2023 NBA Draft Thread

[Rich4114]

Given the recent history of MB, Bouk and even Monk do we really think that perceived fit is going to cause the Hornets to pass on Scoot for Miller?

Also going back in history, he does remind me a lot more of Baron Davis than any other Hornet. Ironically that was the last team we had to win a playoff series and his backcourt mate was the undersized but tough David Wesley.

Break the NBA and put LaMelo and Scoot on the floor together. They can each play off ball and you don’t need to be playing PG to create for your teammates. We are in an era of positionless basketball and we need the best talent possible. The decision seems easy.

[Rays Pompadour]

Some good points here, d&k. I like your take on positional value. But what has more value to you - position or shot-making?

What it comes down to for me is, can the player get his shot? I'm absolutely convinced Henderson can get his but dubious that Miller can. Shooting, size, defense, intelligence...it all matters. But can the dude get his shot? If he can't, positional value is nearly meaningless in the grand scheme.

[cornchip]

After Devonte and Rozier then Rozier and Melo, I'm pretty over the two PG thing.

Then I got a bunch of Hawks games this year and it was pretty hard to watch. Two guys who just pretty much dominated the ball. At least LaMelo moves it around more, but he has chucker-like tendencies too.

[fatlever]

where i am, changing by the hour
55% scoot
40% miller
5% amen

[yasuhara2241]

Like both players but here's my thoughts. Miller can be a decent 2nd or most likely a fantastic 3rd option on a playoff team. He is a catch and shoot guy but doesn't have the athleticism to take guys off the dribble. I do like his length and also that he could play multiple positions. I also like the way he handled that charge and he stepped up during a tough situation and had a great game.

Scoot has the potential to be an all-star. His midrange is really good and he is going from a HS 3pt line to an NBA 3 pt line. There will be an adjustment and his percentages have improved. I also like the fact that he takes this game seriously and wants to be the best. After listening to all his interviews I am all in.

You take Scoot every time over Miller. Draft the knockdown corner shooters in the later rounds. Can you imagine Ball/Scoot creating and a shooter in the corner? Can you imagine the pace of play with Ball/Scoot/Miles? Defense might be a little tough but our defense got worlds better when Mark started playing and that was with Terry in the lineup. Draft Scoop 100% of the time.

[bravor]

At this point, the potential return that could yield each player has to be taken into account. It's gonna be tough to convince me that Henderson would not bring back much more than Miller (if he had a great tournament, that would have been another story, i have been advocating for a young wing for years here).
A bunch of franchises, especially in the East, are looking for their lead guard. Not saying good wings grow on tree, but Miller is nowhere close some Kawhi or alike level. Even the PG comparison seems a bit optimistic as PG was a good defender when he was drafted and i dont see this in what i have seen from Miller
At this point, i'd rather see the Hornets draft and develop their Mykal Bridges (and as it's been said previously or even in the beginning of this season, there are some decent real wings that could fill the bill of an impactful 3D), knowing scoring is not the problem (and never has been since the Ball draft).

Anyway, we don't even know if Hornets FO are high on both and don't have a Patrick Williams 2.0 in mind. Knowing there are 4 more picks to figure out and the offseason (with some expiring..). Even if i dont expect a reset, it's pretty guaranteed that the roster will have a massive shake up.

[amcoolio]

After Devonte and Rozier then Rozier and Melo, I'm pretty over the two PG thing.

Then I got a bunch of Hawks games this year and it was pretty hard to watch. Two guys who just pretty much dominated the ball. At least LaMelo moves it around more, but he has chucker-like tendencies too.

Neither Scoot or LaMelo pound the ball like Kemba, Graham, Terry, and Trae though

Scoot is arguably better at running the PnR than LaMelo, LaMelo just has insane court vision and is a creative passer. Scoot is the type of player that theoretically should get 9-12 assists per game in his prime. Like a 24/12/5 player

[KingCat]

BPA with the 2nd pick, best shooter with 27th pick. Feels like common sense.

[JMAC3]

BPA with the 2nd pick, best shooter with 27th pick. Feels like common sense.

BPA is a debate though.

Miller has been 2nd on more than half of draft boards for the past few months. That had nothing to do with fit with Hornets.

[KingCat]

Just not seeing how a guy with a awkward low dip jump shot, mid athletics, and questionable handles is considered right up there with a PG that many are calling generational.

I'm doing my best to fall for Miller as he is likely our guy, but damn this is tough.

[JMAC3]

Just not seeing how a guy with a awkward low dip jump shot, mid athletics, and questionable handles is considered right up there with a PG that many are calling generational.

I'm doing my best to fall for Miller as he is likely our guy, but damn this is tough.

Do you think Paul George, Kawhi Leonard and Jimmy Butler were just elite handles and playmakers in college but somehow slid outside the top 10? You are acting like Miller at 20 years old can't improve those things even though we see it all the time. Jaylen Brown just learned how to dribble this year basically.

[KingCat]

Just not seeing how a guy with a awkward low dip jump shot, mid athletics, and questionable handles is considered right up there with a PG that many are calling generational.

I'm doing my best to fall for Miller as he is likely our guy, but damn this is tough.

Do you think Paul George, Kawhi Leonard and Jimmy Butler were just elite handles and playmakers in college but somehow slid outside the top 10? You are acting like Miller at 20 years old can't improve those things even though we see it all the time. Jaylen Brown just learned how to dribble this year basically.

Ball handling is a hard as hell skill to pick up in the NBA. The odds of Miller being a legit handler is as high as Scoot turning into a 40% shooter atm.

[yosemiteben]

Just not seeing how a guy with a awkward low dip jump shot, mid athletics, and questionable handles is considered right up there with a PG that many are calling generational.

I'm doing my best to fall for Miller as he is likely our guy, but damn this is tough.

Do you think Paul George, Kawhi Leonard and Jimmy Butler were just elite handles and playmakers in college but somehow slid outside the top 10?

Is that your argument from why we should take Miller at 2? Odd to point to other guys that didn't have these skills being drafted lower as evidence that we should draft Miller higher.

Would guess the stockpile of guys that didn't have these skills and never got them is going to be a lot higher.

[SWedd523]

Same could be said for non shooters who did/didn't become shooters.

[amcoolio]

I'm warming up to Miller, he is more crafty with the ball and "in the right place at the right time" than PJ Washington. Great defensive rebounder. Still worried about his lack of athleticism.

[CuseMayne]

I'm on team Scoot. Remember how ugly it was when Melo was hurt? Rozier started at PG and we just had zero playmaking. If we get Scoot one of them can be on the floor at all times. Scoot and Melo complement each other's strengths very well. Let's grab Scoot and find shooting elsewhere.

[yosemiteben]

Same could be said for non shooters who did/didn't become shooters.

Definitely could. I just don't think saying "these three guys also didn't have that skill and were drafted outside the top 10" is the best argument for drafting someone without that skill at 2.

[SWedd523]

don't disagree, I think the point was just that it does happen so if we're going to hand wave Scoot's poor shooting "because other guys improved" then transitively we should be able to make a similar argument for Miller

[JMAC3]

Same could be said for non shooters who did/didn't become shooters.

Definitely could. I just don't think saying "these three guys also didn't have that skill and were drafted outside the top 10" is the best argument for drafting someone without that skill at 2.

More so pointing out that most 19 and 20 year old 6'8'' players don't have the ball on a string nor are they orchestrating an offense as college freshman.

Paul George averaged 1.9 apg in college as a freshman
Tatum averaged 2.1
Ingram averaged 2
Kawhi averaged 2 as a freshman

Miller averaged 2.1

Ingram averaged nearly 6 this year, PG over 5 the last 3 years, Tatum on his way to being over 5, Kawhi can play make....

I see no reason Miller can not be on that same trend.

[Braggins]

3pt shooting tends to be quite a bit easier to make substantial improvements on than ball handling fwiw.

I think Miller's lack of first step and strength are bigger issues limiting his self creation than his handle. He might have to rely on attacking hard closeouts for most of his driving game. Developing some of Reggie Miller's isolation tricks could be useful. Reggie was quicker/faster, but some of his setups and shot types (thinking specifically his weird running half floater half jumper thing) could probably work for Miller (he should generally be facing slower defenders). He might need to lean more into adding strength and being a mid post guy who shoots over people.

I honestly think both Miller and Scoot are high floor prospects that fit the Hornets exceptionally well and are very unlikely to not be good picks. Scoots shooting is a definite weakness and area he needs to improve to hit his ceiling, but its really the only significant issue and its the easiest skill to make major improvements with, especially if you have a solid base to work with (32.4% from NBA distance @ 19 + 75% free throw + at least solid mechanics + great work ethic). People acting like he is likely to be a nonshooter are blowing things out of proportion imo.

DSJ getting to the point hes at now is even a weird anomaly that required his shot somehow getting worse every season to the point that its now completely broken. There are some guys that when they make the jump to the league it exposes flaws in their jumper that weren't apparent at lower levels and shorter distances and they spiral like that. Scoot has been shooting from the NBA line for two years and playing against borderline NBA level players (better than NCAA/OTE) and his shot is trending in the right direction, so I don't think there is much reason to be overly concerned with his shot at this point. Others have also pointed out that he doesn't need to be great at 3pt shooting with his all around tools and skill. De'Aaron Fox shot the same exact 32.4% from the 3pt line that Scoot did this season on about 2 attempts more per 75 possessions.

The Kings got the 3rd seed and took the full strength Warriors to 7 games playing through a 6'3" low 30% 3pt shooting PG and a 6'9" center with t-rex arms that can't shoot or defend. They couldn't really defend anyone in general, but pulled off that level of success because their offense was unstoppable. It would be nice to have a team that can play perfectly balanced and always has 5 good switchable defenders on the floor at all times, but the reality is that almost no one can actually do that and its rare to be able to pull off a perfect setup like that. Almost everyone has to deal with mismatches and has weaknesses. Most teams, especially bottom of the barrel franchises like the Hornets, kind of have to lean into the hand they are dealt and try to add as much talent as possible and make concessions elsewhere with roster building to make it work. I actually think if they take Scoot they will have more offensive firepower than the Kings and better defensive personnel.

I don't think the Hornets are in a position to get overly enamored with Millers plug and play nature. I think he needs more development and more to go right for him to be a major needle mover than Scoot does and Scoot is a bit more than a year younger. Scoot can be really good without making major improvements to his shooting and if he ever becomes a good shooter (not great, but simply good), which is not that hard to imagine, he is going to be an incredible offensive weapon. Miller's physical tools simply are not on the level of guys like Kawhi and PG as prospects and his profile doesn't scream super high impact defender. I think it will be harder for him to develop an entire self creation repertoire than it will be for Scoot to get his shooting to an adequate level.

I don't think its unreasonable to make a case for Miller as BPA, but my assessment is that its Scoot and he is their best chance to add an elite talent and take the franchise to the next level. The Hornets already want to play a high pace system and pairing two transition freaks who are elite pick and roll operators (LaMelo/Scoot) with elite pick and roll threats (Mark/Bridges) and versatile spacing (PJ/Hayward) is an extremely spicy recipe.

Miller is technically a better fit because he is a perfect fit for every team/system, but I think Hornets are also set up really well to maximize a Scoot/LaMelo pairing. The only real concession they need to make to accommodate him is not stacking too many small guards (trade Rozier, who cares) and making sure they have enough shooting/defense in their flex spots (basically have to do this with any setup).

starting 5: Scoot ~ LaMelo ~ Bridges ~ PJ ~ Mark
core bench: DSJ/Rozier ~ Martin ~ Hayward ~ Richards
spot mins: McGowens ~ Thor ~ Kai

Plus they have like four more picks to add shooting/defense/depth.