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Trade and free agency speculation

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AtheJ415
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1321 » by AtheJ415 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:23 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Also as comparisons, this was the 3PT% and eFG% of Boston's 8 man rotation last season
Tatum - .434/.538
Horford - .429/.553
Brown - .395/.540
Baynes - .143/.474
Kyrie - .408/.568
Mook - .368/.499
Rozier - .381/.491
Smart - .301/.440

They could afford to have one guy shoot 30% from the 3 with an overall .440eFG% because the rest of their rotations were at the very least capable 3PT shooters


:o

Shooting percentages generally goes down in the playoffs but here's Smart's shooting numbers during their playoff run

eFG% - .388
3PT% - .221 (on 4.5 attempts a game!?!)
2PT% - .440
TS% - .447

In a role where he'll be *expected* to create more for himself, others and find less open opportunities, I don't think Smart would be a wise choice.


His shooting and overall offensive performance cost them the Cavs series. I don't get why so many fans have an affinity for a guy who plays hard versus a guy who makes it look easy. The truth is that motor, clutchness, etc. is one of the most useless things in sports. Smart is a poor man's PJ Tucker imo, and you can't win a title with those guys are key components. You can if they are 5th/6th men role players, but not 8 figure guys over long term deals who need to make lives easier for others.
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1322 » by bwoolf2 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:28 am

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Also as comparisons, this was the 3PT% and eFG% of Boston's 8 man rotation last season
Tatum - .434/.538
Horford - .429/.553
Brown - .395/.540
Baynes - .143/.474
Kyrie - .408/.568
Mook - .368/.499
Rozier - .381/.491
Smart - .301/.440

They could afford to have one guy shoot 30% from the 3 with an overall .440eFG% because the rest of their rotations were at the very least capable 3PT shooters


:o

.
.
.
Edit: to clarify my :o:

Tatum - 34.3 3FG% on 4 3FGA*
Horford - 35.5 3FG% on 3.6 3FGA
Brown - 34.1 3FG% on 1.7 3FGA
Baynes - 0 3FGA
Kyrie - 40.1 3FG% on 6.1 3FGA
Mook - 33.1 3FG% on 4.5 3FGA
Rozier - 31.8 3FG% on 2.4 3FGA
Smart - 28.3 3FG% on 4.2 3FGA

Not that impressive, is it? The asterisk represents a college basketball stat; the rest are these players' percentages and attempts from the prior year. How did all of these players (save Kyrie and Smart) suddenly improve so dramatically?

You can't tell me Brown is a better shooter than Booker. If that's your opinion, you rely too heavily on stats. We all complain about our coaching and culture and mix of players, and then we assume these factors that negatively impact our team's production somehow wouldn't have a depressing affect on our players' stats.

Bender shot better from 3 last year than Horford had during any year of his career, save for last season. Bridges shot much better in college than did Tatum. Why can't Jackson or Warren improve, with a system that caters to, and personnel that compliments, their abilities? If you tell TJ to focus on the corner 3, I bet you he can get to 35% on moderate volume. I think Jackson has high-thirties in him - and maybe better. Brandon's down to a career 35.7 3FG%, after his disastrous first two seasons in Phoenix - better than any of the Celtics' rotation players other than Kyrie if you're looking at the previous year's stats.

I submit to you that if you put our current cast in a good system with Ayton in the middle, you'll see our players' percentages more closely approach their full potential. Certainly, Smart doesn't prevent other players from shooting the ball well. I submit to you that our roster as currently constructed - and with an additional point guard - will shoot the ball well and generate quality offense. Marcus Smart's deficiency in this regard I can't believe is so terrible as to negate that.

But what this squad does not have is great defenders. Dragan's good, but not great, and is limited in what he can do. Ayton obviously is no defensive savant. Booker's not a good defender and can only hope to get closer to average, IMO. TJ's underrated, but not great. Jackson should be solid but I don't think will ever be a stopper. And Knight - well, I'm just hoping for "not bad." Bridges is the only blue-chip defender in that core group.

I think Marcus Smart elevates his teammates, and that he would help plug the HUGE hole on the defensive end in our Booker-Knight-[???]-JJ-Daniels-[Okobo] backcourt rotation. If you don't see that the hole in the backcourt is not shooting, but defense, I don't know what to tell you. We have the talent on offense and a coach that can get us to good or great on that end. On defense? That's where we need better players. Ain't nobody coaching well enough to turn Knight/Booker into a solid defensive backcourt.

The ONLY reasons I'm dubious about the prospect of adding Smart is how impressed I was by Shaq's performance at the end of last season, and how willing Smart and Knight are to taking a bench role. If not for those factors, Marcus would be clear and away my Plan A for the offseason. I go back and forth on whether he's Plan or Plan B, but in any case, he's foremost in my mind when I think of this year's free agents.



Why would we possibly invest 30+ million in a role player that cant shoot and has no chance of getting better at shooting in his career or on a team that is signficantly worse that the team he currently plays for. And elevates his teammates, I think its his teammates and their abilities to knock down shots and spread the floor that elevate him. He would be worse offensively on the suns that on the C's less lanes to drive through. Come on people now is not the time to make more poor investments in average players because we want to win 2 more games a year. Just like the Sixers we are almost there, if their is a JJ Redick type of 1 year deal to be had then we do that, but no longer term deals we will all hate about mid way through this year.
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1323 » by SlovenianDragon » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:31 am

We had a great draft lets not **** things up now.
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1324 » by bigfoot » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:33 am

AtheJ415 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
:o

Shooting percentages generally goes down in the playoffs but here's Smart's shooting numbers during their playoff run

eFG% - .388
3PT% - .221 (on 4.5 attempts a game!?!)
2PT% - .440
TS% - .447

In a role where he'll be *expected* to create more for himself, others and find less open opportunities, I don't think Smart would be a wise choice.


His shooting and overall offensive performance cost them the Cavs series. I don't get why so many fans have an affinity for a guy who plays hard versus a guy who makes it look easy. The truth is that motor, clutchness, etc. is one of the most useless things in sports. Smart is a poor man's PJ Tucker imo, and you can't win a title with those guys are key components. You can if they are 5th/6th men role players, but not 8 figure guys over long term deals who need to make lives easier for others.


Yep, if folks are talking Smart for $14M per year for four years that would be a death blow to the Suns. I would much rather take on PJ Tucker's contract for the next three years if we are in that dire of straits for a defensive PG or PF who can hit the three. Tired of having non-shooters on this team. We either 1) make a trade for a star player that moves the needle or 2) sign FAs for one year so we have cap room next year. Just say no to mediocre free agents.
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1325 » by SuperSunsFan » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:33 am

Archie Goodwin could be better than Smart if he was given a chance to play for Brad Stevens.
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1326 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:34 am

AtheJ415 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Also as comparisons, this was the 3PT% and eFG% of Boston's 8 man rotation last season
Tatum - .434/.538
Horford - .429/.553
Brown - .395/.540
Baynes - .143/.474
Kyrie - .408/.568
Mook - .368/.499
Rozier - .381/.491
Smart - .301/.440

They could afford to have one guy shoot 30% from the 3 with an overall .440eFG% because the rest of their rotations were at the very least capable 3PT shooters


:o

.
.
.
Edit: to clarify my :o:

Tatum - 34.3 3FG% on 4 3FGA*
Horford - 35.5 3FG% on 3.6 3FGA
Brown - 34.1 3FG% on 1.7 3FGA
Baynes - 0 3FGA
Kyrie - 40.1 3FG% on 6.1 3FGA
Mook - 33.1 3FG% on 4.5 3FGA
Rozier - 31.8 3FG% on 2.4 3FGA
Smart - 28.3 3FG% on 4.2 3FGA

Not that impressive, is it? The asterisk represents a college basketball stat; the rest are these players' percentages and attempts from the prior year. How did all of these players (save Kyrie and Smart) suddenly improve so dramatically?

You can't tell me Brown is a better shooter than Booker. If that's your opinion, you rely too heavily on stats. We all complain about our coaching and culture and mix of players, and then we assume these factors that negatively impact our team's production somehow wouldn't have a depressing affect on our players' stats.

Bender shot better from 3 last year than Horford had during any year of his career, save for last season. Bridges shot much better in college than did Tatum. Why can't Jackson or Warren improve, with a system that caters to, and personnel that compliments, their abilities? If you tell TJ to focus on the corner 3, I bet you he can get to 35% on moderate volume. I think Jackson has high-thirties in him - and maybe better. Brandon's down to a career 35.7 3FG%, after his disastrous first two seasons in Phoenix - better than any of the Celtics' rotation players other than Kyrie if you're looking at the previous year's stats.

I submit to you that if you put our current cast in a good system with Ayton in the middle, you'll see our players' percentages more closely approach their full potential. Certainly, Smart doesn't prevent other players from shooting the ball well. I submit to you that our roster as currently constructed - and with an additional point guard - will shoot the ball well and generate quality offense. Marcus Smart's deficiency in this regard I can't believe is so terrible as to negate that.

But what this squad does not have is great defenders. Dragan's good, but not great, and is limited in what he can do. Ayton obviously is no defensive savant. Booker's not a good defender and can only hope to get closer to average, IMO. TJ's underrated, but not great. Jackson should be solid but I don't think will ever be a stopper. And Knight - well, I'm just hoping for "not bad." Bridges is the only blue-chip defender in that core group.

I think Marcus Smart elevates his teammates, and that he would help plug the HUGE hole on the defensive end in our Booker-Knight-[???]-JJ-Daniels-[Okobo] backcourt rotation. If you don't see that the hole in the backcourt is not shooting, but defense, I don't know what to tell you. We have the talent on offense and a coach that can get us to good or great on that end. On defense? That's where we need better players. Ain't nobody coaching well enough to turn Knight/Booker into a solid defensive backcourt.

The ONLY reasons I'm dubious about the prospect of adding Smart is how impressed I was by Shaq's performance at the end of last season, and how willing Smart and Knight are to taking a bench role. If not for those factors, Marcus would be clear and away my Plan A for the offseason. I go back and forth on whether he's Plan or Plan B, but in any case, he's foremost in my mind when I think of this year's free agents.



That's exactly what he does. You do not need to guard him and thus can shadow, help, or double whoever the hell on the other team you want. Smart is the worst offensive PG in about 30 years. That impacts your offense in a big way. Boston has a system that is geared around each player's strengths and minimizes their weaknesses. They have maximized the ability of the players on that team, as evidenced by the massive dropoff in production by nearly every role player that has left there. I submit to you that it is reasonable to assume Smart would do similar, in that his defense and offense would both get worse leaving there. And that regardless, he is an awful fit for this team because we need shooting every bit as much as we need defense. We need 3 & D not 3 or D.


We need a lot of things, but grit and heart and intensity on the defensive end most of all. Bradley's a great defender in his own right, and I'm open to him, too. He's a better one-on-one defender than Smart. But he can't switch onto bigs and he doesn't get you the extra possessions Smart generates with hustle plays. Both of those guys are good fits for us, but Bradley's not a PG, and not as good a fit next to Brandon. I also think the injury concerns with Bradley are more significant than with Smart, fwiw.
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1327 » by jredsaz » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:46 am

Revived wrote:
GoranTragic wrote:I would prefer Bradley over Smart. Does he even want to play here?

All Celtics media feels he will chase the money so he will come here as long as he gets paid.


Smart or Bradley?
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1328 » by Revived » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:47 am

jredsaz wrote:
Revived wrote:
GoranTragic wrote:I would prefer Bradley over Smart. Does he even want to play here?

All Celtics media feels he will chase the money so he will come here as long as he gets paid.


Smart or Bradley?

Smart.
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1329 » by BobbieL » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:51 am

Revived wrote:
darealjuice wrote:
Read on Twitter

Pathetic. I'm losing respect for Cuban for him doing this after Jordan humiliated them last time.


Wes Matthews and a future first isn;t great but for the Clippers - he can opt out and they get nothing. So, they trade for Gortat, get Matthews - maybe they will be in a more willing move to trade Beverly for a future 2nd :)

Beverly REALLY would be ideal. One year deal 5m - low risk, high upside. Maybe you sign a guy like Mbah Moute for under 7m and Sauce sticks around or you move Daniels to clear space to get a little better option at the 4

Smart - just not worth it
Bradley - Suns need a ball distributor
Lowry - I can see the value but I don't see the Raptors taking Knight and that does clog the cap next year
Van Fleet 3/30 or so - maybe more, just not sure the right use of funds

Hopefully this deal goes through for Jordan and Beverly can come to Phoenix. Bring Lance next to him - like I said "burr in the saddle" or a bit or "snark". Have Dudley get in shape to be the stretch 4 - he can be better than Ilysova or Bjelinac and roll with cap space next summer.
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1330 » by Christine-In-AZ » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:53 am

Revived wrote:
darealjuice wrote:
Read on Twitter

Pathetic. I'm losing respect for Cuban for him doing this after Jordan humiliated them last time.


IDK if the Mavs adding Jordan would be a good move or not...nor am I prejudging a Dallas-LAC trade, but I'd actually give Cuban more respect for not holding a grudge against DJ, in the interest of building a better team.
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1331 » by King4Day » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:55 am

Much as I hate the Spurs, if there's one thing to admire, it's that they will not get screwed by the Lakers. They know what's going on and I think their plan is to threaten to move him elsewhere if they don't get a good offer. If I'm Buford, I demand Kuzma, Ingram, Hart and a pick. I force them to give up all assets.
That way, they will have little to nothing else to improve their roster after signing their big 3. Maybe it'll still be enough, but just show Magic who his daddy is when it comes to GM work.
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1332 » by Jdiddy701 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:56 am

If I had to guess, I say the Suns will be one of the teams with a chance to get Kemba Walker. I know it’s been talked about here. I think he ends up in Phoenix. I can’t be mad at this lineup.

Walker
Booker
Bridges
Jackson
Ayton



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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1333 » by Jarlaxle0204 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:59 am

How much do you think it would take to get Exum?
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1334 » by AtheJ415 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:00 am

If Lebron truly doesn't want to play with Lonzo, I wonder if we jump in here. Suns supposedly liked him at the draft, and while he was a horrendous shooter last year and needs to reinvent his shot imo, he was much better on defense than expected and was a good rebounder and passer.
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1335 » by jredsaz » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:03 am

Jdiddy701 wrote:If I had to guess, I say the Suns will be one of the teams with a chance to get Kemba Walker. I know it’s been talked about here. I think he ends up in Phoenix. I can’t be mad at this lineup.

Walker
Booker
Bridges
Jackson
Ayton



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I think we would have to give up significant assets to get him and I dont want to sign him to a massive deal when he hits free agency in 2019. Hornets have an eye on Sexton if LeBron stays. If that deal goes away I still think that is the kind NJ of value they are looking for. I don't want to give that up.
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1336 » by jredsaz » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:07 am

AtheJ415 wrote:If Lebron truly doesn't want to play with Lonzo, I wonder if we jump in here. Suns supposedly liked him at the draft, and while he was a horrendous shooter last year and needs to reinvent his shot imo, he was much better on defense than expected and was a good rebounder and passer.


Lonzos shooting is suspect and his form is as bad as anyone's in the NBA. What makes him a significantly better prospect than Smart?
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1337 » by Jdiddy701 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:08 am

Jdiddy701 wrote:If I had to guess, I say the Suns will be one of the teams with a chance to get Kemba Walker. I know it’s been talked about here. I think he ends up in Phoenix. I can’t be mad at this lineup.

Walker
Booker
Bridges
Jackson
Ayton




Also want to throw in that Lebron should consider joining the Phoenix Suns. The Suns can make this happen. I really hope the relationship with James Jones can have him hear us out.

Shawshank Redemption - “hope can drive a man insane.”


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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1338 » by Wilber85 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:09 am

I hate Lavar Ball, but I am 100% on board of taking on Deng, & Ball for something.

imagine

Ball
Booker
Jackson
Bender
Ayton

That is probably one of the best cores in the league who all will be under 22 years old.

Imagine keeping them together for 4 years in a row. Ball has the pass first mentality, and defense to be perfect next to Booker.
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1339 » by Revived » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:11 am

I'd rather have Josh Hart than Lonzo any day of the week!
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Re: Trade and free agency speculation 

Post#1340 » by Revived » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:11 am

Hart actually fits very well with Booker in the backcourt as well.

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