The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

Revived · Post #1341 » by **Revived** » Wed May 23, 2018 7:55 pm

I see a lot of people post “You have to draft Ayton because he will average 20 & 10 in the NBA for sure!!”.

If all we’re looking for is someone to average 20 & 10 then let’s just trade the pick for Kevin Love.

I would guarantee that Love can average 20 & 10 here (just like he did in Minny) albeit the Suns may only win 30-40 games a season. But if all we’re looking for is empty stats then Love would be the way to go imo.

Not seriously advocating this but just pointing out the flaw of the 20 & 10 reasoning.

JMac1 · Post #1342 » by **JMac1** » Wed May 23, 2018 7:59 pm

Blonde wrote:
JMac1 wrote:
Blonde wrote:Shaq wasn’t skilled? Come on now...

And you can’t just name a bunch of random wings to try to prove that Doncic doesn’t have a unique skillset. You listed a bunch of guys that aren’t primary initiators, are much smaller than him, are on their way out of the league, or can’t shoot. He’s closer to Simmons, Giannis, Lebron, George, Harden than Beal, Tatum, Kuzma, and Derozan.

Yea. Shaq wasn’t what Duncan was for frame of reference. Shaq couldn’t shoot a effing freethrow or 10 footer. Those are skills. Shaq was an amazing athlete that used his god given size and strength to over power players. Shaq never practiced anything! Skill is learned as was discussed earlier with myself and the Euro.

Athleticism is skill as well, but not learned. I’m talking learned skills. I hope you understand where I’m coming from. Dump it in to Shaq and he dunks it.

Edit: my question and point was who is harder to find. i think I did a fairly decent job showing there are more polished wings than C’s. I guess Doncic is one of a kind now. Ok

Guess Ben Simmons isn’t skilled then. It seems like the only Shaq you've seen is Phoenix Shaq.

You can’t run your offense through Otto **** Porter man. Yes, Doncic is a unique player. But if you see him as Kuzma or Otto Porter and Ayton is better than Shaq and Boogie then its no surprise to see you leading the Ayton parade. I’ll save myself the effort.

All the wings are different man. The point is they are effective in their own way. I named good wing players. You can name more good wing players that good C’s. Also included in that list was Kawhi and George and Lebron and Harden, lmao!! I guess you missed those names huh? But it cool I get it.

Could you please quote where I said Ayton is better than anyone let alone Shaq or Boogie. Please quote me next time.

If you think Ayton isn’t more unique than Doncic then I don’t know what to say to you other than please don’t try to spin my words.

darealjuice · Post #1343 » by **darealjuice** » Wed May 23, 2018 8:04 pm

Revived wrote:I see a lot of people post “You have to draft Ayton because he will average 20 & 10 in the NBA for sure!!”.

If all we’re looking for is someone to average 20 & 10 then let’s just trade the pick for Kevin Love.

I would guarantee that Love can average 20 & 10 here (just like he did in Minny) albeit the Suns may only win 30-40 games a season. But if all we’re looking for is empty stats then Love would be the way to go imo.

No one is talking about a 30 year old unathletic power forward with the #1 pick. 20/10 is just an arbitrary stat line people are throwing out, what they want is a young dominant franchise center and they see that in Ayton.

sunsbum · Post #1344 » by **sunsbum** » Wed May 23, 2018 8:04 pm

Revived wrote:Hard to see those on the phone.

They are glorious.

bigfoot · Post #1345 » by **bigfoot** » Wed May 23, 2018 8:07 pm

kennydorglas wrote:

Read on Twitter

It's happening .....

Villalobos · Post #1346 » by **Villalobos** » Wed May 23, 2018 8:07 pm

Revived wrote:I see a lot of people post “You have to draft Ayton because he will average 20 & 10 in the NBA for sure!!”.

If all we’re looking for is someone to average 20 & 10 then let’s just trade the pick for Kevin Love.

I would guarantee that Love can average 20 & 10 here (just like he did in Minny) albeit the Suns may only win 30-40 games a season. But if all we’re looking for is empty stats then Love would be the way to go imo.

it's also not at all a lock to being true. plenty of offensive focused bigs' offensive game didn't translate to the pros, most recently Okafor. Beasley was an insane offensive big in college and he's only just recently started living up to that offensive potential on decent efficiency in his late 20s (course he's still near worthless in every other aspect of the game).

I think people forget how excited everyone was about Okafor. Lakers fans were practically drooling for an entire year about his amazing offense, his can't miss post skill, his generational big-man-ness. (btw, Okafor had a slightly higher DWS and DBPM than Ayton :-?

)

darealjuice · Post #1347 » by **darealjuice** » Wed May 23, 2018 8:09 pm

Read on Twitter

Not sure if anyone posted this, but there's a podcast on the Suns app now hosted by Lindsey Smith. They had James Jones and Sean Miller on today, plenty of talk about Ayton. Haven't finished listening yet myself, but someone on Reddit broke down the basketball/Ayton-related stuff from the Podcast.

bigfoot · Post #1348 » by **bigfoot** » Wed May 23, 2018 8:10 pm

sunsbum wrote:

Love this steve nash picture.

Look at those rookie muscles on Nash ... Doncic can never be athletic

JMac1 · Post #1349 » by **JMac1** » Wed May 23, 2018 8:11 pm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mavsmoneyball.com/platform/amp/2018/5/23/17382344/nba-draft-2018-deandre-ayton-dallas-mavericks-player-profile

Yup!

Blonde · Post #1350 » by **Blonde** » Wed May 23, 2018 8:11 pm

JMac1 wrote:
Blonde wrote:
JMac1 wrote:
Yea. Shaq wasn’t what Duncan was for frame of reference. Shaq couldn’t shoot a effing freethrow or 10 footer. Those are skills. Shaq was an amazing athlete that used his god given size and strength to over power players. Shaq never practiced anything! Skill is learned as was discussed earlier with myself and the Euro.

Athleticism is skill as well, but not learned. I’m talking learned skills. I hope you understand where I’m coming from. Dump it in to Shaq and he dunks it.

Edit: my question and point was who is harder to find. i think I did a fairly decent job showing there are more polished wings than C’s. I guess Doncic is one of a kind now. Ok

Guess Ben Simmons isn’t skilled then. It seems like the only Shaq you've seen is Phoenix Shaq.

You can’t run your offense through Otto **** Porter man. Yes, Doncic is a unique player. But if you see him as Kuzma or Otto Porter and Ayton is better than Shaq and Boogie then its no surprise to see you leading the Ayton parade. I’ll save myself the effort.

All the wings are different man. The point is they are effective in their own way. I named good wing players. You can name more good wing players that good C’s. Also included in that list was Kawhi and George and Lebron and Harden, lmao!! I guess you missed those names huh? But it cool I get it.

Could you please quote where I said Ayton is better than anyone let alone Shaq or Boogie. Please quote me next time.

If you think Ayton isn’t more unique than Doncic then I don’t know what to say to you other than please don’t try to spin my words.

It was clearly implied when you said Boogie is a non athletic bully and Ayton is Shaq sized but more skilled. And your list didn’t include Lebron, Simmons, or Giannis aka the point forwards I referenced. But it’s okay, I know remembering what you said can be difficult when you make so many thoughtless posts.

JMac1 · Post #1351 » by **JMac1** » Wed May 23, 2018 8:17 pm

bigfoot wrote:
sunsbum wrote:

Love this steve nash picture.

Look at those rookie muscles on Nash ... Doncic can never be athletic

Yea, Nash turned into a high flier after that. He was dunking on tons of people and was strong as a bull. Should have seen how he went from not being able to guard Parker to shutting him down after he got his diet and training right. I’m working with his trainer right now and he is gonna get me down to a 9.3 100M.

kennydorglas · Post #1352 » by **kennydorglas** » Wed May 23, 2018 8:17 pm

bigfoot wrote:
sunsbum wrote:

Love this steve nash picture.

Look at those rookie muscles on Nash ... Doncic can never be athletic

RED FLAG
BAD WORK ETHIC

JMac1 · Post #1353 » by **JMac1** » Wed May 23, 2018 8:18 pm

Blonde wrote:
JMac1 wrote:
Blonde wrote:
Guess Ben Simmons isn’t skilled then. It seems like the only Shaq you've seen is Phoenix Shaq.

You can’t run your offense through Otto **** Porter man. Yes, Doncic is a unique player. But if you see him as Kuzma or Otto Porter and Ayton is better than Shaq and Boogie then its no surprise to see you leading the Ayton parade. I’ll save myself the effort.

All the wings are different man. The point is they are effective in their own way. I named good wing players. You can name more good wing players that good C’s. Also included in that list was Kawhi and George and Lebron and Harden, lmao!! I guess you missed those names huh? But it cool I get it.

Could you please quote where I said Ayton is better than anyone let alone Shaq or Boogie. Please quote me next time.

If you think Ayton isn’t more unique than Doncic then I don’t know what to say to you other than please don’t try to spin my words.

It was clearly implied when you said Boogie is a non athletic bully and Ayton is Shaq sized but more skilled. And your list didn’t include Lebron, Simmons, or Giannis aka the point forwards I referenced. But it’s okay, I know remembering what you said can be difficult when you make so many thoughtless posts.

I didn’t imply crap. That’s his style of play. Ayton is Shaq size and more skilled. I guess you underestimated the strength and force of Shaq, because I didn’t say he had that.

Watch the attacks! Your mother is a thoughtless whore who owes me money!

bigfoot · Post #1354 » by **bigfoot** » Wed May 23, 2018 8:23 pm

OMG ... your mamma battle coming up

kennydorglas · Post #1355 » by **kennydorglas** » Wed May 23, 2018 8:25 pm

Whew.
GO LUKASQUAD

Post #1356 » by **bwgood77** » Wed May 23, 2018 8:27 pm

JMac1 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
JMac1 wrote:
They can’t. Question. Do you think it’s harder to get an Ayton or a Doncic?

Equally hard. There are only one of each. My biggest worry about either is the potential lack of good interior defense from a C. Will he ever be a plus defender? Maybe? You would think with the size and athleticism. Only a couple of people are doubting his ability to dominate on offense and on the boards.

I also think there are more guys with height and talent in the league than Durant, Giannis and AD.

Name them. I can’t counter your point of view with out names. They should pop out if they are common players. I can name tons of wings George Harden Durant Thompson Hayward Tatum Booker Kahwi Porter Kuzman Iggy Melo Butler DeRozan Wiggins Beal Wade Oladipo...

Name the top centers in the league.

Name how many people have height and talent in the NBA? That could take a long time. Here was your quote I was referring to

Ayton has height and talent. The only guys like that in the league are Durant Giannis and AD!

Embiid, Jokic, Towns, the list goes on and on......I mean heck you didn't even mention LeBron.

Superhuman · Post #1357 » by **Superhuman** » Wed May 23, 2018 8:28 pm

bigfoot wrote:
sunsbum wrote:

Love this steve nash picture.

Look at those rookie muscles on Nash ... Doncic can never be athletic

Muscles don't equal athleticism. Yes Nash grew muscles, but he never became athletic to improve on defense. If you're 19 yrs old and don't have the athleticism of majority of the NBA, it's almost impossible to become athletic. Ayton has all the tools and God given ability to improve on defense. Doncic otoh not so much...

Villalobos · Post #1358 » by **Villalobos** » Wed May 23, 2018 8:34 pm

8on · Post #1359 » by **8on** » Wed May 23, 2018 8:35 pm

Still want to know where Doncic excels as a scorer in the NBA. If not, might as well trade the pick for Lonzo. At least Lonzo can defend point guards

8on · Post #1360 » by **8on** » Wed May 23, 2018 8:41 pm

Bob8 wrote:If Ayton had realistic possibilities to become new Shaq or Robinson, we wouldn’t have this thread and Suns would be already selling his shirts.

We would. This debate is about two great prospects. One might just be a better bet than the other. The only reason we wouldn’t be having this debate is if either of them were clearly better than the other....

Ayton vs Doncic, Who you picking?