles certainly being on that list, but Phoenix I'm sure is still very high on his list of locales.

At this point there's no big plus in getting a deal done quickly. I think both sides know it'll get done when a deadline grows near. I don't believe the Suns are stressing or seeking a (near impossible) SnT. They're probably very confident a contract will happen...late, but that's ok. The small perk Bledsoe/Paul get by being in no rush for a solution is a goodly amount of "Eric Bledsoe" write-ups and many "Bledsoe" mentions on Grantland or other BBall podcasts...Even television sports broadcasts. Not huge, but some decent EB mystique building for his career long term. You can counter that "it's bad press", but you do know what they say about press in general.

Based on nothing, but I don't believe Paul asked for the absolute max. Way too high, but not the max. Something like 5 years/72-73 million. Probably even a player option beginning at year 4 so he can take advantage of the ballooning cap early and yet not accepting any (knee) injury risk. The Suns couldn't accept that type of contract for many reasons. The 5th year is probably as big a stumbling block as is the 2.5 million per year hike above the Suns 12 per.

A SnT seems near impossible to me. I can't imagine putting together the combination of- A team willing to give Bledsoe/Paul the huge numbers and stipulation they desire, that team being high on Eric's "list" AND that team also willing to give up the players/assets the Suns FO would need in return. That combination doesn't seem to exist right now or anytime soon. We are still 2 months from a deadline, and although it's unlikely, something in the overall make up of the league could shift during that period...a big trade or something could open up a SnT scenario. Highly unlikely, but it's might be another factor that is in the way of a contract solution.

Bledsoe/Paul and Babby/McDonough will come to an amicable solution probably late in September. 4 years, about 13 million per year, maybe some incentive package. A player option for the 4th year. Eric will be happy and say all the right things afterwards. He'll talk about being excited to get this contract done and about his excitement about being a Sun...building on what was accomplished last year. It won't be PR BS either. He'll mean what he says. Babby will admit it was a tough long, tough contractual debate, but it's part of the biz.

Only the most myopic Suns fans will hold this long delay in a contract signing against Eric. Everyone else will smartly move on from it.

...that's my take.

Well said!!

[0013]

Yeah - it's the good ole' "league sources" saying that. **** reporting, if you ask me. As has been pointed out several times, this is all a part of the process that the Suns, Bledsoe and his agent knew was coming. The Suns have done absolutely nothing wrong or shady throughout this process. This is Bledsoe's agent blaming the Suns for his inability to actually negotiate a contract for anyone not named LeBron.

Wouldn't this be Rich Paul's first real negotiation anyways? I mean LeBron is max and I know he reps other, random rookies, but has he ever actually negotiated a contract? Like real people do in the real world all the time?

It's Paul's second actual negotiation AFAIK. His first was Kevin Seraphin who is playing on the QO this season if that tells you anything...

It tells me two thing - Saraphin's QO was better than he could get on the market and Paul did not want to put much effort into boosting the market for a 6'9" 280 Lb center that played 10 mpg last year and missed 20 games with injuries.

It makes me wonder if Paul is such a noob at the Agent biz that he was demanding too much for Seraphin as well. Size is at a premium in the NBA after all. It also makes me wonder if he will advise his other RFA client to also take the QO (which would be incredibly foolish given Bledsoe's injury history IMO). This may also explain all the rumors about the Cavs trying to trade Tristan Thompson (another Paul client) before his extension comes up.

[JDLAW]

It's Paul's second actual negotiation AFAIK. His first was Kevin Seraphin who is playing on the QO this season if that tells you anything...

It tells me two thing - Saraphin's QO was better than he could get on the market and Paul did not want to put much effort into boosting the market for a 6'9" 280 Lb center that played 10 mpg last year and missed 20 games with injuries.

It makes me wonder if Paul is such a noob at the Agent biz that he was demanding too much for Seraphin as well. Size is at a premium in the NBA after all. It also makes me wonder if he will advise his other RFA client to also take the QO (which would be incredibly foolish given Bledsoe's injury history IMO). This may also explain all the rumors about the Cavs trying to trade Tristan Thompson (another Paul client) before his extension comes up.

Good thought - could be I have no knowledge, but I have not seen any team's name connected to Seraphin. I always thought he was a respectable journeyman center, but he seemed to fall out of the Wiz' rotation last year and he PT was down to 10mpg from 21 the previous yr. I am not sure how much the Wiz wanted to keep him after signing Gortat.
The Cavs should give TT the max because he averages 11 and 9 and because Paul was so skillful in getting LBJ to return to the Cavs.

[JTrain]

He does not want to play in Phoenix. He did not like the trade to get here. And he was hoping that through free agency, he would get either a big fat paycheck and/or a ticket out of town.

Entirely possible, but what is the evidence?

[Saberestar]

Looking around the league - teams with cap space - teams that might want to do S&T - slim slim market for Eric Bledsoe

At some point, I'd anticipate Bledsoe re-signs w/ Suns instead of taking qualifying offer - but I expect the rhetoric to uglify before then

https://mobile.twitter.com/EricPincus

[PhxSuns1]

He does not want to play in Phoenix. He did not like the trade to get here. And he was hoping that through free agency, he would get either a big fat paycheck and/or a ticket out of town.

Entirely possible, but what is the evidence?

If that is true (which we don't know), then **** him. The Phoenix Metro area is great. Sure our summers are hot as hell, but we've got picture perfect weather 8 months out of the year, great nightlife/dining/shopping in Phoenix and especially Scottsdale. We've always been a great, classy organization who is one of the winningest teams in NBA history (win% wise). Now on top of that, our current upside is among the best in the league. If you really don't want to play here, take your ass to the Lakers and have fun getting destroyed by us year after year.

[PhxSuns1]

And **** what anyone says about his understated demeanor. He needs to seriously repair his reputation with the fans if he wants to re-sign here. He needs to verbally express it to the fans.

And also, in before someone comes at me saying "he doesn't owe us anything. this is a business."

[lilfishi22]

Who's Eric Pincus?

[lilfishi22]

If that is true (which we don't know), then **** him. The Phoenix Metro area is great. Sure our summers are hot as hell, but we've got picture perfect weather 8 months out of the year, great nightlife/dining/shopping in Phoenix and especially Scottsdale. We've always been a great, classy organization who is one of the winningest teams in NBA history (win% wise). Now on top of that, our current upside is among the best in the league. If you really don't want to play here, take your ass to the Lakers and have fun getting destroyed by us year after year.

And **** what anyone says about his understated demeanor. He needs to seriously repair his reputation with the fans if he wants to re-sign here. He needs to verbally express it to the fans.

And also, in before someone comes at me saying "he doesn't owe us anything. this is a business."

All this from baseless speculation?

[tgtm_24]

And **** what anyone says about his understated demeanor. He needs to seriously repair his reputation with the fans if he wants to re-sign here. He needs to verbally express it to the fans.

And also, in before someone comes at me saying "he doesn't owe us anything. this is a business."

No he doesn't, he needs to produce. Words are easy, actions are harder. Even if he says he wants to be here, some fans will just out it down as lip service. I think him being anti-Suns is the product of some over active imaginations. This process has two sides and each wants what's best for them. It's frustrating, but signing him for 4/48 could very easily turn out to be an absolute bargain and then we'll agree that it was certainly worth waiting for.

[Suns Court 23]

And **** what anyone says about his understated demeanor. He needs to seriously repair his reputation with the fans if he wants to re-sign here. He needs to verbally express it to the fans.

And also, in before someone comes at me saying "he doesn't owe us anything. this is a business."

No he doesn't, he needs to produce. Words are easy, actions are harder. Even if he says he wants to be here, some fans will just out it down as lip service. I think him being anti-Suns is the product of some over active imaginations. This process has two sides and each wants what's best for them. It's frustrating, but signing him for 4/48 could very easily turn out to be an absolute bargain and then we'll agree that it was certainly worth waiting for.

I agree but I would like for him to say that he is happy to be here and loves the city and the franchise.

[tgtm_24]

And **** what anyone says about his understated demeanor. He needs to seriously repair his reputation with the fans if he wants to re-sign here. He needs to verbally express it to the fans.

And also, in before someone comes at me saying "he doesn't owe us anything. this is a business."

No he doesn't, he needs to produce. Words are easy, actions are harder. Even if he says he wants to be here, some fans will just out it down as lip service. I think him being anti-Suns is the product of some over active imaginations. This process has two sides and each wants what's best for them. It's frustrating, but signing him for 4/48 could very easily turn out to be an absolute bargain and then we'll agree that it was certainly worth waiting for.

I agree but I would like for him to say that he is happy to be here and loves the city and the franchise.

Understand your point and that would be nice, but would prefer him to average 20/5/5 and not say it, than average 18/3/3 and say it.

[Revived]

Why do people keep thinking that a player saying "I want to return to ___" is bad tactic for negotiating?

James Harden said he wanted to stay in OKC. Dwight said he wanted to stay in Orlando. Nash said he wanted to stay in PHX.

And yet Harden, Dwight and Nash didn't have any trouble making the $$ that they wanted...

And that's just recent stuff. I'm sure there have been way more FAs who said they want to return to their old team and then left.

If Bledsoe said "I want to return to PHX' its not gonna make any other team hesitate about giving him a contact. They know its all PR talk.

[lilfishi22]

And **** what anyone says about his understated demeanor. He needs to seriously repair his reputation with the fans if he wants to re-sign here. He needs to verbally express it to the fans.

And also, in before someone comes at me saying "he doesn't owe us anything. this is a business."

No he doesn't, he needs to produce. Words are easy, actions are harder. Even if he says he wants to be here, some fans will just out it down as lip service. I think him being anti-Suns is the product of some over active imaginations. This process has two sides and each wants what's best for them. It's frustrating, but signing him for 4/48 could very easily turn out to be an absolute bargain and then we'll agree that it was certainly worth waiting for.

I agree but I would like for him to say that he is happy to be here and loves the city and the franchise.

Whether he means it or not, it'll be said like it always does at the players intro conference.

[Suns Court 23]

No he doesn't, he needs to produce. Words are easy, actions are harder. Even if he says he wants to be here, some fans will just out it down as lip service. I think him being anti-Suns is the product of some over active imaginations. This process has two sides and each wants what's best for them. It's frustrating, but signing him for 4/48 could very easily turn out to be an absolute bargain and then we'll agree that it was certainly worth waiting for.

I agree but I would like for him to say that he is happy to be here and loves the city and the franchise.

Understand your point and that would be nice, but would prefer him to average 20/5/5 and not say it, than average 18/3/3 and say it.

Well absolutely.