Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0

[Hair Canada]

The in-depth case against Brandon Clarke by Jeremy Woo of SI.com.
https://www.si.com/nba/2019/05/28/nba-draft-2019-lottery-prospects-deandre-hunter-romeo-langford?xid=socialflow_twitter_si&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=thecrossover

He has been constantly down on Clarke as a prospect all season - never moving him beyond mid-20s and most of the season in the 2nd round. I disagree with this assessment - but always interesting to see the counter argument.

Yes, an interesting take. And there's, of course, a chance that he's right. But I also disagree and believe Clarke should be a lottery and could really be a useful contributing player to some teams (Minnesota? Boston?) if given a chance. which, by the way, is about all you can ask from someone in the 10-14 picks range; you'd be amazed at how many of the players picked in this range do not pan out at all. I once looked it up and I think around half of them do not even become useful bench players (many of them wash out of the league in just a couple of years). So in an apparently weak draft like this one? Certainly seems to be worth it to have someone who at the very least will become a good defender and high-percentage, if limited, offensive role player. But maybe it's just the Canadian in me talking...

[mojo13]

Deadline for early entrants to remove themselves from the draft and return to schoolis tomorrow.
Wigginton announced he is staying in today. Shittu announced a couple days ago (along with Iggy, Dort, Brissett, Clarke, NAW, Barrett).

Waiting on Andrew Nembhard and AJ Lawson to announce something (likely that they are returning to school?).

Wigginton did not attend the combine so there is no going back if he is undrafted. Brissett, Shittu, Iggy, Dort etc theoretically could return to school if undrafted.


No word on Kabengele - but as a likely 1st round lock, we can assuming he is staying in.

AJ Lawson has announced he is returning to South Carolina.
Hopefully he plays for the u19 team.

[And1Skip]

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?s=21

[mojo13]

Mirotic - or anyone else deep into Euro ball (UCanwill?).
Can you give us a end of season run down on any top Canadians in Europe that may crack the senior team roster this summer?
I am thinking the following:
Kevin Pangos - seemed to have a much poorer season in Barcelona than last year in Zalgaris (seemed to have lost his shooting touch) Is that a system thing? After that season i am much less optimistic he can help us too much other than a 4th or 5th guard.
Phil Scrubb - tougher to get news out of Russia but it seemed he was fairly good once again. Didn’t see much news on him this year.
Melvin Ejim - similar to Scrubb, I didn’t see much news. But it seems Ejim had another decent year - still more of a do everything glue guy seemingly even in the VTB. Not a huge scorer - but would have some big games from time to time.
Thomas Scrubb - had a fantastic year in Italy. Although is with weaker club than some of the others, he seemed to have a breakout year. Saw some rumors he could be moving up to the ACB. We could be really short at SF and I can see him making the team.
Kyle Wiltjer - seemed he was fairly up and down. The down being that he still had major struggles on the defensive end. His offense was a little hit or miss and on the days he was off, he was struggling to help his team. I even saw some press that the fans were really starting to turn on him - to the point where the coach publicly defended him.

I think those are the main four. I doubt Dylan Ennis or Kenny Chery get brought in this late in the game. We known Xavier Rathan Mayes really struggled in Greece (and is in Israel now). Are any others worth mentioning? Conor Morgan, Dyshawn Pierre, Oliver Hanlan, Kaza Keane, Aaron Best, Owen Klassen etc.

[DoctaJ]

Nurse coaching sounds great to me.

Also Rana joining Walton is surprising. Anyone know what that means for Ryerson and Canada?

[BilboBanginz]

No surprises. Florida looks like they could be legit next year.

Read on Twitter

[aminiaturebuddha]

No surprises. Florida looks like they could be legit next year.

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Smart move. He'll get solid minutes and experience as the lead guard for a decent team, rather than spending the year mixed in with a bunch of other similar level "not-ready-for-the-NBA" players in the G-League, which is where he likely would have been most of the time.

[MD0817]

Kevin Pangos - seemed to have a much poorer season in Barcelona than last year in Zalgaris (seemed to have lost his shooting touch) Is that a system thing? After that season i am much less optimistic he can help us too much other than a 4th or 5th guard.

Mostly system. Barca's Pesic is a tough, oldfashioned coach, doesn't like improvisations too much and doesn't rely on PG too much. The same Jasikevicius, former coach of Pangos in Zalgiris, played under Pesic in his player career days and had quite a tough time. I think Pangos made a wrong choice signing there, and it looks like Pesic is about to stay for next season, so maybe Kev should move somehwere else if there'll be a chance

Phil Scrubb - tougher to get news out of Russia but it seemed he was fairly good once again. Didn’t see much news on him this year.

Good season, only in the end of it he lost a bit of rhythm. Not the best one to his team tho - lot of injuries, Brandon Jannings drama, longtime coach leaving in the middle of the season

Melvin Ejim - similar to Scrubb, I didn’t see much news. But it seems Ejim had another decent year - still more of a do everything glue guy seemingly even in the VTB. Not a huge scorer - but would have some big games from time to time.

Had injury and missed biggest part of 2018 this season. Then as usual was reliable guy, some decent games, some worse, but when all are healthy Unics has wide rotation in frontcourt with some good performers, so it's natural.

[BilboBanginz]

U-16 Team Announced

http://basketball.ca/en/news-article/u16-mens-national-team-announced-ahead-of-fiba-u16-americas-cham?fbclid=IwAR1S_sAgamev0gCEhQLmkNbt97DPemsHiCjsQtS5bBzraJAvOh84m0O4i6w

[BilboBanginz]

Watch on YouTube

[Hair Canada]

Watch on YouTube

Great video. He seems to be very well aware of both his strengths and limitations. If he does become a better ball-handler and passer, he can be a really nice NBA player.

[BilboBanginz]

Givony is still high on Barrett

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[Hair Canada]

U-16 Team Announced

http://basketball.ca/en/news-article/u16-mens-national-team-announced-ahead-of-fiba-u16-americas-cham?fbclid=IwAR1S_sAgamev0gCEhQLmkNbt97DPemsHiCjsQtS5bBzraJAvOh84m0O4i6w

For those interested, here's the link to my rolling preview of the Canadian team:

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1845465

[BilboBanginz]

Someone posted the latest ESPN mock on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/bwax38/insider_request_nba_mock_draft_firstround/

3. RJ Barrett
14. Brandon Clarke
17. Mfiondu Kabengele
18. Nickeil Alexander-Walker
27. Luguentz Dort

No Canadians in the 2nd Round (Brazdeikis, Brissett, Shittu, Shayok, Wigginton).

[Mirotic12]

Mirotic - or anyone else deep into Euro ball (UCanwill?).
Can you give us a end of season run down on any top Canadians in Europe that may crack the senior team roster this summer?
I am thinking the following:
Kevin Pangos - seemed to have a much poorer season in Barcelona than last year in Zalgaris (seemed to have lost his shooting touch) Is that a system thing? After that season i am much less optimistic he can help us too much other than a 4th or 5th guard.
Phil Scrubb - tougher to get news out of Russia but it seemed he was fairly good once again. Didn’t see much news on him this year.
Melvin Ejim - similar to Scrubb, I didn’t see much news. But it seems Ejim had another decent year - still more of a do everything glue guy seemingly even in the VTB. Not a huge scorer - but would have some big games from time to time.
Thomas Scrubb - had a fantastic year in Italy. Although is with weaker club than some of the others, he seemed to have a breakout year. Saw some rumors he could be moving up to the ACB. We could be really short at SF and I can see him making the team.
Kyle Wiltjer - seemed he was fairly up and down. The down being that he still had major struggles on the defensive end. His offense was a little hit or miss and on the days he was off, he was struggling to help his team. I even saw some press that the fans were really starting to turn on him - to the point where the coach publicly defended him.

I think those are the main four. I doubt Dylan Ennis or Kenny Chery get brought in this late in the game. We known Xavier Rathan Mayes really struggled in Greece (and is in Israel now). Are any others worth mentioning? Conor Morgan, Dyshawn Pierre, Oliver Hanlan, Kaza Keane, Aaron Best, Owen Klassen etc.

From the Canadian players I've watched some in Europe.....

EuroLeague level players:

3 of these 4 are actually in EuroCup (Wiltjer, D. Ennis, P. Scrubb), but I think they could all play at EuroLeague level in the right team and role, with the caveat being that Wiltjer would probably be the worst defender in the league.

Phil Scrubb
Dylan Ennis

are good enough for Canada's national team as backups. For me they are probably Canada's best players that are in Europe.

Pangos and Wiltjer

are also good enough for Canada's national team as backups, and would be the next best Canadian players in Europe after P. Scrubb and D. Ennis (although Pangos' quality is overrated in this forum and Wiltjer is unbelievably bad on defense).........

EuroCup / FIBA Champions League level players (Europe's second tier level)

Heslip - I think everyone here knows him well enough - great shooter, but basically a one dimensional player. Could always be useful for Canada as an 11 / 12 man in a sniper role. Isn't at the level of what is needed to make it in EuroLeague.

Ejim is a decent role player, can help a team on defense, grab some rebounds, make some athletic plays in the open court - that's it. Very limited player overall. Could help Canada as a defensive role player / rebounder. Isn't at the level of what is needed to make it in EuroLeague.

Thomas Scrubb - I guess he would be OK for a team like Canada as an 11th-12th man type guy. He's better than Doornekamp, but that's not saying that much. Not a EuroLeague level player.

Doornekamp - I think everyone here has a pretty good idea on him also. He's a good defender, and he can knock down the 3. A 3 and D player and that's pretty much it. I don't think he's what Canada needs.

Then, these guys for me are not really good enough for Europe's second tier level, which is EuroCup / FIBA Champions League, and are more G-League, China, Australia, or smaller European clubs level...

Xavier Rathan Mayes - he's just not that good of a player, at least as a point guard
Dyshawn Pierre - he's a bad player
Olivier Hanlan - he's just not that good of a player
Owen Klassen - just not good at all

I haven't seen these guys enough to really say for sure...

Aaron Best - I haven't watched him enough, but from the little I have seen of him, I think he could probably be OK as an 11/12 man for Canada.

Kaza Keane - I haven't really seen him enough to know what he could do for Canada. He has nice stats though in a small European team and league.

Kenny Chery - I haven't seen enough of him to really comment on him as a player. But his stats, for the level of what is a .500 French League team, are mediocre.

Conor Morgan - I haven't seen enough of him to really say what he could do for Canada. But he seems like a decent player, from the little I have seen of him.

[mojo13]

Thanks Mirotic - very helpful.
I don't disagree with allot (I too have fallen off the Pangos bandwagon a bit) - but a couple comments where I think you are being a little harsh.

Kenny Cherry is third in scoring for the Pro-A at fairly decent percentages (40% from 3 for 2.6 made 3s a game, 94%FT, 43 FG% overall), plus 4.3 assists per game and 1.6 steals . I don't see how he is putting up mediocre numbers. Those are league leading numbers (on a mediocre team) and he likely is in line for a club upgrade. Not that he should play Canada at the WC...but I point him out as I think most don't know what level he is playing at. Definitely a better PG than XRM, Keane. Probably our best PG outside the NBA after Pangos, Scrubb, Ennis.

Thomas Scrubb has had a very good year in the Series-A - always a good defensive player who really expanded his offense this year (14ppg 7rbd 2.5asst on .47 FG%, .35 3PT% on 1.6 made threes a game. I'm seeing rumors of ACB clubs interested in him (but no idea who yet). Scrubb somewhat unfortunately could be our starting SF, if player turnout breaks the way I expect.

Dyshawn Pierre has had a great recent stretch for Sassari in the Series-A playoffs (~17PPG with good two way play), they just swept Armani Milano (a EL team) in the semis and move to the finals. But yes, I don't see him factoring in for Canada.

Melvin Ejim - we have consistently seen him show for Canada and be one of our better players. I think you are underselling his all-around glue guy game. He is a key piece for UNICS, who wouldn't you agree are better than a good number of EuroLeague teams? We are pretty sure Ejim will have a role for Team Canada this summer - probably over a NBA player or two. But with depth we have, I agree he is best suited to a defensive role-player type role.

I'm hoping Dylan Ennis is involved in camp. I just don't know what having Nick Nurse as head coach means to the team.

[Mirotic12]

Thanks Mirotic - very helpful.
I don't disagree with allot (I too have fallen off the Pangos bandwagon a bit) - but a couple comments where I think you are being a little harsh.

Kenny Cherry is third in scoring for the Pro-A at fairly decent percentages (40% from 3 for 2.6 made 3s a game, 94%FT, 43 FG% overall), plus 4.3 assists per game and 1.6 steals . I don't see how he is putting up mediocre numbers. Those are league leading numbers (on a mediocre team) and he likely is in line for a club upgrade. Not that he should play Canada at the WC...but I point him out as I think most don't know what level he is playing at. Definitely a better PG than XRM, Keane. Probably our best PG outside the NBA after Pangos, Scrubb, Ennis.

Thomas Scrubb has had a very good year in the Series-A - always a good defensive player who really expanded his offense this year (14ppg 7rbd 2.5asst on .47 FG%, .35 3PT% on 1.6 made threes a game. I'm seeing rumors of ACB clubs interested in him (but no idea who yet). Scrubb somewhat unfortunately could be our starting SF, if player turnout breaks the way I expect.

Dyshawn Pierre has had a great recent stretch for Sassari in the Series-A playoffs (~17PPG with good two way play), they just swept Armani Milano (a EL team) in the semis and move to the finals. But yes, I don't see him factoring in for Canada.

Melvin Ejim - we have consistently seen him show for Canada and be one of our better players. I think you are underselling his all-around glue guy game. He is a key piece for UNICS, who wouldn't you agree are better than a good number of EuroLeague teams? We are pretty sure Ejim will have a role for Team Canada this summer - probably over a NBA player or two. But with depth we have, I agree he is best suited to a defensive role-player type role.

I'm hoping Dylan Ennis is involved in camp. I just don't know what having Nick Nurse as head coach means to the team.

To really know the qualify of a player in Europe, it's not just the league he plays in, it's the team he plays in. Think of NCAA to help understand it.

While it is important in NCAA what conference you play in, what is more important is what team you play in. If you play in a major conference and a major team, that is much different than playing in just a major conference.

All of these guys like Ejim, P. Scrubb, Pierre.........they couldn't make it in EuroLeague, unless they maybe played in some low budget one year in team like Darussafaka, Budocnost, Gran Canaria, etc. Even then, they would be secondary role players.

It's like Pangos as another example. Playing in Zalgiris is great and all, but playing in Barca is a whole entirely different level. It's like playing in the Kings for years, and then all of a sudden you go to the Spurs. You can't just look at the league, or the record of the team, or even its results like with Pierre's team (I really don't think Milano even cares about Italian league - in fact last year after they won it, their management even said they no longer cared after they checked it off).

Yes, part of the issue with Pangos is the system, as Zalgiris' system is designed for the point guard and it inflates stats. But the real reason is just because in a team like Zalgiris there is 1 or maybe 2 good players at your position, and in teams like Barca, there are at least 2, and often 3 good players at your position. In a team like Zalgiris, there are no stars, not a single player that is individually among the best. In a team like Barca, there will always be a couple of guys that are among the best players in Europe. A completely different level of difficulty for a player to succeed in.

When it goes to the level of guys like P. Scubb, Pierre, Keny Chery................the 12th man of a big EuroLeague team is in all likelihood, better than they are (in fact it's almost a sure bet). Chery can be the best player on a .500 team in France, he can be one of the best players on a non EuroLeague Spanish team..........and he could still be worse than the 12th man of a big EuroLeague team. - I haven't watched him play enough to say in his specific case, but just that a player with those stats in his team could easily be worse than a 12th man of a big EuroLeague team.

So basically, it's like taking a a mediocre team from the Big East in NCAA, and saying that a player there could be compared to a guy on Kentucky. So, could Kentucky's 10th man be as good or better than a top player in some random other power conference team? Yes. It's even actually much more exaggerated in European club basketball.

That's why it is always so ridiculous when US sports media says ACB is the 2nd best league in the world......because you could take the best player from a Spanish league team, even let's say one that's in the top 6-8 best teams in the league.......and that best player on like a 6th place ACB team might very well not be good enough to make it as the 12th man of Real Madrid or Barca. Yet, people would associate any player in ACB as being "in the best league".....No.

It's the league and the team, and specifically EuroLeague, and specifically the big clubs. So a guy might look good in Italian League or whatever, but he can be miles away from being good enough to make it in a big EuroLeague team.

On this year's UNICS compared to this season's EuroLeague teams...well, I would say they are better than this year's Darussafaka and Gran Canaria. Every other EuroLeague team is better. Most are significantly better.

[mojo13]

Team USA camp names are starting to come out:
https://www.espn.com/olympics/basketball/story/_/id/26904472/sources-lillard-beal-part-usa-hoops-camp

Damian Lillard
CJ McCollum
James Harden
Eric Gordon
Jayson Tatum
Donovan Mitchell
Khris Middleton
P.J. Tucker
Kyle Kuzma
Kevin Love
LaMarcus Aldridge
Anthony Davis
Brook Lopez
Andre Drummond

and another tough-minded veteran, Denver's Paul Millsap, is also a possibility, league sources told ESPN.
probably a few more to come to get it to 18 or so. didn't see Kemba Walker in this ESPN report but it was mentioned in others a couple days ago. Some rumblings of ZIon as well - which could bode well for us getting RJ.

[frumble]

Some rumblings of ZIon as well - which could bode well for us getting RJ.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing re the Zion rumors.

Anyone seeing anything on twitter (or anywhere else) re participation of any of our players?

[mojo13]

Some rumblings of ZIon as well - which could bode well for us getting RJ.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing re the Zion rumors.

Anyone seeing anything on twitter (or anywhere else) re participation of any of our players?

Nope nothing.
I don’t ever expect much advanced notice from Canada Basketball though. Not sure why it would be any different this summer.
Most I can tell you is Olynyk, TT and CoJo are being used in the marketing material so far. Precedent says that indicates they will be playing.

We have to be mindful that there are a number of free agents and they might not fully commit until they get their contacts settled.
Khem Birch is a RFA, Trey Lyles too.
CoJo is a full FA and Powell could be a RFA if he doesn’t opt in. Not quite sure about Boucher, but the others (besides Barrett) seemed to be under contract.
Per the Europe guys (matters much less) - Ejim I think is a FA and I think Thomas Scrubb is too. Not too sure of the others - besides Pangos who is going into the 2nd of a two year deal.