Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 6

[WeekapaugGroove]

Man if this isn't scary enough...

We're tied for the worst record in the NBA. But we're 2 games from being the 8th worst (record wise).
I fear that when Booker returns, we're going to pull ourselves apart from the other teams and wind up 5-8. Hope I'm wrong.
Having 4 more games left against the Warriors isn't the worst thing. 3rd toughest schedule too.

With their schedule I have faith they finish top 5 but man it would be the most suns thing ever to land 8 in a 7 player draft.

[BobbieL]

All of that said, I am okay not going with Gordon in the event Ayton is drafted. I am comfortable with Bender and Chriss. I just don't know who, this offseason, we could reasonably use our cap space for aside from them. I suppose at that point i'd prefer punting to next offseason, explaining to Booker why we are punting, and try to max out one of the many worthwhile guys next year.

If we keep Payton, I don't even think we'd have enough to sign Gordon anyway. Even letting Williams, Reed, Peters, Ulis, Len go, that gives us like $22 million or something for Payton and whoever else. If Payton got $8 then we'd have $14 left and they'd probably match.

We'd have a few million more if we traded the Heat pick too I guess.

I agree that next year, with Chandler and Dudley expiring and the cap expected to increase more, is the way to go with much more cap space (provided Booker will wait on signing his next deal).

I am not ready - today - to renounce Williams or Reed. Saving for my 2019 Max deal

So, I guess my numbers are down to 6 to 8m depending on the Heat pick. It might just be a guy the Suns can buy - Jeremy Lamb, one year left for 7m - trade a second rounder and Charlotte saves 7m bucks just like that.

[NTB]

Read on Twitter

[bwgood77]

Len being renounced only puts us a couple million under assuming we keep our draft picks (4 &14). Then if we renounce Peters it gets us to like $3.7 in cap space. Then if we don't pick up guarantees on Williams, Ulis and Reed, that gives us another $8.5 or so, which puts us at a little over $12 million in space.

Then if we sign Payton for $8 million which is a couple of million less than his cap hold, that could get us up to $14 million.

The only way we really end up with anywhere close to like $20+ million in cap room is if we don't pick up any guarantees (Williams, Reed, Ulis), renounce everyone (Payton, Peters, Len).

OR trade our draft picks...particularly our own first, which I doubt we do.

I'm guessing we keep Williams, Ulis and Reed, which leaves us around $13-$14 million to sign free agents, including Payton. If we keep Payton, it doesn't seem like we'll have much.

So what is your suggestion? Do you think we should go all in this summer, make some bold moves? Or ride it out with Payton, give him a contract of $8 million a year, draft whoever with our pick, and see what happens next season?
Reason I ask, is this is the scenario I been playing over, we hop on board the timeline trade, develop our youth, and eventually they reach their next contract and we can't actually use any money on free agency since we capped ourselves out. Perhaps we grow organically and mold into a playoff team, and eventually become a contender. Though it takes an incredible amount of luck.

I'm really not sure who I want in this draft right now, but I'm hoping they will be that final missing piece of the puzzle.

I don't know what going all in means. I'll have to see Payton play. If we keep Payton we are somewhat limited in other FA moves we could make unless we start letting guys like Williams walk, but it wouldn't create THAT much space anyway. Would I like to let Payton walk so we could throw a bunch of money at Capela or Gordon in RFA and hope the team doesn't match? Probably not.

The first domino to fall is seeing who we draft. Then we decide if we want to go bid on a free agent or keep Payton around. 2019 free agency makes sense, but only if Booker waits to sign.

It seems like most playoff teams do grow organically. The usually sign their big names after they are in the playoffs. There are exceptions, like Houston and Cleveland, the super teams coming together. Everyone else mostly grows organically. Minnesota did for a long while until they finally cashed in.

If there was a team with a youngish star that was looking to rebuild like Chicago was last year, when they traded Butler, then we could make an offer.

Though Minnesota had to give up their past top 5 pick who had gotten off to a rough start (Dunn...for us that would be Jackson)...the #7 pick...which we could if we land there, and a solid young player....LaVine....I guess Warren would have to fit there...same draft.

I can't really think of any worthwhile trades though.

[WeekapaugGroove]

To me Reed is the least likely of the non-guaranteed guys to get cut this offseason. He hasn't shown anything but I think they give it a year to see what he looks like healthy before moving on. His potential as a 3 and D guy and cheap salary makes it worth another look.

Ulis to me is a different story. His salary is nothing and frankly you probably let him come to camp and battle for a job but personally I've seen enough to believe he's not an NBA player.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

I wonder if he means "until" all star break or if he will also not be doing the 3 pt shooting contest.

[MathiasPW]

All of that said, I am okay not going with Gordon in the event Ayton is drafted. I am comfortable with Bender and Chriss. I just don't know who, this offseason, we could reasonably use our cap space for aside from them. I suppose at that point i'd prefer punting to next offseason, explaining to Booker why we are punting, and try to max out one of the many worthwhile guys next year.

If we keep Payton, I don't even think we'd have enough to sign Gordon anyway. Even letting Williams, Reed, Peters, Ulis, Len go, that gives us like $22 million or something for Payton and whoever else. If Payton got $8 then we'd have $14 left and they'd probably match.

We'd have a few million more if we traded the Heat pick too I guess.

I agree that next year, with Chandler and Dudley expiring and the cap expected to increase more, is the way to go with much more cap space (provided Booker will wait on signing his next deal).

While I agree, 2019 will also have more competition as more bad contracts expire and cap increases for everyone. We are at a unique position this off-season where less than a handful of teams have cap and lots of bad teams have salaries to shed. I just don't know yet how to capitalize on it this year and then land the final blow next offseason.

[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

tankng without tanking
(but its smart as if Booker takes this week off - that will be two more weeks with the ASB coming up)

though I do think its very important that Booker and Payton play together the last 20+ games of the year

have to see if Payton is the answer as part of the rotation next year with Booker and Knight.

[WeekapaugGroove]

As far at the cap maneuvering I don't really think it's all that important. If this team makes a splash and adds a 'star' type it's going to be by trade not free agency.

[NTB]

Read on Twitter

I wonder if he means "until" all star break or if he will also not be doing the 3 pt shooting contest.

Read on Twitter

[bigfoot]

As far at the cap maneuvering I don't really think it's all that important. If this team makes a splash and adds a 'star' type it's going to be by trade not free agency.

Agree ... we don't have $25M-$35M unless we trade Dudley and Chandler.

[Jdiddy701]

Anybody saying to cut Ulis needs to relax. He is not a bad backup. Many are judging him for his play when he’s started. He deserves to be in the NBA, just not a starter.

Let him run the second unit and you’ll change your mind about him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RunDogGun]

Anybody saying to cut Ulis needs to relax. He is not a bad backup. Many are judging him for his play when he’s started. He deserves to be in the NBA, just not a starter.

Let him run the second unit and you’ll change your mind about him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It depends what we do in the draft and if we sign Payton. With his height, he really needs to be a great shooter, which he is not. It’s too easy to back him down, for almost any guard. I don’t hate him, but he will most likely not be needed.

[BobbieL]

Anybody saying to cut Ulis needs to relax. He is not a bad backup. Many are judging him for his play when he’s started. He deserves to be in the NBA, just not a starter.

Let him run the second unit and you’ll change your mind about him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am only releasing Ulis if Payton doesn't work out AND the Suns need cap space to get a better player. I am not release just to release. I am releasing or including in trade scenarios that might need dollars to match.

Maybe a full season of Payton and getting Knight back plus players like Booker, Warren, JJ, Chriss and Bender getting better - is enough to improve this team. I still can see the need, even if not a splash - for a player that might help the bench

[RunDogGun]

All of that said, I am okay not going with Gordon in the event Ayton is drafted. I am comfortable with Bender and Chriss. I just don't know who, this offseason, we could reasonably use our cap space for aside from them. I suppose at that point i'd prefer punting to next offseason, explaining to Booker why we are punting, and try to max out one of the many worthwhile guys next year.

If we keep Payton, I don't even think we'd have enough to sign Gordon anyway. Even letting Williams, Reed, Peters, Ulis, Len go, that gives us like $22 million or something for Payton and whoever else. If Payton got $8 then we'd have $14 left and they'd probably match.

We'd have a few million more if we traded the Heat pick too I guess.

I agree that next year, with Chandler and Dudley expiring and the cap expected to increase more, is the way to go with much more cap space (provided Booker will wait on signing his next deal).

While I agree, 2019 will also have more competition as more bad contracts expire and cap increases for everyone. We are at a unique position this off-season where less than a handful of teams have cap and lots of bad teams have salaries to shed. I just don't know yet how to capitalize on it this year and then land the final blow next offseason.

What is Payton’s cap hold? Couldn’t we sign Gordon and then sign Payton? If that is the route we wanted to go? Couldn’t we stretch Knight?

[King4Day]

If we keep Payton, I don't even think we'd have enough to sign Gordon anyway. Even letting Williams, Reed, Peters, Ulis, Len go, that gives us like $22 million or something for Payton and whoever else. If Payton got $8 then we'd have $14 left and they'd probably match.

We'd have a few million more if we traded the Heat pick too I guess.

I agree that next year, with Chandler and Dudley expiring and the cap expected to increase more, is the way to go with much more cap space (provided Booker will wait on signing his next deal).

While I agree, 2019 will also have more competition as more bad contracts expire and cap increases for everyone. We are at a unique position this off-season where less than a handful of teams have cap and lots of bad teams have salaries to shed. I just don't know yet how to capitalize on it this year and then land the final blow next offseason.

What is Payton’s cap hold? Couldn’t we sign Gordon and then sign Payton? If that is the route we wanted to go? Couldn’t we stretch Knight?

It sounds like his cap hold would be more than what he'll likely get

[NTB]

Read on Twitter

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

Can they sit Durant, Steph and Klay too? THEN it would've been an entertaining game.

[BobbieL]

While I agree, 2019 will also have more competition as more bad contracts expire and cap increases for everyone. We are at a unique position this off-season where less than a handful of teams have cap and lots of bad teams have salaries to shed. I just don't know yet how to capitalize on it this year and then land the final blow next offseason.

What is Payton’s cap hold? Couldn’t we sign Gordon and then sign Payton? If that is the route we wanted to go? Couldn’t we stretch Knight?

It sounds like his cap hold would be more than what he'll likely get

Cap hold is just under 10m

I have been speculating the 7-8m range based on what Sweet Lou received from Clippers. Granted, maybe Sweet Lou took less to play for the Clippers. But the market seems like it will not be robust this summer. Two years, option in year 3 (player or team) with the same numbers for Lou - IF he shows something the last third of the season.

[Saberestar]

Anybody saying to cut Ulis needs to relax. He is not a bad backup. Many are judging him for his play when he’s started. He deserves to be in the NBA, just not a starter.

Let him run the second unit and you’ll change your mind about him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It depends what we do in the draft and if we sign Payton. With his height, he really needs to be a great shooter, which he is not. It’s too easy to back him down, for almost any guard. I don’t hate him, but he will most likely not be needed.

I want to have Ulis on the roster next season. He is young, cheap and he is a great teammate to have around.

No reason to cut him, he is not an starter player but he can be a good backup or, at least, a third string PG.