antique0o0 wrote:Heat are playing much faster. Their defense is still as good. I think they'll surprise people. Wished Tyler come to Nets... Lin always does well against Thomas. Glad Nets plays Celtics four times.
Lin always plays really well statistically against the Celitcs IN BOSTON as the road team and he seems to go into extra turbo gear against them (though it could just be that Boston isn't as fast and quick as people think - they have slow bigs and small starting guards). Its been that way for years. Maybe because he has friends in the stands, or maybe he hates the Boston front office for lying to him in the past about being interested in him.
Lin hasn't had a bad game in Boston for years now. Perhaps Monday will be different, and it's only pre-season, but I anticipate a better scoring game from Lin on Monday. In Boston, he likes to punish them and he usually racks up good fantasy stats.
Yes the Heat are faster and there is little drop off with the bench because of Tyler. I really wanted Tyler to go to the Nets to spell Lin and continue the style of play Lin plays at. It would have been so great. Also Dragic is no longer Wade's caddie. Dragic is now unleashed and he'll look pretty good again and have a good season.
Can you imagine Tyler Johnson as backup PG instead of Vasquez?
If I was Marks or Coach Atkinson, I'd almost want to cry.
Crabbe was whatever. Sure a big improvement as well, but the Nets can handle his loss this season. But Tyler would have added a handful of wins with his addition alone.
antique0o0 wrote:Heat are playing much faster. Their defense is still as good. I think they'll surprise people. Wished Tyler come to Nets... Lin always does well against Thomas. Glad Nets plays Celtics four times.
not gonna surprise me cuz I know Whiteside is gonna dominate it...
The problem with Whiteside is that he isn't quick enough mobility wise. That is why the Heat can win a round or 2 of the playoffs but they have no shot of winning a title. So they aren't contenders to win a title but they can do damage in the playoffs till they face the Cavs. And they'll be better than last year in my opinion because they got a lot faster, quicker, more ball movement, and didn't lose athleticism anywhere now that Wade is gone.
Whiteside is too slow against the teams like the Warriors or the Cavs when they put Lebron at the 4 and go small with Love or Tristan at the 5. He becomes a liability.
I use a very simple test when I look at teams & it's been pretty reliable overall for many years now. I figure out who the best 2-3 teams are. It's been the Spurs, Cavs, Warriors for the last few years. This year though it's strange, because KD is better on paper but the Warriors actually might not be as good a team to win a title anymore. We won't know till we see it. The Spurs too, are they better or the same? I think they'll be about the same.
If you watch enough games you can get a feel if your team can beat the Warriors, Spurs, or Cavs in a playoff series. And if you think your team can compete against those 3 or have a shot, you can predict how well they'll do in general. Certain teams you just know they can't do it even if they can kill all the other NBA teams. A team like Portland, you know they can't beat those 3 in a playoff series. A team like Philly, good luck.
What about the Nets? Believe it or not, in my opinion the Nets match up very well with those 3 teams.
Warriors: If you play Lin Bojan Booker RHJ, Brook, you'll be competitive with the Warriors. Lin and Curry even out. Bogan Klay even out. Booker Draymont even out. KD > RHJ but RHJ can try his best to do something. Brook > Zaza you hope. And you have to hope Brook can guard Draymont or Anthony Bennett finally gets his crap together to step in when the Warriors go small and that's a problem question.
Cavs: Lin actually can be more productive to help win a game than Irving (most of you who dont see it won't see it). Bojan evens out JR and I think Bojan is more dependable and efficient. Love v Scola or Booker. RHJ/Booker < Lebron. Brook > Tristan overall by a little. Again, it's clear the Cavs are the better team but the point is the Nets won't necessarily get trashed and can compete. If a Lin led Hornets squad can beat the Cavs, so too can this Net team. I think the Cavs will cream the Nets the first 2 times they play and the final 2 will be more competitive. If the Nets compete off the bat, they are going to be even better than I could hope for.
Spurs: Lin>TD. Bojan>Danny Green (to me). RHJ<Kawai Lenoard. Booker < Lamarcus. brook about even with Pau or better on some nights. They'll be able to hang though the Spurs forwards will give the Nets fits. You have to hope Bojan and Lin at the guards and Brook at center can offset it and I think they can.
My goal in looking at these comparisons is to objectively ask, "Can they compete in a series?" Can they keep games close enough that they can get lucky and win a few?
If you think your team can compete with the top 3 NBA contenders in the playoffs, your team generally will do well itself. I've used that simple test for years and it seldom fails me. The key is to make objective projections.
Based on my simple test, I dont see how the Celtics can hang with any of those 3. Midget backcourt and slow front court. No way. They're toast. ATL? They got worse with Dwight Howard. If the Nets, in my subjective test, will do better against the top3 than my projections for ATL and Boston? This bodes well for the Nets.
Based on that, I predict the Nets will make the playoffs assuming guys like Foye and Vasquez and CMC and Whitehead aren't playing 24 minutes a night off the bat for development reasons. The other problem is the Nets bench has glaring holes and starters can't go 48 minutes a night.
NyCeEvO wrote:Brook should get 19-21ppg. Bogs should get 12-15. Skil should get 12-15. Harris can probably get 9-11. Scola will probably get 8-10. RHJ will scrap his way to 8-11. Foye (Whitehead, whoever plays that 15mpg 2 spot) will get 8-11. Vazquez (if healthy) should get about 10.
If I take the lowest number for each of those players that brings me to 86.
Unless this offense goes bananas, there's no way we're averaging 106ppg. I expect to Lin to comfortably sit at the 15-17ppg range. This would put the Nets at 101-103ppg, which puts us anywhere between 10th and 20th for team PPG based on last year's averages.
i think this is really off. i mean... you basically have 9 guys scoring double figures. when was the last time a team even had 5 or 6 guys do that?
and certainly dont see foye or whitehad scoring double figures in just 15 minutes. thats like 26 points per36. i think those guys are all capable of those totals in a 28+ minute role. but your not gonna have 9 guy all play that much. i think its much more likely to see:
thats your starters. with a high end of 65 and a low end of 53
vazques 4-8 Bogs 13-15 Skil 5-8 Scola 5-7 Hamilton 4-6
thats your bench. with a high end of 44 and a low end of 31
overall a high end of 109 and a low end of 84. a median of 96.5
i think 96-98 points sounds about right. some nights will be inthat 108-110 range,
thats with a 10 man rotation. is skil capable of dropping 20 points? sure and he will some nights. others he will go scoreless or just have 2 or 4 points. same with everyone on the bench not named bogs.
vazques never hit 10 ppg in toronto which is some of his best ball and a big backup role. cant see him getting that here. skil or harris will have some big games. both wont get the minutes and both wont consistently get the fga to average 10 a game unless they play well enough to become starters. foye wont score much. he is a guy there for his grit and d and hopefully hit open shots. he isnt scoring in double figure. hamilton is basically 3 and d. some games 6 or 9 points some goose eggs or 3-4 points.
i think those numbers in a vaccuum assuming each player got 25-28 minutes is plausible. i dont think once you fit those names into a 9 or 10 man rotation and realize the minutes they get, it wont be as high as even your low end numbers.
Lin is going to be our main ball handler, highest usage player, and by far our most agressive player who touches the ball that often. i can see less then 15-17 FGA. right now he is at 15.4 FGA per36 in preseason. 26.7 points per36
now super small sample in irrelevant basketbal but all we have to go on right now. i think on volme/FGA alont he will easily hit 18-20
I agree 100% with these projections.
If Lin averages 20/7 on good efficiency and defense, he's basically a top 10-15 PG and will put to bed the question of whether he's a "starting caliber" PG. With these numbers, he'll likely be an All-star as well.
Tracymcgoaty wrote:So Lin will be in the HOF deservedly but Yao doesnt? Yao had it all man you serious? much better player than Lin is right now.
Through today, of course Lin doesn't deserve any mention of HOF. He's been a backup scrub all these years who coaches and players say is a backup scrub. This includes his old coaches like Kevin Mchale and Byron Scott saying these things.
I'm just projecting he could be a HOF candidate by the end of his career. I am projecting the next 5-7 years will be big seasons in Brooklyn.
I believe Lin's career will parallel Nash's like when Nash went to the Suns and blew up. I anticipate that for Lin starting this season.
Of course if it doesn't go that way and Lin isn't pushing for MVP talk for a couple seasons, there's no way he'll be in the HOF. I'm predicting though Lin will have 1 or 2 years where there will be that type of talk.
I suspect in yr 3 of Lin's time in Brooklyn 2 seasons from now, they will be a top 5 NBA team and people will start talking about Lin that way.
If not, of course, there's no way Lin will sniff the hall.
Why do you think Lin will progress into becoming an MVP candidate over the likes of Steph Curry, LeBron, KD, CP3, or Russell Westbrook? Those players are phenoms and superstars.
Even if you believe that D'Antoni was the main reason why Nash was able to produce such gaudy numbers, we don't have a D'Antoni here.
I simply believe Lin is that good when properly utilized to his strengths. I did not know if Lin was for real of not till I watched from Houston through today. After the first season in Houston, I realized he was for real and saw Mchale substitute Lin out on a consistent basis anytime that Lin started to play well. It was sadly very obvious and if I was Lin's parent, I would have wanted to strangle Mchale. Now, Lin is not a perfect player and you have to play away from some weaknesses on both ends, but all guards have some weaknesses, not just Lin.
You had to watch him very closely from Houston through today and watch all the games and see through the agendas from coaches and teammates and see the production and process all that objectively.
The crazy talk I've posted the last few days can only be proven right or wrong when the season ends or when the Nets are numerically eliminated from the playoffs.
The HOF thing is probably a reach. It's possible though. However, a handful of all star games should be coming over the next 5 years and not just because Asia will be voting him in.
Also, the MVP is not based on being the best talent. Kobe and others were in the league when Nash won MVP. It's about who the media wants to vote in as MVP. Usually that MVP has to have a feel good story about it. Lin's play is going to be stellar and I believe the team will be very good in 2-3 years so there may be some MVP talk in my opinion. He needs better players around him first, but non ball dominant better players like Klay Thompson or Draymond Green or Demarr Caroll and quick mobile bigs. Lin dies when paired with traditional NBA stars who dominate the rock because Lin wants to dominate the rock. Some say well why can Lebron and Wade share the ball? I'm sure Lin could easily play with Curry because they get along. Lin's just got stuck with stiffs like Melo Harden and Kobe. Give him the right stars who he can click with on a personal level, Lin can get along as well.
GoodDayLa wrote: Through today, of course Lin doesn't deserve any mention of HOF. He's been a backup scrub all these years who coaches and players say is a backup scrub. This includes his old coaches like Kevin Mchale and Byron Scott saying these things.
I'm just projecting he could be a HOF candidate by the end of his career. I am projecting the next 5-7 years will be big seasons in Brooklyn.
I believe Lin's career will parallel Nash's like when Nash went to the Suns and blew up. I anticipate that for Lin starting this season.
Of course if it doesn't go that way and Lin isn't pushing for MVP talk for a couple seasons, there's no way he'll be in the HOF. I'm predicting though Lin will have 1 or 2 years where there will be that type of talk.
I suspect in yr 3 of Lin's time in Brooklyn 2 seasons from now, they will be a top 5 NBA team and people will start talking about Lin that way.
If not, of course, there's no way Lin will sniff the hall.
Why do you think Lin will progress into becoming an MVP candidate over the likes of Steph Curry, LeBron, KD, CP3, or Russell Westbrook? Those players are phenoms and superstars.
Even if you believe that D'Antoni was the main reason why Nash was able to produce such gaudy numbers, we don't have a D'Antoni here.
I simply believe Lin is that good when properly utilized to his strengths. I did not know if Lin was for real of not till I watched from Houston through today. After the first season in Houston, I realized he was for real and saw Mchale substitute Lin out on a consistent basis anytime that Lin started to play well. It was sadly very obvious and if I was Lin's parent, I would have wanted to strangle Mchale. Now, Lin is not a perfect player and you have to play away from some weaknesses on both ends, but all guards have some weaknesses, not just Lin.
You had to watch him very closely from Houston through today and watch all the games and see through the agendas from coaches and teammates and see the production and process all that objectively.
The crazy talk I've posted the last few days can only be proven right or wrong when the season ends or when the Nets are numerically eliminated from the playoffs.
The HOF thing is probably a reach. It's possible though. However, a handful of all star games should be coming over the next 5 years and not just because Asia will be voting him in.
Also, the MVP is not based on being the best talent. Kobe and others were in the league when Nash won MVP. It's about who the media wants to vote in as MVP. Usually that MVP has to have a feel good story about it. Lin's play is going to be stellar and I believe the team will be very good in 2-3 years so there may be some MVP talk in my opinion. He needs better players around him first, but non ball dominant better players like Klay Thompson or Draymond Green or Demarr Caroll and quick mobile bigs. Lin dies when paired with traditional NBA stars who dominate the rock because Lin wants to dominate the rock. Some say well why can Lebron and Wade share the ball? I'm sure Lin could easily play with Curry because they get along. Lin's just got stuck with stiffs like Melo Harden and Kobe. Give him the right stars who he can click with on a personal level, Lin can get along as well.
if you think lin is an mvp candidate/HoF long shot then you are either:
a) a moron b) a troll c) both
in any instance you need to GTFO this board. your giving lin fans a bad name, as most have done a good job lately
NyCeEvO wrote:Why do you think Lin will progress into becoming an MVP candidate over the likes of Steph Curry, LeBron, KD, CP3, or Russell Westbrook? Those players are phenoms and superstars.
Even if you believe that D'Antoni was the main reason why Nash was able to produce such gaudy numbers, we don't have a D'Antoni here.
I simply believe Lin is that good when properly utilized to his strengths. I did not know if Lin was for real of not till I watched from Houston through today. After the first season in Houston, I realized he was for real and saw Mchale substitute Lin out on a consistent basis anytime that Lin started to play well. It was sadly very obvious and if I was Lin's parent, I would have wanted to strangle Mchale. Now, Lin is not a perfect player and you have to play away from some weaknesses on both ends, but all guards have some weaknesses, not just Lin.
You had to watch him very closely from Houston through today and watch all the games and see through the agendas from coaches and teammates and see the production and process all that objectively.
The crazy talk I've posted the last few days can only be proven right or wrong when the season ends or when the Nets are numerically eliminated from the playoffs.
The HOF thing is probably a reach. It's possible though. However, a handful of all star games should be coming over the next 5 years and not just because Asia will be voting him in.
Also, the MVP is not based on being the best talent. Kobe and others were in the league when Nash won MVP. It's about who the media wants to vote in as MVP. Usually that MVP has to have a feel good story about it. Lin's play is going to be stellar and I believe the team will be very good in 2-3 years so there may be some MVP talk in my opinion. He needs better players around him first, but non ball dominant better players like Klay Thompson or Draymond Green or Demarr Caroll and quick mobile bigs. Lin dies when paired with traditional NBA stars who dominate the rock because Lin wants to dominate the rock. Some say well why can Lebron and Wade share the ball? I'm sure Lin could easily play with Curry because they get along. Lin's just got stuck with stiffs like Melo Harden and Kobe. Give him the right stars who he can click with on a personal level, Lin can get along as well.
if you think lin is an mvp candidate/HoF long shot then you are either:
a) a moron b) a troll c) both
in any instance you need to GTFO this board. your giving lin fans a bad name, as most have done a good job lately
LOL.
You've said the Nets have no shot at the playoffs. I've said they'll make it at the end of the season. Let's wait and see.
GoodDayLa wrote: I simply believe Lin is that good when properly utilized to his strengths. I did not know if Lin was for real of not till I watched from Houston through today. After the first season in Houston, I realized he was for real and saw Mchale substitute Lin out on a consistent basis anytime that Lin started to play well. It was sadly very obvious and if I was Lin's parent, I would have wanted to strangle Mchale. Now, Lin is not a perfect player and you have to play away from some weaknesses on both ends, but all guards have some weaknesses, not just Lin.
You had to watch him very closely from Houston through today and watch all the games and see through the agendas from coaches and teammates and see the production and process all that objectively.
The crazy talk I've posted the last few days can only be proven right or wrong when the season ends or when the Nets are numerically eliminated from the playoffs.
The HOF thing is probably a reach. It's possible though. However, a handful of all star games should be coming over the next 5 years and not just because Asia will be voting him in.
Also, the MVP is not based on being the best talent. Kobe and others were in the league when Nash won MVP. It's about who the media wants to vote in as MVP. Usually that MVP has to have a feel good story about it. Lin's play is going to be stellar and I believe the team will be very good in 2-3 years so there may be some MVP talk in my opinion. He needs better players around him first, but non ball dominant better players like Klay Thompson or Draymond Green or Demarr Caroll and quick mobile bigs. Lin dies when paired with traditional NBA stars who dominate the rock because Lin wants to dominate the rock. Some say well why can Lebron and Wade share the ball? I'm sure Lin could easily play with Curry because they get along. Lin's just got stuck with stiffs like Melo Harden and Kobe. Give him the right stars who he can click with on a personal level, Lin can get along as well.
if you think lin is an mvp candidate/HoF long shot then you are either:
a) a moron b) a troll c) both
in any instance you need to GTFO this board. your giving lin fans a bad name, as most have done a good job lately
LOL.
You've said the Nets have no shot at the playoffs. I've said they'll make it at the end of the season. Let's wait and see.
you said a career backup is going to be in the hall of fame.
Nope. We're not having this kind of discourse here.
about to witness same shet happening, leave some friendly reminder: 1. it always take 2 palms to make the clap 2. dont get trolled then the troll wont work 3.time is precious how bout get ya ass off the chair, get out there do some real sports and have some fresh air
Tracymcgoaty wrote:So Lin will be in the HOF deservedly but Yao doesnt? Yao had it all man you serious? much better player than Lin is right now.
Through today, of course Lin doesn't deserve any mention of HOF. He's been a backup scrub all these years who coaches and players say is a backup scrub. This includes his old coaches like Kevin Mchale and Byron Scott saying these things.
I'm just projecting he could be a HOF candidate by the end of his career. I am projecting the next 5-7 years will be big seasons in Brooklyn.
I believe Lin's career will parallel Nash's like when Nash went to the Suns and blew up. I anticipate that for Lin starting this season.
Of course if it doesn't go that way and Lin isn't pushing for MVP talk for a couple seasons, there's no way he'll be in the HOF. I'm predicting though Lin will have 1 or 2 years where there will be that type of talk.
I suspect in yr 3 of Lin's time in Brooklyn 2 seasons from now, they will be a top 5 NBA team and people will start talking about Lin that way.
If not, of course, there's no way Lin will sniff the hall.
Why do you think Lin will progress into becoming an MVP candidate over the likes of Steph Curry, LeBron, KD, CP3, or Russell Westbrook? Those players are phenoms and superstars.
Even if you believe that D'Antoni was the main reason why Nash was able to produce such gaudy numbers, we don't have a D'Antoni here.
Well, thankfully he's one of few projecting such numbers and making such comparisons. I loved NyCeEvO's analysis. It was very practical and well thought out. I also think Lin doesn't have the mentality of a score leader. I actually think Lin can score with Reggie Jackson if not the other guys, I just don't think he takes that approach in his game. I think he finds that to be selfish play. He'd rather get his 15-20 and have other players score in double figures. Then he's done his job involving all players. He's changed since Linsanity. Sometimes I wish people would forget about Linsanity. Because other than the driving ability he possesses, he's a much different player now. 15-17/6-8 are the numbers I look for. I wouldn't even be surprised if it is 14.x./7 for Lin.
TinmanZBoy wrote:^ for the record, coach McHale said "we have two starting worthy PGs" when talking about the starting job between Lin and Beverley... He also said "Lin is a main guy of us, won us a lot games""Jeremy is still going to play around 30 minutes/game, close some games"... where did you see coach McHale calling out Lin a scrub?
By the way, coach McHale is a HOF player, one of the best PFs in the history of the game, played as a sixth man for a big chunk of his career...If a HOF like coach McHale and a player in Manu's caliber can come off bench and contribute, why can't Lin, why do some Lin fans and Lin take it as a slight and humiliation?
Yup, you start or you're a scrub is just not the case with basketball players. There are great six men that played, like McHale, that were difference makers in games, sometimes or mostly closed games out, and played more minutes than starters. Only a few extreme fans call Lin a "scrub". I've argued too many time with many Lin fans about the whole prestige or whatever it is they associate with starting. Lin as 6th man was a beast and one of the best. As a starter, he's maybe a middling PG but that's OK because he's part of a playing time that has very skilled PGs.
TinmanZBoy wrote:By the way, coach McHale is a HOF player, one of the best PFs in the history of the game, played as a sixth man for a big chunk of his career...If a HOF like coach McHale and a player in Manu's caliber can come off bench and contribute, why can't Lin, why do some Lin fans and Lin take it as a slight and humiliation?
What's any of that got to do with how bad of a coach McHale was/is? Bad for Lin, Howard, Harden ...etc.... McHale is not a good coach otherwise he might still BE A COACH.
McHale the HOFer will never coach in the NBA again - take that to the bank.
He's had some success, and he's not an X and Os coach. I don't think he's a great coach. But there are far worse. And I think he didn't like Lin's game and treated Lin poorly. Still, when Houston needed what Lin could give, and Lin was on, McHale played Lin big minutes and he closed games.
NyCeEvO wrote:Brook should get 19-21ppg. Bogs should get 12-15. Skil should get 12-15. Harris can probably get 9-11. Scola will probably get 8-10. RHJ will scrap his way to 8-11. Foye (Whitehead, whoever plays that 15mpg 2 spot) will get 8-11. Vazquez (if healthy) should get about 10.
If I take the lowest number for each of those players that brings me to 86.
Unless this offense goes bananas, there's no way we're averaging 106ppg. I expect to Lin to comfortably sit at the 15-17ppg range. This would put the Nets at 101-103ppg, which puts us anywhere between 10th and 20th for team PPG based on last year's averages.
i think this is really off. i mean... you basically have 9 guys scoring double figures. when was the last time a team even had 5 or 6 guys do that?
Several things...
First, I never said that I expected all of them to reach their maximums. In fact, in the case I chose to use as a relevant example, I assumed that guys would hit the minimums, I projected. I never said that I expect every person to hit their maximums. I included ranges because I can see some players be at the suggested minimums while others are at a maximum.
In short, I don't have nor expect 9 players to score double-digits. I do think 5-6 guys can.
I don't like dealing with absolute fixed numbers because it's impossible to perceive and account for all of the context that goes into a game. That's why I stick to ranges.
Second, if we go with the minimum range, there is there is one 19-21ppg scorer in Brook, one 15-17 ppg scorer in Lin, two 12-15ppg scorers in Bogs and Skil, and Vazquez if healthy could get 10ppg.
Each of these players hit these very numbers in their last season. I don't know why you see this as such as preposterous thing.
Maybe Vazquez is a stretch but even he averaged 9.8 and 9.6ppg respectively in each of the last two healthy seasons.
Third (and most importantly), you asked when is the last time 5-6 players on a team have scored in double figures. Have you even done the research to answer your own question or did you just assume that research would yield no relevant examples?
I went to the teams Atkinson and Marks have talked about emulating: Hawks and Celtics. (I haven't even looked at any other teams in the league yet.)
Spoiler:
Side note: Even though I'm positive the Spurs would yield similar results, I already know that people would say any comparison to them isn't worth it because they're an anomaly.
Interestingly enough, even during Stevens' first season as head coach which was also a bad season for the Celtics with a record of 25-47, they still 7 guys (NOT including Rondo) who averaged 10+ppg and another player who was 8.7ppg.
I only checked the last three seasons of each team since those are most relevant play-style wise as well as historically:
2015-16 Boston Celtics: 1) Isaiah Thomas - 22.2ppg 2) Avery Bradley - 15.2ppg 3) Jae Crowder - 14.2ppg 4) Evan Turner - 10.5ppg 5) Jared Sullinger-10.3ppg 6) Kelly Olynyk-10.0ppg Marcus Smart-9.1ppg
2014-15 Boston Celtics (40-42): *1a)Isaiah Thomas - 19.0ppg (Celtics gave up Thornton and acquired Isaiah in a deal) *2a) Jeff Green - 17.6ppg (Celtics traded Green for Tayshaun Prince) 3) Avery Bradley - 13.9ppg 4) Jared Sullinger - 13.3ppg 5) Brandon Bass - 10.6ppg 6) Kelly Olynyk - 10.3ppg 7) Tyler Zeller - 10.2ppg 8) Evan Turner - 9.5ppg 9) Jae Crowder - 9.5ppg *1b) Marcus Thornton - 8.9ppg *2b) Tayshaun Prince - 8.4ppg
2013-14 Boston Celtics (25-57) 1) Jeff Green - 16.9ppg 2) Avery Bradley - 14.9ppg 3) Jordan Crawford - 13.7ppg 4) Jared Sullinger - 13.3ppg 5*) Rajon Rondo - 11.7ppg (Traded to Dallas for Jae Crowder) 6) Brandon Bass - 11.1ppg 7) Jerryd Bayless - 10.1ppg 8) Kelly Olynyk - 8.7ppg
2015-16 Atlanta Hawks (48-34): Paul Millsap - 17.1ppg Jeff Teague - 15.7ppg Al Horford - 15.2ppg Kent Bazemore - 11.6ppg Dennis Schroeder - 11.0ppg Kyle Korver - 9.2ppg
2014-15 Atlanta Hawks (60-22): Paul Millsap - 16.7ppg Jeff Teague - 15.9ppg Al Horford - 15.2ppg Demarre Carroll - 12.6ppg Kyle Korver - 12.1ppg Dennis Schroeder - 10.0ppg
2013-14 Atlanta Hawks (38-44): Al Horford - 18.6ppg Paul Millsap - 17.9ppg Jeff Teague - 16.5ppg Kyle Korver - 12.0ppg Demarre Carroll - 11.1ppg Lou Williams - 10.4ppg Mike Scott - 9.6ppg
I haven't even looked at any other team yet. I could if you want to but I think the point stands that it's quite easy to find teams that do have at least 5-6 players scoring 10ppg or more.
Spoiler:
and certainly dont see foye or whitehad scoring double figures in just 15 minutes. thats like 26 points per36. i think those guys are all capable of those totals in a 28+ minute role. but your not gonna have 9 guy all play that much.
That was a mistake with Whitehead. Again, not only was the minimum of 8ppg my expected range, but in addition to that I meant to say Foye OR the totality of players who take up the volume of that teriary PG/backup SG role.
But that's neither here nor there since this wasn't a main part of my argument.
bws94 wrote:Lin as 6th man was a beast and one of the best. As a starter, he's maybe a middling PG but that's OK because he's part of a playing time that has very skilled PGs.
Is that right? We'll see if you're just as off this season as you were last season about STARTER Lin.
If you get a chance to look at Lin's pre-season stats as a STARTING PG they are some of the best in the league and All-Star numbers on a PER basis... if he carries that over then your "middling PG" comment would be again proven wrong.
"I don't like the word REBUILD... I know Kenny and everyone at some point that word has floated around... I want it to happen NOW" - JLIN
bws94 wrote:Lin as 6th man was a beast and one of the best. As a starter, he's maybe a middling PG but that's OK because he's part of a playing time that has very skilled PGs.
Is that right? We'll see if you're just as off this season as you were last season about STARTER Lin.
If you get a chance to look at Lin's pre-season stats as a STARTING PG they are some of the best in the league and All-Star numbers on a PER basis... if he carries that over then your "middling PG" comment would be again proven wrong.
See, STARTER, blah blah. I don't care if he starts or not, as long as he plays "starters minutes" so I don't put the same emphasis on starting as other has. That's just how I view it.
Talk to me about Lin playing a full season as a PG. He did in Houston, and I don't want to hear anything about Harden either. His overall numbers were middling. If Lin emerges as a top PG I won't be surprised, but he just may not ever. And that's OK, because he's still a big impact player that gives great effort on both ends of the court and is fun to watch. But don't try to prove anything to me, I'm not interested. If I'm wrong, great, I'd love to be. I'm just dealing with what is, not a small sampling of Lin's spot starts.
NyCeEvO wrote:Why do you think Lin will progress into becoming an MVP candidate over the likes of Steph Curry, LeBron, KD, CP3, or Russell Westbrook? Those players are phenoms and superstars.
Even if you believe that D'Antoni was the main reason why Nash was able to produce such gaudy numbers, we don't have a D'Antoni here.
I simply believe Lin is that good when properly utilized to his strengths. I did not know if Lin was for real of not till I watched from Houston through today. After the first season in Houston, I realized he was for real and saw Mchale substitute Lin out on a consistent basis anytime that Lin started to play well. It was sadly very obvious and if I was Lin's parent, I would have wanted to strangle Mchale. Now, Lin is not a perfect player and you have to play away from some weaknesses on both ends, but all guards have some weaknesses, not just Lin.
You had to watch him very closely from Houston through today and watch all the games and see through the agendas from coaches and teammates and see the production and process all that objectively.
The crazy talk I've posted the last few days can only be proven right or wrong when the season ends or when the Nets are numerically eliminated from the playoffs.
The HOF thing is probably a reach. It's possible though. However, a handful of all star games should be coming over the next 5 years and not just because Asia will be voting him in.
Also, the MVP is not based on being the best talent. Kobe and others were in the league when Nash won MVP. It's about who the media wants to vote in as MVP. Usually that MVP has to have a feel good story about it. Lin's play is going to be stellar and I believe the team will be very good in 2-3 years so there may be some MVP talk in my opinion. He needs better players around him first, but non ball dominant better players like Klay Thompson or Draymond Green or Demarr Caroll and quick mobile bigs. Lin dies when paired with traditional NBA stars who dominate the rock because Lin wants to dominate the rock. Some say well why can Lebron and Wade share the ball? I'm sure Lin could easily play with Curry because they get along. Lin's just got stuck with stiffs like Melo Harden and Kobe. Give him the right stars who he can click with on a personal level, Lin can get along as well.
if you think lin is an mvp candidate/HoF long shot then you are either:
a) a moron b) a troll c) both
in any instance you need to GTFO this board. your giving lin fans a bad name, as most have done a good job lately
1) This is his personal opinion. I don't agree with the MVP or HOF talk but he's not hurting anyone by stating his own personal beliefs.
If he was trying to force his own opinion on others and called others stupid/idiotic for not believing that Lin is going to achieve allstar/MVP status, that's one thing. But I asked a question in a non-confrontational fashion and he responded in the same tone. No harm, no foul.
This is a discussion board. We allow for free discussion as long as people aren't spamming their own agenda or derailing discussion. This board would be much smaller if we only allowed groupthink and didn't allow for people to state their own opinions.
2) We don't stand for insulting anyone's intelligence in public discourse just because we strongly disagree with people. You are not just insulting a screen. You are telling another person that they are lacking basic intelligence.
No single person owns this board so single person has the right to tell another person to GTFO.
If they are violating TOS or board rules, let us know. Otherwise,
3) He is not giving Lin fans a bad name. He is telling his own personal feelings about Lin. There are plenty of other Lin fans who don't feel the same way as he does and that's ok.
I certainly don't want to be judged based upon what other Nets fans say. I want to be judged for my own opinion. I don't represent the opinions of all Nets fans and neither does Paradise, MDB, VC4P, or any other poster.
So until I see a clear cut example of actual trolling or derailment of a thread, he's not doing anything wrong.
NyCeEvO wrote:Brook should get 19-21ppg. Bogs should get 12-15. Skil should get 12-15. Harris can probably get 9-11. Scola will probably get 8-10. RHJ will scrap his way to 8-11. Foye (Whitehead, whoever plays that 15mpg 2 spot) will get 8-11. Vazquez (if healthy) should get about 10.
If I take the lowest number for each of those players that brings me to 86.
Unless this offense goes bananas, there's no way we're averaging 106ppg. I expect to Lin to comfortably sit at the 15-17ppg range. This would put the Nets at 101-103ppg, which puts us anywhere between 10th and 20th for team PPG based on last year's averages.
i think this is really off. i mean... you basically have 9 guys scoring double figures. when was the last time a team even had 5 or 6 guys do that?
Several things...
First, I never said that I expected all of them to reach their maximums. In fact, in the case I chose to use as a relevant example, I assumed that guys would hit the minimums, I projected. I never said that I expect every person to hit their maximums. I included ranges because I can see some players be at the suggested minimums while others are at a maximum.
In short, I don't have nor expect 9 players to score double-digits. I do think 5-6 guys can.
I don't like dealing with absolute fixed numbers because it's impossible to perceive and account for all of the context that goes into a game. That's why I stick to ranges.
Second, if we go with the minimum range, there is there is one 19-21ppg scorer in Brook, one 15-17 ppg scorer in Lin, two 12-15ppg scorers in Bogs and Skil, and Vazquez if healthy could get 10ppg.
Each of these players hit these very numbers in their last season. I don't know why you see this as such as preposterous thing.
Maybe Vazquez is a stretch but even he averaged 9.8 and 9.6ppg respectively in each of the last two healthy seasons.
Third (and most importantly), you asked when is the last time 5-6 players on a team have scored in double figures. Have you even done the research to answer your own question or did you just assume that research would yield no relevant examples?
I went to the teams Atkinson and Marks have talked about emulating: Hawks and Celtics. (I haven't even looked at any other teams in the league yet.)
Spoiler:
Side note: Even though I'm positive the Spurs would yield similar results, I already know that people would say any comparison to them isn't worth it because they're an anomaly.
Interestingly enough, even during Stevens' first season as head coach which was also a bad season for the Celtics with a record of 25-47, they still 7 guys (NOT including Rondo) who averaged 10+ppg and another player who was 8.7ppg.
I only checked the last three seasons of each team since those are most relevant play-style wise as well as historically:
2015-16 Boston Celtics: 1) Isaiah Thomas - 22.2ppg 2) Avery Bradley - 15.2ppg 3) Jae Crowder - 14.2ppg 4) Evan Turner - 10.5ppg 5) Jared Sullinger-10.3ppg 6) Kelly Olynyk-10.0ppg Marcus Smart-9.1ppg
2014-15 Boston Celtics (40-42): *1a)Isaiah Thomas - 19.0ppg (Celtics gave up Thornton and acquired Isaiah in a deal) *2a) Jeff Green - 17.6ppg (Celtics traded Green for Tayshaun Prince) 3) Avery Bradley - 13.9ppg 4) Jared Sullinger - 13.3ppg 5) Brandon Bass - 10.6ppg 6) Kelly Olynyk - 10.3ppg 7) Tyler Zeller - 10.2ppg 8) Evan Turner - 9.5ppg 9) Jae Crowder - 9.5ppg *1b) Marcus Thornton - 8.9ppg *2b) Tayshaun Prince - 8.4ppg
2013-14 Boston Celtics (25-57) 1) Jeff Green - 16.9ppg 2) Avery Bradley - 14.9ppg 3) Jordan Crawford - 13.7ppg 4) Jared Sullinger - 13.3ppg 5*) Rajon Rondo - 11.7ppg (Traded to Dallas for Jae Crowder) 6) Brandon Bass - 11.1ppg 7) Jerryd Bayless - 10.1ppg 8) Kelly Olynyk - 8.7ppg
2015-16 Atlanta Hawks (48-34): Paul Millsap - 17.1ppg Jeff Teague - 15.7ppg Al Horford - 15.2ppg Kent Bazemore - 11.6ppg Dennis Schroeder - 11.0ppg Kyle Korver - 9.2ppg
2014-15 Atlanta Hawks (60-22): Paul Millsap - 16.7ppg Jeff Teague - 15.9ppg Al Horford - 15.2ppg Demarre Carroll - 12.6ppg Kyle Korver - 12.1ppg Dennis Schroeder - 10.0ppg
2013-14 Atlanta Hawks (38-44): Al Horford - 18.6ppg Paul Millsap - 17.9ppg Jeff Teague - 16.5ppg Kyle Korver - 12.0ppg Demarre Carroll - 11.1ppg Lou Williams - 10.4ppg Mike Scott - 9.6ppg
I haven't even looked at any other team yet. I could if you want to but I think the point stands that it's quite easy to find teams that do have at least 5-6 players scoring 10ppg or more.
Spoiler:
and certainly dont see foye or whitehad scoring double figures in just 15 minutes. thats like 26 points per36. i think those guys are all capable of those totals in a 28+ minute role. but your not gonna have 9 guy all play that much.
That was a mistake with Whitehead. Again, not only was the minimum of 8ppg my expected range, but in addition to that I meant to say Foye OR the totality of players who take up the volume of that teriary PG/backup SG role.
But that's neither here nor there since this wasn't a main part of my argument.
Are last year's Hornets one of these teams? I didn't look at the spoilers. Great post.
GoodDayLa wrote: Through today, of course Lin doesn't deserve any mention of HOF. He's been a backup scrub all these years who coaches and players say is a backup scrub. This includes his old coaches like Kevin Mchale and Byron Scott saying these things.
I'm just projecting he could be a HOF candidate by the end of his career. I am projecting the next 5-7 years will be big seasons in Brooklyn.
I believe Lin's career will parallel Nash's like when Nash went to the Suns and blew up. I anticipate that for Lin starting this season.
Of course if it doesn't go that way and Lin isn't pushing for MVP talk for a couple seasons, there's no way he'll be in the HOF. I'm predicting though Lin will have 1 or 2 years where there will be that type of talk.
I suspect in yr 3 of Lin's time in Brooklyn 2 seasons from now, they will be a top 5 NBA team and people will start talking about Lin that way.
If not, of course, there's no way Lin will sniff the hall.
Why do you think Lin will progress into becoming an MVP candidate over the likes of Steph Curry, LeBron, KD, CP3, or Russell Westbrook? Those players are phenoms and superstars.
Even if you believe that D'Antoni was the main reason why Nash was able to produce such gaudy numbers, we don't have a D'Antoni here.
I simply believe Lin is that good when properly utilized to his strengths. I did not know if Lin was for real of not till I watched from Houston through today. After the first season in Houston, I realized he was for real and saw Mchale substitute Lin out on a consistent basis anytime that Lin started to play well. It was sadly very obvious and if I was Lin's parent, I would have wanted to strangle Mchale. Now, Lin is not a perfect player and you have to play away from some weaknesses on both ends, but all guards have some weaknesses, not just Lin.
You had to watch him very closely from Houston through today and watch all the games and see through the agendas from coaches and teammates and see the production and process all that objectively.
The crazy talk I've posted the last few days can only be proven right or wrong when the season ends or when the Nets are numerically eliminated from the playoffs.
The HOF thing is probably a reach. It's possible though. However, a handful of all star games should be coming over the next 5 years and not just because Asia will be voting him in.
Also, the MVP is not based on being the best talent. Kobe and others were in the league when Nash won MVP. It's about who the media wants to vote in as MVP. Usually that MVP has to have a feel good story about it. Lin's play is going to be stellar and I believe the team will be very good in 2-3 years so there may be some MVP talk in my opinion. He needs better players around him first, but non ball dominant better players like Klay Thompson or Draymond Green or Demarr Caroll and quick mobile bigs. Lin dies when paired with traditional NBA stars who dominate the rock because Lin wants to dominate the rock. Some say well why can Lebron and Wade share the ball? I'm sure Lin could easily play with Curry because they get along. Lin's just got stuck with stiffs like Melo Harden and Kobe. Give him the right stars who he can click with on a personal level, Lin can get along as well.
How's this team going to be very good within the next 2-3 years when they don't have any draft picks? Lin is here merely to help change the culture of the team and to raise his own stock value because it's the only place that would let him play his type of game. When his contract is done here, he will likely try to latch onto a contender during the peak of his career and the Nets will be in a position to truly rebuild.
Btw, practically everything that you've been posting have been reaches....very far ones. Lin's going to end up like Steve Nash? First of all Nash is a better player, better shooter, less TO prone etc. and he had a much better supporting cast, there are no parallels between the two. Lin might become an all-star if he plays to his potential but no way will contend for MVP, especially on a team that will NOT make the playoffs.
NyCeEvO wrote:Why do you think Lin will progress into becoming an MVP candidate over the likes of Steph Curry, LeBron, KD, CP3, or Russell Westbrook? Those players are phenoms and superstars.
Even if you believe that D'Antoni was the main reason why Nash was able to produce such gaudy numbers, we don't have a D'Antoni here.
I simply believe Lin is that good when properly utilized to his strengths. I did not know if Lin was for real of not till I watched from Houston through today. After the first season in Houston, I realized he was for real and saw Mchale substitute Lin out on a consistent basis anytime that Lin started to play well. It was sadly very obvious and if I was Lin's parent, I would have wanted to strangle Mchale. Now, Lin is not a perfect player and you have to play away from some weaknesses on both ends, but all guards have some weaknesses, not just Lin.
You had to watch him very closely from Houston through today and watch all the games and see through the agendas from coaches and teammates and see the production and process all that objectively.
The crazy talk I've posted the last few days can only be proven right or wrong when the season ends or when the Nets are numerically eliminated from the playoffs.
The HOF thing is probably a reach. It's possible though. However, a handful of all star games should be coming over the next 5 years and not just because Asia will be voting him in.
Also, the MVP is not based on being the best talent. Kobe and others were in the league when Nash won MVP. It's about who the media wants to vote in as MVP. Usually that MVP has to have a feel good story about it. Lin's play is going to be stellar and I believe the team will be very good in 2-3 years so there may be some MVP talk in my opinion. He needs better players around him first, but non ball dominant better players like Klay Thompson or Draymond Green or Demarr Caroll and quick mobile bigs. Lin dies when paired with traditional NBA stars who dominate the rock because Lin wants to dominate the rock. Some say well why can Lebron and Wade share the ball? I'm sure Lin could easily play with Curry because they get along. Lin's just got stuck with stiffs like Melo Harden and Kobe. Give him the right stars who he can click with on a personal level, Lin can get along as well.
How's this team going to be very good within the next 2-3 years when they don't have any draft picks? Lin is here merely to help change the culture of the team and to raise his own stock value because it's the only place that would let him play his type of game. When his contract is done here, he will likely try to latch onto a contender during the peak of his career and the Nets will be in a position to truly rebuild.
Btw, practically everything that you've been posting have been reaches....very far ones. Lin's going to end up like Steve Nash? First of all Nash is a better player, better shooter, less TO prone etc. and he had a much better supporting cast, there are no parallels between the two. Lin might become an all-star if he plays to his potential but no way will contend for MVP, especially on a team that will NOT make the playoffs.
I kind of agree that GoodDayLA is probably trolling or just weird, but I actually think Nash is a little overrated. He was a good passer and scorer but he literally played no defense. Lin is a similar player although a much better athlete and a vastly superior defender. He just lacks Nash's consistent shot (or at least historically he has).
Maybe I have drunk the Kool-aid, but I don't see Lin leaving in 2 years. I have never seen him more comfortable and confident.
And it's not random. I can't think of a coach Lin would be as comfortable with as Atkinson or a GM whose approach Lin would support as much as Sean Marks.
Nets were one surprising Dwayne Wade decision away from getting Tyler Johnson and we all can see what a big difference that would have made.
Next summer looks to be a much more promising offseason to nab FAs because the salary cap won't be going up by as much.
it just takes a couple of FAs deciding to come to Brklyn
Prokorov wrote: i think this is really off. i mean... you basically have 9 guys scoring double figures. when was the last time a team even had 5 or 6 guys do that?
Several things...
First, I never said that I expected all of them to reach their maximums. In fact, in the case I chose to use as a relevant example, I assumed that guys would hit the minimums, I projected. I never said that I expect every person to hit their maximums. I included ranges because I can see some players be at the suggested minimums while others are at a maximum.
In short, I don't have nor expect 9 players to score double-digits. I do think 5-6 guys can.
I don't like dealing with absolute fixed numbers because it's impossible to perceive and account for all of the context that goes into a game. That's why I stick to ranges.
Second, if we go with the minimum range, there is there is one 19-21ppg scorer in Brook, one 15-17 ppg scorer in Lin, two 12-15ppg scorers in Bogs and Skil, and Vazquez if healthy could get 10ppg.
Each of these players hit these very numbers in their last season. I don't know why you see this as such as preposterous thing.
Maybe Vazquez is a stretch but even he averaged 9.8 and 9.6ppg respectively in each of the last two healthy seasons.
Third (and most importantly), you asked when is the last time 5-6 players on a team have scored in double figures. Have you even done the research to answer your own question or did you just assume that research would yield no relevant examples?
I went to the teams Atkinson and Marks have talked about emulating: Hawks and Celtics. (I haven't even looked at any other teams in the league yet.)
Spoiler:
Side note: Even though I'm positive the Spurs would yield similar results, I already know that people would say any comparison to them isn't worth it because they're an anomaly.
Interestingly enough, even during Stevens' first season as head coach which was also a bad season for the Celtics with a record of 25-47, they still 7 guys (NOT including Rondo) who averaged 10+ppg and another player who was 8.7ppg.
I only checked the last three seasons of each team since those are most relevant play-style wise as well as historically:
2015-16 Boston Celtics: 1) Isaiah Thomas - 22.2ppg 2) Avery Bradley - 15.2ppg 3) Jae Crowder - 14.2ppg 4) Evan Turner - 10.5ppg 5) Jared Sullinger-10.3ppg 6) Kelly Olynyk-10.0ppg Marcus Smart-9.1ppg
2014-15 Boston Celtics (40-42): *1a)Isaiah Thomas - 19.0ppg (Celtics gave up Thornton and acquired Isaiah in a deal) *2a) Jeff Green - 17.6ppg (Celtics traded Green for Tayshaun Prince) 3) Avery Bradley - 13.9ppg 4) Jared Sullinger - 13.3ppg 5) Brandon Bass - 10.6ppg 6) Kelly Olynyk - 10.3ppg 7) Tyler Zeller - 10.2ppg 8) Evan Turner - 9.5ppg 9) Jae Crowder - 9.5ppg *1b) Marcus Thornton - 8.9ppg *2b) Tayshaun Prince - 8.4ppg
2013-14 Boston Celtics (25-57) 1) Jeff Green - 16.9ppg 2) Avery Bradley - 14.9ppg 3) Jordan Crawford - 13.7ppg 4) Jared Sullinger - 13.3ppg 5*) Rajon Rondo - 11.7ppg (Traded to Dallas for Jae Crowder) 6) Brandon Bass - 11.1ppg 7) Jerryd Bayless - 10.1ppg 8) Kelly Olynyk - 8.7ppg
2015-16 Atlanta Hawks (48-34): Paul Millsap - 17.1ppg Jeff Teague - 15.7ppg Al Horford - 15.2ppg Kent Bazemore - 11.6ppg Dennis Schroeder - 11.0ppg Kyle Korver - 9.2ppg
2014-15 Atlanta Hawks (60-22): Paul Millsap - 16.7ppg Jeff Teague - 15.9ppg Al Horford - 15.2ppg Demarre Carroll - 12.6ppg Kyle Korver - 12.1ppg Dennis Schroeder - 10.0ppg
2013-14 Atlanta Hawks (38-44): Al Horford - 18.6ppg Paul Millsap - 17.9ppg Jeff Teague - 16.5ppg Kyle Korver - 12.0ppg Demarre Carroll - 11.1ppg Lou Williams - 10.4ppg Mike Scott - 9.6ppg
I haven't even looked at any other team yet. I could if you want to but I think the point stands that it's quite easy to find teams that do have at least 5-6 players scoring 10ppg or more.
Spoiler:
and certainly dont see foye or whitehad scoring double figures in just 15 minutes. thats like 26 points per36. i think those guys are all capable of those totals in a 28+ minute role. but your not gonna have 9 guy all play that much.
That was a mistake with Whitehead. Again, not only was the minimum of 8ppg my expected range, but in addition to that I meant to say Foye OR the totality of players who take up the volume of that teriary PG/backup SG role.
But that's neither here nor there since this wasn't a main part of my argument.
Are last year's Hornets one of these teams? I didn't look at the spoilers. Great post.
Like I said in the post, I didn't check other teams lol.
