With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2

[Dalek]

I've been really happy with Scottie's pre-season. There will be times that there's a miss, but I must say I really now admire that Masai has the courage and confidence to ignore consensus and put his neck out. I tend to feel like Raps really liked Kawhi in his draft year, and Masai would have had the courage to take him, at 5 despite what the ranks were saying. And it would have been overall the right call, at the end of the day. They also hit on guys no one really see's. Like take Siakam we had a 9th pick and a 27th. we had guys we brought in to look at for 9 still on the board when they took Pascal at 27. They know something there that people were missing, and I bet they knew Pascal all along that Pascal was the real prize - in that case, they recognized the disparity in how they valued Pascal vs the field and were able to navigate it. It's an approach that will get you a few Bruno's but it's better than just following mock and on-line consensus. Anyone could do that. We have a front office that can see value on their own and the courage to act on it. Most teams don't.

I think they draft on what is familiar to them - player archetypes.

If you look at guys like Barnes, Banton, Bonga you see roughly a similar pattern of players this year. To me it is banking on developing these guys like we have with Siakam and OG. All these guys came in as high energy defenders who play within themselves and are extremely coachable. What I don't like was the Banton pick. He likely was going to not even be drafted given how the draft went down - giving him a guaranteed deal is an even bigger headscratcher.

For guards we aim for the Kyle/FVV steady player who can run the offense, make shots and add some event creation. Right now we only have Flynn in the pipe-line and he is still a bit up and down in his play but maybe in year two he makes big strides if Dragic doesn't steal his minutes which is a real concern.

For combo-guards we aim for the Norman Powell archetype. Guys who can create a bit and are primarily scorers who can provide some on-ball defense. Gary Trent Jr., Jalen Harris (when he is allowed back), David Johnson all fit that mold but may take some time to learn how to defend. Norm came in as a better defender, but he did take a bit of time to develop. Trent is a far more polished offensive player at the same age but his contract is not good value and we got a short deal.

[DaFroMan]

You can't teach the feel for the game scottie has. He gets the rock and there's a poise about him well beyond his years. He sees plays develope and makes the right plays more than not. Fairly high IQ for a young guy.

Sure he was too aggressive on the double at times and lost his guy for some 3's in some games and forced some shots here and there, but overall he made winning plays the majority of the time he was on the court and he was noticeable out there. I assumed from people talking about him from college he may just float around and not be which was not the case. He had his imprint on games.

Hes raw offensively but he's not hopeless there. Some excellent floaters ...mid range pullups without hesitation and some fall away jays that were money. Also his presence is that of a star and a tripple double threat if given the minutes. Also he's a physical specimen...if he works hard enough I don't see why he can't be a great player. My spidey senses are tingling on this one boyz.

[alpngso]

shot 8 3s during the preseason but didnt make a single 3s.

dont care if he shoots below 20% from 3, i’d like to see him attempt at least 200 3s this seasons

[Madhouse]

Raptors rookie Scottie Barnes has some Ben Simmons to his game—he’s not in love with scoring, and he’s not a great shooter. But he has a trick from Magic Johnson’s playbook, a reliable way to get a bucket against a set defense

Scottie Barnes has a playoff-ready way to get a bucket

You won’t find it on any highlight package (I know—I scoured them all), but in the second quarter of their game in Boston Saturday night, Raptors rookie Scottie Barnes made a play with playoff implications.

He’s been one of the most impressive rookies to date, somehow leading Toronto in assists (at 5.6 a game, 13th in the NBA, just behind Ja Morant and Giannis Antetokounmpo) from a position—the dunk spot—where that’s unthinkable. On defense, that’s him hounding Shake Milton full court, chasing Bradley Beal around ball screens, defending Jayson Tatum in space and getting posted up by Al Horford. These are assignments where rookies fail as a rite of passage. Despite those impossible assignments, tangling with elite players doing elite things, Barnes’ defensive rating is better than veteran teammates OG Anunoby and Gary Trent Jr. He’s blocked six shots in five games, including a step-back 3 by long-armed 6-8 scoring machine Tatum. And he does it all with a Magic Johnson-level of unbridled joy which I believe absolutely makes his team better. My bet: Scottie Barnes will be a superstar.

But he can’t really shoot, and isn’t all that interested in scoring. Anyone who has ever heard the name “Ben Simmons” knows to worry about that (in fact I told a veteran NBA agent that Barnes will, at least, be a more fun version of Simmons one day). The first problem remains, as he has missed all eight 3-point attempts (though his 71 percent from the line is an improvement from college and a good sign). But there’s no doubt he is thinking “score” more than what we saw in his only year at Florida State. We know a lot of ways he won’t get a lot of baskets this season: Beating his defender off the dribble in isolation, or with shots from the perimeter. That leaves transition baskets, rim-runs as a screen and roller or in the dunk spot, and … one other promising approach:


By using his size and playing bully-ball in the second box (the half of the paint below the free-throw line), or just outside of it. What we see here against Al Horford is beautiful for Raptors fans. What he did against Boston in that second quarter was even prettier. Isolated against Tatum, Barnes maneuvered into the paint using his handle and body to get to a slightly fading push-shot jumper that he made from about 12 feet in the middle of the paint. It looked perfect. And repeatable. It also looked like the kind of basket Magic Johnson used to make. Neither man is a textbook-perfect jump-shooter but both are super long 6-8 ball handlers with a knack for making buckets when they have to. It’s basketball’s equivalent of getting on base, and the precise kind of manufactured points the Raptors will need to make noise in the playoffs.

https://www.truehoop.com/p/is-james-harden-still-a-free-throw

[everdiso]

Raptors rookie Scottie Barnes has some Ben Simmons to his game—he’s not in love with scoring, and he’s not a great shooter. But he has a trick from Magic Johnson’s playbook, a reliable way to get a bucket against a set defense

Scottie Barnes has a playoff-ready way to get a bucket

You won’t find it on any highlight package (I know—I scoured them all), but in the second quarter of their game in Boston Saturday night, Raptors rookie Scottie Barnes made a play with playoff implications.

He’s been one of the most impressive rookies to date, somehow leading Toronto in assists (at 5.6 a game, 13th in the NBA, just behind Ja Morant and Giannis Antetokounmpo) from a position—the dunk spot—where that’s unthinkable. On defense, that’s him hounding Shake Milton full court, chasing Bradley Beal around ball screens, defending Jayson Tatum in space and getting posted up by Al Horford. These are assignments where rookies fail as a rite of passage. Despite those impossible assignments, tangling with elite players doing elite things, Barnes’ defensive rating is better than veteran teammates OG Anunoby and Gary Trent Jr. He’s blocked six shots in five games, including a step-back 3 by long-armed 6-8 scoring machine Tatum. And he does it all with a Magic Johnson-level of unbridled joy which I believe absolutely makes his team better. My bet: Scottie Barnes will be a superstar.

But he can’t really shoot, and isn’t all that interested in scoring. Anyone who has ever heard the name “Ben Simmons” knows to worry about that (in fact I told a veteran NBA agent that Barnes will, at least, be a more fun version of Simmons one day). The first problem remains, as he has missed all eight 3-point attempts (though his 71 percent from the line is an improvement from college and a good sign). But there’s no doubt he is thinking “score” more than what we saw in his only year at Florida State. We know a lot of ways he won’t get a lot of baskets this season: Beating his defender off the dribble in isolation, or with shots from the perimeter. That leaves transition baskets, rim-runs as a screen and roller or in the dunk spot, and … one other promising approach:


By using his size and playing bully-ball in the second box (the half of the paint below the free-throw line), or just outside of it. What we see here against Al Horford is beautiful for Raptors fans. What he did against Boston in that second quarter was even prettier. Isolated against Tatum, Barnes maneuvered into the paint using his handle and body to get to a slightly fading push-shot jumper that he made from about 12 feet in the middle of the paint. It looked perfect. And repeatable. It also looked like the kind of basket Magic Johnson used to make. Neither man is a textbook-perfect jump-shooter but both are super long 6-8 ball handlers with a knack for making buckets when they have to. It’s basketball’s equivalent of getting on base, and the precise kind of manufactured points the Raptors will need to make noise in the playoffs.

https://www.truehoop.com/p/is-james-harden-still-a-free-throw

Only thing I'll keep noting every time they mention his 60% college free throw shooting......

College Month 1: 7gms, 42.3%
College Mos 2-4: 17gms, 74.7%
Summer League: 4gms, 75.0%
Preseason: 5gms, 71.4%

[Jcity08]

Scottie isnt afraid to miss a 3 point shot, which is encouraging to me. Doesnt have to be the best 3 point shooter, just have it in his pocket to keep defenses honest and help him in the halfcourt to open space for his drives if a defender bites on a fake jumper and if they dont bite but are pulled out to the 3 point line it'll help him make plays for others.

[Dalek]

Raptors rookie Scottie Barnes has some Ben Simmons to his game—he’s not in love with scoring, and he’s not a great shooter. But he has a trick from Magic Johnson’s playbook, a reliable way to get a bucket against a set defense

Scottie Barnes has a playoff-ready way to get a bucket

You won’t find it on any highlight package (I know—I scoured them all), but in the second quarter of their game in Boston Saturday night, Raptors rookie Scottie Barnes made a play with playoff implications.

He’s been one of the most impressive rookies to date, somehow leading Toronto in assists (at 5.6 a game, 13th in the NBA, just behind Ja Morant and Giannis Antetokounmpo) from a position—the dunk spot—where that’s unthinkable. On defense, that’s him hounding Shake Milton full court, chasing Bradley Beal around ball screens, defending Jayson Tatum in space and getting posted up by Al Horford. These are assignments where rookies fail as a rite of passage. Despite those impossible assignments, tangling with elite players doing elite things, Barnes’ defensive rating is better than veteran teammates OG Anunoby and Gary Trent Jr. He’s blocked six shots in five games, including a step-back 3 by long-armed 6-8 scoring machine Tatum. And he does it all with a Magic Johnson-level of unbridled joy which I believe absolutely makes his team better. My bet: Scottie Barnes will be a superstar.

But he can’t really shoot, and isn’t all that interested in scoring. Anyone who has ever heard the name “Ben Simmons” knows to worry about that (in fact I told a veteran NBA agent that Barnes will, at least, be a more fun version of Simmons one day). The first problem remains, as he has missed all eight 3-point attempts (though his 71 percent from the line is an improvement from college and a good sign). But there’s no doubt he is thinking “score” more than what we saw in his only year at Florida State. We know a lot of ways he won’t get a lot of baskets this season: Beating his defender off the dribble in isolation, or with shots from the perimeter. That leaves transition baskets, rim-runs as a screen and roller or in the dunk spot, and … one other promising approach:


By using his size and playing bully-ball in the second box (the half of the paint below the free-throw line), or just outside of it. What we see here against Al Horford is beautiful for Raptors fans. What he did against Boston in that second quarter was even prettier. Isolated against Tatum, Barnes maneuvered into the paint using his handle and body to get to a slightly fading push-shot jumper that he made from about 12 feet in the middle of the paint. It looked perfect. And repeatable. It also looked like the kind of basket Magic Johnson used to make. Neither man is a textbook-perfect jump-shooter but both are super long 6-8 ball handlers with a knack for making buckets when they have to. It’s basketball’s equivalent of getting on base, and the precise kind of manufactured points the Raptors will need to make noise in the playoffs.

https://www.truehoop.com/p/is-james-harden-still-a-free-throw

The Truehoop guy is big friends with David Thorpe who absolutely raves about Scottie Barnes. The Truehoop podcast talked a lot about Barnes coming into the draft. Honestly, it is nice to have a few non-Canadian guys rave about Scottie Barnes. Saying he could be a superstar is a bold statement that few people would put in print, so that is pretty cool to think about.

I have always liked the Magic Johnson comp because Scottie has an old-school feel about his game from the high socks to high dribble and no look dishes. He himself emulates Magic Johnson because he watched film of his. Interesting to note that Magic shot under 25% from three over his first 10 years. But, he still scored at the basket and was about 20-9-9 player for a lot of his career despite being on stacked teams.

Here is Magic's first game as a Laker. His defense really stands out but also the passing and general vibe he had even with Kareem playing beside him.

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=LakersDynasty42

Still can't believe the NBA had an awesome player named World B Free at one point.

[PD28]

Watch on YouTube

Apparently Freddie wanted Dalano, had no idea

[brownbobcat]

I have always liked the Magic Johnson comp because Scottie has an old-school feel about his game from the high socks to high dribble and no look dishes. He himself emulates Magic Johnson because he watched film of his. Interesting to note that Magic shot under 25% from three over his first 10 years. But, he still scored at the basket and was about 20-9-9 player for a lot of his career despite being on stacked teams.

You really can't extrapolate anything from 3P% in that era, the game was different and they simply didn't shoot 3s. Larry Bird shot 31% from 3 through the first 5 years of his career. Magic was always a great FT shooter

[JShuttlesworth]

Watch on YouTube

Apparently Freddie wanted Dalano, had no idea

Fred Hoiberg, who was his coach.

[vulture]

https://www.nbabigboard.com/p/preseason-grades-east-free

TORONTO RAPTORS
Scottie Barnes (4)
Grade: A-
5 games: 26.3 mpg, 9.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 5.6 apg, 1.8 tpg, 1.2 spg, 1.2 bpg, 0% from 3

Dalano Banton (46)
Grade: C+
5 games: 14.4 mpg, 5.2 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 3 apg, 2.2 tpg, 0.2 spg, 0.8 bpg, 14.3% from 3

David Johnson (47)
Grade: D
3 games: 8.4 mpg, 2.3 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 1 apg, 1.3 tpg, 0.3 spg, 0 bpg, 20% from 3

Justin Champagnie (ND)
Grade: B+
5 games: 18.4 mpg, 7.4 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 1.4 apg, 1.4 tpg, 1.6 spg, 0.8 bpg, 27.3% from 3

Raptors fans must be feeling much better about Toronto passing on Jalen Suggs after Barnes posted a terrific preseason. He showed he can defend all five positions and that overall he’s ahead of where most scouts thought he’d be. Barnes led all rookies and his team in assists per game and posted an impressive (especially for a rookie) 3-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio. His 3-point jump shot is still a major work in progress, but he showed off a nice midrange jumper.

Everything I saw this preseason says that Barnes was worthy of a top-4 pick and might become the best player in this draft class.

Champagnie, who went undrafted, was the other impressive young player for the Raptors. He’s a ballhound who uses his motor and toughness all over the floor. His rebounding and defensive numbers were impressive. Like Barnes, he needs to develop a passable 3-point shot. If he does, Champagnie can potentially escape the label of undersized 4.

Banton also looks like he’s got real potential as another big point guard who’s a jump shot away from sticking in the league. We’ll be watching his development closely.

[dgr81]

ROY should come down to Scottie, Jalen Green and Cade.

Hopefully Scottie can improve on his shooting throughout the year. Sounds like he will get a lot of playing time.

[Psubs]

ROY should come down to Scottie, Jalen Green and Cade.

Hopefully Scottie can improve on his shooting throughout the year. Sounds like he will get a lot of playing time.

I'm just hoping he can improve his shooting over the next 2-3 off-seasons unlike Ben Simmons.

[HumbleRen]

ROY should come down to Scottie, Jalen Green and Cade.

Hopefully Scottie can improve on his shooting throughout the year. Sounds like he will get a lot of playing time.

He'll have to average more than 12 to be in the ROTY discussion. Pretty big ask a player on a team with GTJ, FVV, OG and Siakam

[WuTang_CMB]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[God Squad]

Spoiler:

https://www.nbabigboard.com/p/preseason-grades-east-free

TORONTO RAPTORS
Scottie Barnes (4)
Grade: A-
5 games: 26.3 mpg, 9.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 5.6 apg, 1.8 tpg, 1.2 spg, 1.2 bpg, 0% from 3

Dalano Banton (46)
Grade: C+
5 games: 14.4 mpg, 5.2 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 3 apg, 2.2 tpg, 0.2 spg, 0.8 bpg, 14.3% from 3

David Johnson (47)
Grade: D
3 games: 8.4 mpg, 2.3 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 1 apg, 1.3 tpg, 0.3 spg, 0 bpg, 20% from 3

Justin Champagnie (ND)
Grade: B+
5 games: 18.4 mpg, 7.4 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 1.4 apg, 1.4 tpg, 1.6 spg, 0.8 bpg, 27.3% from 3

Raptors fans must be feeling much better about Toronto passing on Jalen Suggs after Barnes posted a terrific preseason. He showed he can defend all five positions and that overall he’s ahead of where most scouts thought he’d be. Barnes led all rookies and his team in assists per game and posted an impressive (especially for a rookie) 3-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio. His 3-point jump shot is still a major work in progress, but he showed off a nice midrange jumper.

Everything I saw this preseason says that Barnes was worthy of a top-4 pick and might become the best player in this draft class.

Champagnie, who went undrafted, was the other impressive young player for the Raptors. He’s a ballhound who uses his motor and toughness all over the floor. His rebounding and defensive numbers were impressive. Like Barnes, he needs to develop a passable 3-point shot. If he does, Champagnie can potentially escape the label of undersized 4.

Banton also looks like he’s got real potential as another big point guard who’s a jump shot away from sticking in the league. We’ll be watching his development closely.

Read on Twitter

Pretty much what our collective eye test says as well

[God Squad]

https://www.nbabigboard.com/p/preseason-grades-east-free

TORONTO RAPTORS
Scottie Barnes (4)
Grade: A-
5 games: 26.3 mpg, 9.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 5.6 apg, 1.8 tpg, 1.2 spg, 1.2 bpg, 0% from 3

Dalano Banton (46)
Grade: C+
5 games: 14.4 mpg, 5.2 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 3 apg, 2.2 tpg, 0.2 spg, 0.8 bpg, 14.3% from 3

David Johnson (47)
Grade: D
3 games: 8.4 mpg, 2.3 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 1 apg, 1.3 tpg, 0.3 spg, 0 bpg, 20% from 3

Justin Champagnie (ND)
Grade: B+
5 games: 18.4 mpg, 7.4 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 1.4 apg, 1.4 tpg, 1.6 spg, 0.8 bpg, 27.3% from 3

Raptors fans must be feeling much better about Toronto passing on Jalen Suggs after Barnes posted a terrific preseason. He showed he can defend all five positions and that overall he’s ahead of where most scouts thought he’d be. Barnes led all rookies and his team in assists per game and posted an impressive (especially for a rookie) 3-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio. His 3-point jump shot is still a major work in progress, but he showed off a nice midrange jumper.

Everything I saw this preseason says that Barnes was worthy of a top-4 pick and might become the best player in this draft class.

Champagnie, who went undrafted, was the other impressive young player for the Raptors. He’s a ballhound who uses his motor and toughness all over the floor. His rebounding and defensive numbers were impressive. Like Barnes, he needs to develop a passable 3-point shot. If he does, Champagnie can potentially escape the label of undersized 4.

Banton also looks like he’s got real potential as another big point guard who’s a jump shot away from sticking in the league. We’ll be watching his development closely.

Any chance you can link the break down of some other prospects? I'd love to read, but not paying for a Chad Ford subscription lol.

[tms]

shot 8 3s during the preseason but didnt make a single 3s.

dont care if he shoots below 20% from 3, i’d like to see him attempt at least 200 3s this seasons

lol yes. he'll be our li'l kamikaze bomber. i'm here for it.

just for reference, 161 players jacked up 200+ threes last year. only ones below 30% were:

- Aleksei Pokusevski (28%)
- Dwayne Bacon (28.5%)
- Isaac Okoro (29%)
- Darius Bazley (29%)
- Pascal Siakam (29.7%)

last guy to do it sub-20% was... no one. Barnes would be the first. worst ever was Marcus Smart (25.3% on 241 attempts in 2015-16), closely followed by Trey Lyles (25.5%, 200, 2018-19), Antoine Walker (25.6%, 285, 1999-00) and our boy Giannis Antetokounmvpo (25.6%, 203, 2018-19). even Sir Charles did it at 28.3% on 205 in 1996-97, which is nice to see.

[WuTang_CMB]

Could Suggs be this draft classe's top 5 busts?

[ash_k]

Hopefully, Suggs doesnt become a bust and ends up like a Sexton..but with that 6'7 Wingspan he is certainly not the next Wade/Flash like some were claiming earlier